Baladi - What am I missing?

Kiadorin

New member
I recently shared a video clip of my dancing with an Egyptian friend and, if I understood correctly, his reaction seemed to be along the lines of "Nice dancing, but clearly not Egyptian." Unfortunately, I was not able to get a clear sense of what it is that I'm missing.

I'd really like to be able to dance in a traditional way -- or at least be aware of what I'm doing differently. I know we have several people who are well-versed in Egyptian style, so I'm hoping that you will be willing to help me. :pray:

Here is the clip in question:
YouTube - Afrah Baladi Improv


Oh, and try to overlook the moments of weird broken-neck posture and chicken-wing arms, please. More interested in style feedback than technique feedback right now. :lol:
 
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Eshta

New member
Hi Kiadorin,

I'm replying because I totally relate to that sense of knowing there's something there just not knowing what it is- it's a common theme in learning this dance:lol:!

I want to start by saying that you dance very nicely, and don't let your friend's less than sizzling review make you feel insecure in any way. I also want to say that I am no expert and am waiting for one of the more seasoned posters to provide you with a better answer than I will give you!

For me, I guess what I notice is the disconnect between the emotion in the song and the emotion in your dancing, and baladi's all about that. I get the feeling you are thinking about the movements, rather than letting them flow to your emotional response of the song. But that could just be the discomfort factor of filming yourself knowing you are going to be asking for feedback on it :) Again, I can relate!

For my own part, retrospectively analysing the various stages of development I had to tackle/am still working on they were/are roughly:
- not comfortable enough with the movement vocab so all energy needs to be focused on execution (don't think this applies to you)

- not hearing the music 'thoroughly' - hard to describe, but can you hear the subtleties sufficiently well to be able to translate them when you dance? The trills in the accordion v long clear notes? the pauses? The characteristics of the different instrumentation?

- not understanding the music 'thoroughly' - there are so many layers, but remember that baladi is often improvised music, in order for those musicians to actually function together they give each other clues as they play, can you hear them, do you know what they mean, do you understand the underlying 'structure' of the song?

- not understanding the cultural significance/the emotion of the music: lumping these together although each is worthy of its own paragraph. aaakk, how to explain this one! In the context of baladi, the song usually goes through several stages, and in it's home context, the audience knows and appreciates this, anticipating it. The youtube clip of fifi was one of the best examples I could find a while back, but watch her face (for the emotion) and the audience response



Finally, did you really love love love the song you picked to dance to?

Just some pointers, but I think you were really brave to ask for the feedback, and good luck!
 

Samira bint Aya

New member
Kiadorin,
First of all congratulations for the beautiful dancing! :clap: You chose one of my most favorite songs. I have also attempted to dance baladi to this, but it ended in a miserable failure!
I am not an expert, just a beginner dancer and clearly not as advanced as you. However, a couple of things I noticed in your movements that I found a little out of place for baladi were:

The backbend seemed a little out of place
My impression is that the hands were too expansive and too busy for baladi, and at certain moments they were not “energized” all the way to the fingers
The movements did not flow from each other as we often see in baladi (the end of one movement fusing with the beginning of the next).

Other than that, as Estha was saying, probably what your friend noticed more was the emotional response to the music.

But don’t beat yourself over with this, you are clearly on the right path and you are doing great! :)
 

Samira bint Aya

New member
The youtube clip of fifi was one of the best examples I could find a while back, but watch her face (for the emotion) and the audience response

Estha, the emotional expressions of Fifi in this clip, they are very characteristic of her, aren’t they? And of other Egyptian dancers also.

They remind me a lot of the expressions you often see on female performers here in Greece, in the bouzouki clubs and the more “heavy” oriental-type of music (for lack of a better word) we have here.

They are very appropriate for an entertainer who wants to give the crowd a good time, but I wouldn’t try to emulate them, as I don’t find them necessary unless someone is trying to entertain in that way. (Having said that, I understand that you were probably not suggesting that someone should try to copy her anyway).
 

Kiadorin

New member
Thank you, guys. I really appreciate the responses :)

The emotional aspect is probably at least part of what he was trying to get across, now that I think about it in that light. Reflecting on things, I do remember him once describing a particular American singer as being "like us" because his songs were "so full of feeling" or something along those lines. So I think you're both right about that. :think:
 

Lydia

New member
Hi ..I like it!! I think you are dancing realy nice...but yes must put some feeling in it ...try not to count everything like 4 times r 4 times left enz...let it be ,,playfull ,,a bit....,,streched,, sometimes...like everybody will think you gonna mis the dom,but then you just catch it on time...something like that so it becomes more like dancing. not like a excersise...i hope you understand what i try to say...like when you watch a movie and you already know the end before its there...its a bit to calculated..try to be more free in mix and match your movement...specialy in the beginning its staying a bit to long on the same movement try to be more playfull give more of ,,you,, and dont put yourself in a box feel free and enjoy and make people see you are having a good time.....But realy i like the way you dance its very nice...you just have to bring it to live....keep up the good work! you are doiing great!! Lydia
 

Moon

New member
I must say I liked it Kiadorin :)
I'm no expert but I think what might improve things is not standing with your back towards the audience for so long. It's a very sensitive moment in the music and too bad we can't see your facial expression there. Also your arm movements sometimes seem a bit too "classical". Not sure if it makes sense what I'm saying :think:
 

cathy

New member
I thought you looked very nice and fluid! What is that song?

But yes after really mastering the technique I am gathering what one has to do is let that go on automatic pilot a bit, and kind of "bust loose" or "let go" and concentrate on expressing the feeling of the music for the audience, like you are channelling feeling rather than thinking about either "am I doing this move right" or about what comes next. It is hard! I am really trying to do this myself. But not look like I am trying! That seems to be part of it!

Cathy
 

jenc

New member
OK I've got it now - you stick too closely to the music. you should be performing in harmony, ie not always doing in time etc.. Build in some pauses, swoops etc

But very good none the less
 

Gia al Qamar

New member
I also would like to join the applause here and say that you're a LOVELY dancer with great potential to make an even bigger connection with the music than you already are...and you do it well...your enjoyment is very obvious and I feel that is very important!
One thing that I notice in many "American" style dancers is the choice to make everything 'light' and do much of the hip work on the 'up'...balady is so grounded...make your hip drops solid...keep knees VERY soft and really ground your dancing...light and airy uptop, but grounded to the earth at the same time!
Gia
 

Mya

New member
Hello,

I like it :D
I can't dance beledi yet though heaven knows i want to - i'm so drawn to it!

Someone was asking you earlier if you understand the structure of the song - Hossam Ramzy wrote an articule on Beledi and i think he explains it pretty well, i was able to follow it in my music once i read and understood it.

Here's a link to Shira's website where she has it posted:

"Baladi" by Hossam Ramzy
 

Jane

New member
Beautiful dance! :clap:

I've been working on my Baladi too, so only take this as a fellow student. You are still dancing a bit sophisticated for Baladi. The arms are Sharki: too graceful, too polished and baletic. Beautiful arms I thought, but not really Baladi. Baladi is so powerfully casual. Don't be afraid to pause, especially when the music does. Your dance has a beautiful flow, but maybe try to mix it up with some more pauses, gestures, and accents for texture.

Experts are very welcome to correct me, I'm sure it would help my understanding as well. :pray:
 

anna25

New member
hi kiadorin,

I want to say first that you are a beautiful woman and your movements are very harmonic and fluid, I envy you for that special quality.

I guess jenc and Lydia Dubai are right- people of european or american background often interpetate the music 1:1 instead of playing with it.

Maybe that's because of our cultural or musical background- we feel so obliged to the music, and want to do it "right", instead of thinking that the music is carrying and supporting and underlining our movements.
In egypt, the dancers pay the musicians, and they have to follow along her movements, watch her dancing and keep in touch with her performance.
Listening to a song over and over and interpreting each little sound is not possible if you work like an egyptian dancer.

In my dance, (which isn't at all where I want it to be, since I'm not a pro), I try to interprete the music very freely, sometimes interpreting the rhythm, sometimes interpreting the melody or the general mood of the song, whatever inspires me more.
And I try to think of a little story I want to tell or some picture I keep in mind (for instance dancing for a king or my lover or something, or being the most beautiful dancer ever, or a snake, or having a fire inside me.. just something that makes me want to dance instead of just moving).
 

Kiadorin

New member
Thanks a lot, everyone. You've given me a lot of things to consider and improve upon.

Maybe that's because of our cultural or musical background- we feel so obliged to the music, and want to do it "right", instead of thinking that the music is carrying and supporting and underlining our movements.
In egypt, the dancers pay the musicians, and they have to follow along her movements, watch her dancing and keep in touch with her performance

I never really thought about it that way before, but I think you are right. I've always thought of it as my job to follow the music, not the other way around. Thanks, that helped me understand a bit better.
 

jenc

New member
As a dancer you are one of the instruments playing the music.......... Think harmony...........think counterpoint

PS I wish I knew how to do what I am telling you to do ...lol!!!
 

Kashmir

New member
If I'm not too late (post first then I'll see what everyone else said). Nice dancing - take that as given. Why would I say it wasn't Egyptian?

Arms - at the start far too busy. Egyptians (as a rule - always ready to be broken) don't dance with their arms. Too loose at times. Too fixed at others (Egyptians tend to move through the beledi second rather than hold them still - only recently been able to articulate this as my own students have taken the "don't wave your arms about" advice the same way by removing the life from the wrists and hands)

I liked the way you started with your back to the audience - but you could have started even more low key, with a simple walk.

Use the pauses - you don't need to move continuously. Breathe with the sax. Stop with the end of the breath. Do nothing (lots of Egyptian dancing is do nothing)

More juicy needed. Partly less arms, partly just let your body flow into the music.

If you want to look Egyptian, avoid the "do it on the left side, do it on the right side" pattern. Usually if it is repeated mirrored it will be some distance away and with a different overlay eg hip drops right with one position of arms, hip drops left with a different position.

But well done. And really brave to post it.
 
Hi Kiadorin, I love Afrah Baladi too, very soulfull!!
Thanks for posting the clip as I have learned something from the responses as well.
I think you are a lovely dancer!!
Yasmine
 
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