Group dance routines with teacher?

lizaj

New member
or without?
Do you tend to dance with your students in performance.
Does it depend on venue?
I have heard opinions on both sides? What's yours? And why?
 

Aniseteph

New member
My teacher doesn't perform in the group numbers in our show, not even the beginners. She says it's because the audience should be watching us, not her.

And it means we have to learn things properly. :D :lol:
 

lizaj

New member
My teacher doesn't perform in the group numbers in our show, not even the beginners. She says it's because the audience should be watching us, not her.

And it means we have to learn things properly. :D :lol:

She sounds like me but I hear other opinions and as for me I prefer dancing with a group ( not my class though) than going solo.
 
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Kashmir

New member
I tend not too - unless we are short a dancer or I really, really like the piece.

Why?
  • I often forget the choreography - even my own.
  • I have to work hard not to add flourishes - which isn't fair on the students.
  • I prefer improv.
  • I would hope my technique (and costume) is better than my students and I don't want them to look bad.
  • It is their chance to shine.
  • If I dance with them they are more likely to watch me than really learn the choreography.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Groups

or without?
Do you tend to dance with your students in performance.
Does it depend on venue?
I have heard opinions on both sides? What's yours? And why?



Dear Lizaj,
First, my students do not learn any group belly dance choreographies for stage, because they need to know right from the outset that this is a solo dance. Occasionally both they and I may end up being background do-woppers for other dancers, either as in the introductory piece for a belly dance, or in other kinds of dances.
For example, last Saturday we had a performance in which 3 of my students and another professional dancer were background dancers for a Melaya number, and 3 of my students and I were background, well,.... sitters for a Guedra ritual. ( We wore all black dresses and were covered with black veils and sat in the background clapping, etc.) Both students and professionals in my shows often end up as background people, depending on who is needed where and for what.
Re belly dance, my students learn to solo at student nights and such events, so that when it comes time to go out there and dance professionally, they have the experience already. My beginners learn one choreography, and they understand that the only time we will be doing it in a group is in the classroom.
I know this is an unusual stance, but I believe that they have a better understanding of belly dance as a solo activity this way.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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janaki

New member
Dear Lizaj,
First, my students do not learn any group belly dance choreographies for stage, because they need to know right from the outset that this is a solo dance. Occasionally both they and I may end up being background do-woppers for other dancers, either as in the introductory piece for a belly dance, or in other kinds of dances.
For example, last Saturday we had a performance in which 3 or my students and another professional dancer were background dancers for a Melaya number, and 3 of my students and I were background, well,.... sitters for a Guedra ritual. ( We wore all black dresses and were covered with black veils and sat in the background clapping, etc.) Both students and professionals in my shows often end up as background people, depending on who is needed where and for what.
Re belly dance, my students learn to solo at student nights and such events, so that when it comes time to go out there and dance professionally, they have the experience already. My beginners learn one choreography, and they understand that the only time we will be doing it in a group is in the classroom.
I know this is an unusual stance, but I believe that they have a better understanding of belly dance as a solo activity this way.
Regards,
A'isha

Dearest Aisha,

I am with you on this. This is exactly what I do with my students. Spot light belongs to who ever is the main act (student or teacher). I was a "do-wopper" (LOL) many times. In my opinion there is nothing bad about dancing with students. It is how you assign the parts and how you structure the choreography.
 

jenc

New member
Without student nights (or haflas) the Uk would have no classes. there are no solo jobs in restaurants or on stage. We have just done a performance for charity. everyone had a spot from the beginners up. This one is for the public and in addition for raising probably £2,000 it helps the teacher to get publicity for her classes.

Our teacher danced in quite a few of the dances because of people dropping out. we are not keen on this because she can't remember the choreography and so she put us off!!

She also does a solo number near the end.

The only chance I have to see BD of any quality is to attend this event and also maybe another 2 haflas.

One other local teacher has a troupe from among her advanced students. She always dances with them, but most of this class do not dance. with her However,She valways arranges a public dance either in the park for charity, or this year at a hafla she arranged.
 

lizaj

New member
Dear Lizaj,
First, my students do not learn any group belly dance choreographies for stage, because they need to know right from the outset that this is a solo dance. Occasionally both they and I may end up being background do-woppers for other dancers, either as in the introductory piece for a belly dance, or in other kinds of dances.
For example, last Saturday we had a performance in which 3 or my students and another professional dancer were background dancers for a Melaya number, and 3 of my students and I were background, well,.... sitters for a Guedra ritual. ( We wore all black dresses and were covered with black veils and sat in the background clapping, etc.) Both students and professionals in my shows often end up as background people, depending on who is needed where and for what.
Re belly dance, my students learn to solo at student nights and such events, so that when it comes time to go out there and dance professionally, they have the experience already. My beginners learn one choreography, and they understand that the only time we will be doing it in a group is in the classroom.
I know this is an unusual stance, but I believe that they have a better understanding of belly dance as a solo activity this way.
Regards,
A'isha

Gosh, Aisha that gives food for thought. I really like that idea. Getting away from the standard follow me. I have done a group dance made up of dancers doing little solo star spots but this seems like a good idea especailly to highlight a dancer's skill. Brilliant!And back to the spirit of things.
I wouldn't want to see syncho group dance go--yes it is Western(or Reda!)---as that can be entertaining to our audiences.
 

Aniseteph

New member
I like the sound of A'isha's approach too, but then I'm a belly dance nut! :D I think a lot of students here would be scared off at the emphasis on solo dancing though, even if it is what it's all supposed to be about.

Perhaps it's what Jenc says about the lack of performance opportunities in the UK compared to the US. We don't see belly dancers in restaurants or at parties much (well I never did), so many students/teachers are less about training to professional performance level and more about learning something new and having a bit of fun. Some of our lot need a push to even perform the group numbers, let alone a solo.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Students

I like the sound of A'isha's approach too, but then I'm a belly dance nut! :D I think a lot of students here would be scared off at the emphasis on solo dancing though, even if it is what it's all supposed to be about.

Perhaps it's what Jenc says about the lack of performance opportunities in the UK compared to the US. We don't see belly dancers in restaurants or at parties much (well I never did), so many students/teachers are less about training to professional performance level and more about learning something new and having a bit of fun. Some of our lot need a push to even perform the group numbers, let alone a solo.





Dear Aniseteph,
Rule number one with me is that no student EVER has to perform unless they want to. I have a student who has been with me for about 5 years now and she chooses not to dance in public. this is difficult for me as she has talent, but it is her choice and I have to respect that. For those who want to perform, I have student nights about 3 times a year.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Aniseteph

New member
I think I over edited my post :D. No one is made to do something they really don't want to in public, that is made quite clear from the start. People will perform as part of a group but are not trampling each other in a rush to do solos! But we only have one student show a year anyway - I would love 3 nights! Maybe smaller more informal events like class haflas would be a good way to get people up there.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Students

I think I over edited my post :D. No one is made to do something they really don't want to in public, that is made quite clear from the start. People will perform as part of a group but are not trampling each other in a rush to do solos! But we only have one student show a year anyway - I would love 3 nights! Maybe smaller more informal events like class haflas would be a good way to get people up there.


Dear Aniseteph,
The reason I mentioned it is because I have or have had students who said that their former teachers really tried to pressure them into performing and that they really appreciate it that I do not.
I like the idea of really casual dance nights and that is what we usually call our student nights. People can dance or not, even at the last minute if they so choose since there is no program and only loosely assigned dance slots. We invite the whole dance community and we never know what is going to happen!
Regards,
A'isha
 

cathy

New member
Without student nights (or haflas) the Uk would have no classes. there are no solo jobs in restaurants or on stage. We have just done a performance for charity. everyone had a spot from the beginners up. This one is for the public and in addition for raising probably £2,000 it helps the teacher to get publicity for her classes.

Our teacher danced in quite a few of the dances because of people dropping out. we are not keen on this because she can't remember the choreography and so she put us off!!

She also does a solo number near the end.

The only chance I have to see BD of any quality is to attend this event and also maybe another 2 haflas.

One other local teacher has a troupe from among her advanced students. She always dances with them, but most of this class do not dance. with her However,She valways arranges a public dance either in the park for charity, or this year at a hafla she arranged.

I have seen solo Oriental dance performed in London a few times in the past couple of years--one was at Levantine in Paddington, and several others (very late at night) in the Edgeware Road Arabic section.

Cathy
 

cathy

New member
Dear Aniseteph,
The reason I mentioned it is because I have or have had students who said that their former teachers really tried to pressure them into performing and that they really appreciate it that I do not.
I like the idea of really casual dance nights and that is what we usually call our student nights. People can dance or not, even at the last minute if they so choose since there is no program and only loosely assigned dance slots. We invite the whole dance community and we never know what is going to happen!
Regards,
A'isha

I like this idea of very casual dance nights. If they can decide at the last moment, does this mean no glitzy costumes are required? Do you ever get a live drummer? I especially like this idea because it is so difficult to get experience performing to live music.

Cathy
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Student nights

I like this idea of very casual dance nights. If they can decide at the last moment, does this mean no glitzy costumes are required? Do you ever get a live drummer? I especially like this idea because it is so difficult to get experience performing to live music.

Cathy


Dear Cathy,
I usually tell students who are up in the air about dancing that they can bring a costume or not, but we do also have people who just get up and dance as the spirit moves them. We have occasionally had live drumming and I think even oud and saz a time a or two. There are no hard and fast rules for our casual dance nights and whatever happens is what happens!
Regards,
A'isha
 

jenc

New member
I have seen solo Oriental dance performed in London a few times in the past couple of years--one was at Levantine in Paddington, and several others (very late at night) in the Edgeware Road Arabic section.

Cathy
i think that would be well after my train leaves to go home!!
 

anna25

New member
I really like Aisha's approach, since it really brings out the creative and spontaneus nature of the dance!
But I don't think belly dance always needs to be done solo. There are famous groups and duets, I think there's even a duet of samia gamal and tahia carioca (and they are also what I would call "egyptian style"). And in the old Naima Akef films, she is often dancing in front and there are background dancers moving round her, so there's a solo part but also a group part.
My teacher and others do it like this: there are few school performances (every year or every second year) that cost entrance (the teacher rents a little hall or stage, and it's being filmed) and then every student (that wants to) learns one or more choreographies, which are part of the lessons. the beginners and intermediate ones do group dances or duets, while maybe the very advanced students do a solo and group dances as well. Sometimes the teacher dances a solo or duet, but not in a group, which I think is quite appropriate, since everybody in the public would be: "she really dances better than the others.." and that's not the point, I guess.
What I find positive about this:
- also people who aren't so much into improvisation or solo dance can experience the thrill and fun of dressing up, rehearsing, performing etc.
- it strenghtens the friendship between the students
- they can watch themselves on video after and have some feedback
- all their families can come and watch
- it's quite entertaining for the audience, because it's made professionally with light and costumes and different styles and group sizes
What I find negative about it:
- it's a LOT of work for a very short performance moment
- it's expensive and exhausting for the teacher
- a big part of the class and spare time becomes rehearsing and synchronizing the choreographies
- the students are already happy if they don't make any serious mistakes on stage, but they forget to smile or express anything since they are very concentrated to be synchronized with the others :confused:

So I think you have to choose what is important for your students at the moment: are they ready and willing to be creative themselves, or are they still too shy and will enjoy it more if they can perform together?
And either way there should be enough time to work on the dance, so that there's room for expression and fun on stage.
 

Moon

New member
My teacher usually doesn't perform together with us. I've seen her doing it once with 2 very advanced students, because she was filling in for a student who got ill.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

Dear Anna,
I really like Aisha's approach, since it really brings out the creative and spontaneus nature of the dance!

It can certainly do this or students can dance to a choreography that I taught them or they created.

But I don't think belly dance always needs to be done solo. There are famous groups and duets, I think there's even a duet of samia gamal and tahia carioca (and they are also what I would call "egyptian style").

Yes, in the movies and often there was a story line involved that did not necessarily reflect belly dance, but was something that was about the movie.


And in the old Naima Akef films, she is often dancing in front and there are background dancers moving round her, so there's a solo part but also a group part.

This usually happens again, either as part of the story line in movies or, occasionally in club dancing, there will be a group of do-woppers for the opening dance, who usually are not really doing anything all that complex, to add interest to the opening of the dance.

My teacher and others do it like this: there are few school performances (every year or every second year) that cost entrance (the teacher rents a little hall or stage, and it's being filmed) and then every student (that wants to) learns one or more choreographies, which are part of the lessons. the beginners and intermediate ones do group dances or duets, while maybe the very advanced students do a solo and group dances as well. Sometimes the teacher dances a solo or duet, but not in a group, which I think is quite appropriate, since everybody in the public would be: "she really dances better than the others.." and that's not the point, I guess.
What I find positive about this:
- also people who aren't so much into improvisation or solo dance can experience the thrill and fun of dressing up, rehearsing, performing etc.
- it strenghtens the friendship between the students
- they can watch themselves on video after and have some feedback
- all their families can come and watch
- it's quite entertaining for the audience, because it's made professionally with light and costumes and different styles and group sizes
What I find negative about it:
- it's a LOT of work for a very short performance moment
- it's expensive and exhausting for the teacher
- a big part of the class and spare time becomes rehearsing and synchronizing the choreographies
- the students are already happy if they don't make any serious mistakes on stage, but they forget to smile or express anything since they are very concentrated to be synchronized with the others :confused:

So I think you have to choose what is important for your students at the moment: are they ready and willing to be creative themselves, or are they still too shy and will enjoy it more if they can perform together?


There are many folkloric dances that are in the communal spirit of performing together. We must teach our students to understand belly dance as well as dance it, and the complexities of the dance are better expressed by the solo dancer, and it is very rarely about being synchronized with others.


And either way there should be enough time to work on the dance, so that there's room for expression and fun on stage.

Some people do feel this way and others just like to get up and dance.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
I too like A'ishas approach and we work like this quite a bit in our area.

I do like good performance groups though and for me, the odd group dance or duet breaks up a long line of solo's in stage shows.
The development of dance in theatre means we have the opportunity to experiment more with the dance and include a greater number of people rather than the select few.

I think essentially, solo is what it is about. It is more difficult to achieve a group expression and choreography often tends to be more limited.

There are some groups though whom are very very good and have produced some amazing work.
 
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