KHALED MAHMOUD of Alexandria-Egypt
- Thread starter Talianya
- Start date
Aisha Azar
New member
Vid, etc.
Dear Jenc,
If this is what he asked, this seems reasonable to me. If, on the other hand, he asked her not to share what she learned from him ever, on the net or otherwise, then that is not reasonable as we all would then have nothing to share if everyone followed this policy. I go to workshops to further my own education, as both a performer and instructor. I teach people things that I have learned from various instructors or videos and I tell people where I learned the stuff that is complex o more than fundamental.
Nothing makes me madder than to go to a teacher who teaches a choreography that you PAY to learn and then have that instructor tell you that you can't use it!!! My opinion is that if students paid for it, they bought it and it is their's
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Jenc,
If this is what he asked, this seems reasonable to me. If, on the other hand, he asked her not to share what she learned from him ever, on the net or otherwise, then that is not reasonable as we all would then have nothing to share if everyone followed this policy. I go to workshops to further my own education, as both a performer and instructor. I teach people things that I have learned from various instructors or videos and I tell people where I learned the stuff that is complex o more than fundamental.
Nothing makes me madder than to go to a teacher who teaches a choreography that you PAY to learn and then have that instructor tell you that you can't use it!!! My opinion is that if students paid for it, they bought it and it is their's
Regards,
A'isha
Eshta
New member
Yes but I hope they credit the teacher - I get mad when I see a choreogaphy that has been copied from a workshop I have been to and the teacher hasn't been credited despite the opportunity to do so - it works both ways
!
Aisha Azar
New member
Credit
Dear Eshta,
I know that here in the States, most groups tend to be pretty good about that. I have been to shows where people have credited me and usually it feels pretty nice! Very occasionally the dancers have rather screwed it up and made me feel like crawling under the table. Then, there is the occasional situation where people will actually improve on a choreography. I had this happen with our own Marya and her dance partner once, where they changed a few movements and I thought it made the dance better!! My dance company does not tend to use choreographies by other people. However, we do occasionally use folk dances that have pretty set patterns, such as one Palestinian Debke that we perform.
But, back to the subject of Khaled. I am wondering if he teaches choreographies and let people use them as they will or what. I was not sure from the post by the dancer said that he asked her not to put his dance on the net.
Regards,
A'isha
Yes but I hope they credit the teacher - I get mad when I see a choreogaphy that has been copied from a workshop I have been to and the teacher hasn't been credited despite the opportunity to do so - it works both ways
Dear Eshta,
I know that here in the States, most groups tend to be pretty good about that. I have been to shows where people have credited me and usually it feels pretty nice! Very occasionally the dancers have rather screwed it up and made me feel like crawling under the table. Then, there is the occasional situation where people will actually improve on a choreography. I had this happen with our own Marya and her dance partner once, where they changed a few movements and I thought it made the dance better!! My dance company does not tend to use choreographies by other people. However, we do occasionally use folk dances that have pretty set patterns, such as one Palestinian Debke that we perform.
But, back to the subject of Khaled. I am wondering if he teaches choreographies and let people use them as they will or what. I was not sure from the post by the dancer said that he asked her not to put his dance on the net.
Regards,
A'isha
As a teacher there is no one better. He is kind but demanding. I was very distracted at JoY by all kinds of personal problems and he spotted in a big class that I was not getting something simple and charged over and stayed with me 'til I got it right. "I know you, you can do this!" Hell he must have been so exasperated but he left me with a smile. A lesser teacher would have just let me get on with it.
His technique is lovely, crisp and if a lot little showy, so what..he is an entertainer and I can forgive the talented the me me me on the stage. But he can be very generous to other dancer. I saw him stand back and allow others to shine at the Yorkshire Egytptian Moonlight.
But he isn't for everyone and give me the choice of watching Randa or Djamilla and I am more content. I can't justify it, I am just more at home with a more laid back dancer. That doesn't detract from the fact that others are blown away by him.
There is nothing whatsoever Divaish in his behaviour off stage except that he is a showy dresser and does appreciate the adulation..who doesn't? he is sensitive and intelligent and has done so much for the dancers in this country to inject a lot more Egypt into us.We have a lot to be grateful to him for and I am not quite sure what JoY would be like without him, Mandy!!!
As for the costume, it was a lot better than some others I have seen him wear. Toned down in shape and applique, I thought he looked good although the one I like best is the bronze coloured one he wore last time. I will seek out a photo.
And he was the dancer who finally made the penny drop with me..if a man wants to get on stage to perform oriental dance instead of just teaching or choreographing...why not!
Khaled always shines at Joy. I will always be ever grateful to him for coming to the jewel of Yorkshire, He always says it is like coming home to my family when he comes to JoY- Does this sound like a Diva?
Most people are surprised by his teaching & dancing. See him live & you are glued - what a fantastic dance & showman.
I do have to say the video makes him look bigger than he is.
I made the costume & I am sorry some people did not like it but I do it is not too OTT.I think it is the thing of a man in a 2 piece costume. To be honest I still think Khaled looks best in a White Galabaya & I have told Khaled this but he needs 2 piece costumes for his oriental performances.
Most Egyptian like sparkle & colour
So I will ask the question what should Khaled wear? He will not wear a Galabaya for dance oriental.
Tarik Sultan
New member
I made the costume & I am sorry some people did not like it but I do it is not too OTT.I think it is the thing of a man in a 2 piece costume. To be honest I still think Khaled looks best in a White Galabaya & I have told Khaled this but he needs 2 piece costumes for his oriental performances.
Most Egyptian like sparkle & colour
So I will ask the question what should Khaled wear? He will not wear a Galabaya for dance oriental.
My 2 cents. I saw Khalid live in Cairo and he was very dynamic and charismatic on stage. Not in the same way as Tito, but wouldn't it be horrible if everyone were the same? The great thing about this dance is the opportunity to experience totally different personalities on stage.
He was very regal and dignified, but I will say, that I've never seen a clip on youtube that I feel does him justice. He is a phenomenal dancer and anyone who knows me knows I don't say things like that lightly.
Knowing him personally, he never gave me diva or over blown ego vibes...... I've met other people who I could definitely say that about...... not mentioning any names......
By biggest sticking point with him are his costumes! Like you, I feel he looks best in a galabeya. I saw him way before I ever saw or knew about Tito. It made me want to wear one because he looked so dignified in it.
What should he wear? Okay, here's the thing. His arms are not muscular or even toned. They're very thin. Unfortunately, the rest of his body isn't in proportion. He's not fat, but he does have a paunch. I think what would look best on him is something with sleeves, not too wide and flowing and definitely no veils hanging from them. Nothing off the shoulder, doesn't flatter his shape and draws attention to his weak points.
I would advise him to tone up his body, especially his arms and his mid section. Two pieces would then look much better on him. A one-piece top would look great on him if the design were innovative. It doesn't have to be all the same color. The upper body could be one color and the mid section a different color. I guess the pants are okay. Unlike myself, he has the legs to fill them out, as longs as its not too tight. And not that I've ever seen him do this but just as a general for guys, NEVER EVER WEAR ANY SEE THROUGH PANTS, ESPECIALLY HAREM PANTS!:naghty: Its just the kiss of death for any man. CHEESY! Looks great on women, horrible on men and I still can't figure out why.
Most Egyptian like sparkle & colour
So I will ask the question what should Khaled wear? He will not wear a Galabaya for dance oriental.
My 2 cents. I saw Khalid live in Cairo and he was very dynamic and charismatic on stage. Not in the same way as Tito, but wouldn't it be horrible if everyone were the same? The great thing about this dance is the opportunity to experience totally different personalities on stage.
He was very regal and dignified, but I will say, that I've never seen a clip on youtube that I feel does him justice. He is a phenomenal dancer and anyone who knows me knows I don't say things like that lightly.
Knowing him personally, he never gave me diva or over blown ego vibes...... I've met other people who I could definitely say that about...... not mentioning any names
......By biggest sticking point with him are his costumes! Like you, I feel he looks best in a galabeya. I saw him way before I ever saw or knew about Tito. It made me want to wear one because he looked so dignified in it.
What should he wear? Okay, here's the thing. His arms are not muscular or even toned. They're very thin. Unfortunately, the rest of his body isn't in proportion. He's not fat, but he does have a paunch. I think what would look best on him is something with sleeves, not too wide and flowing and definitely no veils hanging from them. Nothing off the shoulder, doesn't flatter his shape and draws attention to his weak points.
I would advise him to tone up his body, especially his arms and his mid section. Two pieces would then look much better on him. A one-piece top would look great on him if the design were innovative. It doesn't have to be all the same color. The upper body could be one color and the mid section a different color. I guess the pants are okay. Unlike myself, he has the legs to fill them out, as longs as its not too tight. And not that I've ever seen him do this but just as a general for guys, NEVER EVER WEAR ANY SEE THROUGH PANTS, ESPECIALLY HAREM PANTS!:naghty: Its just the kiss of death for any man. CHEESY! Looks great on women, horrible on men and I still can't figure out why.
Caroline_afifi
New member
It is not an easy job to balance a persons needs and tastes.
I think your stuff generally looks OK on him.
You dont make the trousers too tight and they seem less OTT than some of his other creations. The one in the Vid clip here (green one) is actually a very nice design. I personally like less neon, but that is my taste and not his.
He is the one who is wearing the costumes and expressing himself.
I dont know the answer really. There seems to be a real dliemma when it comes to mens costumes.
I am not sure he need to show his belly? I think he just perhaps thinks he needs to?
I think if anyone can get something right for him then it is you, because you have the right balance of understanding when designing.
You just need to manipulate him around to your way of thinking a little more and leave some of the other designers alone for a while! :lol:
Aisha Azar
New member
Costuming Khaled
Dear Mandy,
I was not glued when I saw him dance live, nor am I impressed with his dance on video, but I agree that video is not the best medium for really studying a dancer. There is just something missing with Khaled, even in live performance. He may be a nice man and not a diva, but his dancing.... I don't know, maybe he has not been dancing long or something. There is a shallowness there.....
Video puts 10 pounds on people automatically, but he is my male twin when it comes to body. We are both paunchy, and we both have to be sure to costume in order to try to camoflauge that. First, you might try richer colors with more depth, which will give him a more flattering skin tone as well as add intensity to his costumes. Neon and lighter colors tend to wash out under lights and reflect light in such a way as to look bigger, especially anything shiny. Second, it might make a difference to stay away from straight lines below the bust line and above the hip line. These tend to make the middle of the body look VERY distended and so in your face if the body is not pretty toned. In other words,maybe you could use some diagonal divides or add appliques to the garments above the garment's hip line in order to create a belt line that does not cut him straight across and the same with the crop top or whatever he is wearing. Also, give him garments that somehow create more coverage for his butt, which is kind of saggy looking or something.
Too bad he won't wear things like a catsuit that would give some support to his middle section. This is one reason why I wear dresses most of the time now instead of two piece bra/belt looking things. I no longer weigh 130 pounds and do not have the body for it. Maybe someone could gently tell him this stuff.
BTW, this is an observation when I go out shopping with my Arab girlfriends. I have noticed that often it has very little to do with how clothing looks ON them, but whether or not they LIKE the clothing, and whether or not they think its stylish. For example, some of them have very big, thick heavy calves, but they would not be caught dead in a long skirt. Others are barrely around the middle, but still insist on wearing very skin tight cocktail dresses to afternoon parties. It is as if it matters less how they LOOK in the dress than if they think the dress is pretty or fashionable. I think it is a different way to look at fashion than the usual western attitude of "does this look good on me?". I also know Arab girls with impeccable taste in the western sense, but often the idea and view of clothing seems a little different than the western view. Perhaps this is also true with Khaled. Whether I like his dancing or not, I would still love to see him in something really flattering on him. ( I think the same thing about Randa, whom I adore but would love to lock her costumer in a dark closet so she can't sew any of those hideous things she puts Randa in!!!!)
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Mandy,
I was not glued when I saw him dance live, nor am I impressed with his dance on video, but I agree that video is not the best medium for really studying a dancer. There is just something missing with Khaled, even in live performance. He may be a nice man and not a diva, but his dancing.... I don't know, maybe he has not been dancing long or something. There is a shallowness there.....
Video puts 10 pounds on people automatically, but he is my male twin when it comes to body. We are both paunchy, and we both have to be sure to costume in order to try to camoflauge that. First, you might try richer colors with more depth, which will give him a more flattering skin tone as well as add intensity to his costumes. Neon and lighter colors tend to wash out under lights and reflect light in such a way as to look bigger, especially anything shiny. Second, it might make a difference to stay away from straight lines below the bust line and above the hip line. These tend to make the middle of the body look VERY distended and so in your face if the body is not pretty toned. In other words,maybe you could use some diagonal divides or add appliques to the garments above the garment's hip line in order to create a belt line that does not cut him straight across and the same with the crop top or whatever he is wearing. Also, give him garments that somehow create more coverage for his butt, which is kind of saggy looking or something.
Too bad he won't wear things like a catsuit that would give some support to his middle section. This is one reason why I wear dresses most of the time now instead of two piece bra/belt looking things. I no longer weigh 130 pounds and do not have the body for it. Maybe someone could gently tell him this stuff.
BTW, this is an observation when I go out shopping with my Arab girlfriends. I have noticed that often it has very little to do with how clothing looks ON them, but whether or not they LIKE the clothing, and whether or not they think its stylish. For example, some of them have very big, thick heavy calves, but they would not be caught dead in a long skirt. Others are barrely around the middle, but still insist on wearing very skin tight cocktail dresses to afternoon parties. It is as if it matters less how they LOOK in the dress than if they think the dress is pretty or fashionable. I think it is a different way to look at fashion than the usual western attitude of "does this look good on me?". I also know Arab girls with impeccable taste in the western sense, but often the idea and view of clothing seems a little different than the western view. Perhaps this is also true with Khaled. Whether I like his dancing or not, I would still love to see him in something really flattering on him. ( I think the same thing about Randa, whom I adore but would love to lock her costumer in a dark closet so she can't sew any of those hideous things she puts Randa in!!!!)
Regards,
A'isha
Last edited:
gisela
Super Moderator
When I took a workshop from him he let us videotape (with him! most teachers doesn't even want to be on the tape) for our own use but he also asked us NOT to put it on YouTube. He didn't tell us not to teach or perform his choreo. I even took a workshop with Fereshteh teaching Khaled's choreography and she said never, ever to use it WITHOUT crediting him, sooo... he is fine with us using his choreos if we credit him.
Hope that makes it clearer
Gisela
Last edited:
Aisha Azar
New member
Khaled etc.
Dear Gisela,
Yes, that makes sense. I also let people videotape me in class and just ask them not to sell the video or put it on the net, for purposes of legal protection. Depending, I sometimes ask the videographer to sign something saying they will not sell or broadcast because in the U.S., in the legal world, the copyright does belong to them and not me, which I do not feel comfortable with. I do not teach choreographies except rarely, so the problem is not a matter of crediting or not crediting in my case. I know that many teachers are very uptight about the video thing and while I can see why, I am usually more relaxed about that, especially in the case of the sponsor videoing, as long as I am covered on all counts legally. ( This can get quite complicated with music rights, video copyright, etc.)
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Gisela,
Yes, that makes sense. I also let people videotape me in class and just ask them not to sell the video or put it on the net, for purposes of legal protection. Depending, I sometimes ask the videographer to sign something saying they will not sell or broadcast because in the U.S., in the legal world, the copyright does belong to them and not me, which I do not feel comfortable with. I do not teach choreographies except rarely, so the problem is not a matter of crediting or not crediting in my case. I know that many teachers are very uptight about the video thing and while I can see why, I am usually more relaxed about that, especially in the case of the sponsor videoing, as long as I am covered on all counts legally. ( This can get quite complicated with music rights, video copyright, etc.)
Regards,
A'isha
Khaled does not mind any one using or teaching his choreographies. He just does not want them on the net. On a couple of occasions Khaled turn up to teach a workshop & people have complained they have already learnt the choreography from the net.
Thank you Caroline you under stand just what I am saying. It is not easy to balance a person’s needs and tastes.
The colour choice was mine on both of Khaled’s costumes I have made him. The first costume was brown/bronze with a belt on a diagonal but he wanted something different & brighter this time. The costume did look neon on stage & in the video but it is a deep Jade colour. I think the belt should be low to give better bum coverage but Khaled thinks this looks like a skirt. Khaled got a catsuit & that doesn’t work. Khaled knows what he wants & he should be allowed to wear what he wants - it is him wearing it.
The point I am trying to make is Khaled is happy with his body & costumes. This dance is about self expression right down to what people wear. I can accept people saying his dancing or costumes are not to their taste but what gives anyone the right to tell anyone what to wear & what they should look like. Also what kind of message are we sending out to people if we only allow dancers to perform that have the perfect body shape, Khaled knows some people do not like his dancing but like he says they do not have to watch.
Raqia Hassan commented at JoY how good Khaled’s technique & dancing is.
I do not normally allow taping at JoY but this time I said alright. This post will remind me to say no in the future. I have always said this dance is best enjoyed live.
Thank you Caroline you under stand just what I am saying. It is not easy to balance a person’s needs and tastes.
The colour choice was mine on both of Khaled’s costumes I have made him. The first costume was brown/bronze with a belt on a diagonal but he wanted something different & brighter this time. The costume did look neon on stage & in the video but it is a deep Jade colour. I think the belt should be low to give better bum coverage but Khaled thinks this looks like a skirt. Khaled got a catsuit & that doesn’t work. Khaled knows what he wants & he should be allowed to wear what he wants - it is him wearing it.
The point I am trying to make is Khaled is happy with his body & costumes. This dance is about self expression right down to what people wear. I can accept people saying his dancing or costumes are not to their taste but what gives anyone the right to tell anyone what to wear & what they should look like. Also what kind of message are we sending out to people if we only allow dancers to perform that have the perfect body shape, Khaled knows some people do not like his dancing but like he says they do not have to watch.
Raqia Hassan commented at JoY how good Khaled’s technique & dancing is.
I do not normally allow taping at JoY but this time I said alright. This post will remind me to say no in the future. I have always said this dance is best enjoyed live.
Tarik Sultan
New member
Well as I said, I for one think that he's a terrific dancer. As I said, I've seen him live, so I know how good he is. I just haven't seen anything on youtube that shows him at his best, but then again what can you expect from videos that are only a few minutes long?
As for his costuming and body type..... ? Yes, he certainly has the right to do as he pleases, but I just feel it detracts from his show. Its not exactly like I've got the body of Adonis looking down on him. I love my body, but when it comes to dancing, I have to show myself at my best. I guess part of the reason is that I depend greatly on the general public. I dance in clubs and private parties on a weekly basis and so I have to be aware of the aesthetic of the greater society. A lady who wants a dancer for her bridal shower or birthday wants someone who is at least in shape. I have the tendency to have a bit of a paunch and believe me, I've had it called to my attention in very crude ways during my performances. People are just not always nice or tactful, especially once they've had a few drinks.
Khaled on the other hand dances primarily in the context of seminars and festivals. I think we can get away with more when it comes to body image because we the audience care more about the dance itself than anything else, so we are very accepting. But understand, once you move out of that environment, you have to fit the standards of the larger society. This is why I spend the time going to the gym to tone up. It doesn't matter how good you are, sometimes how you look is what will determine whether you get a job or not. No one is saying that's the way it should be, but that's the way it is. My strategy has been to bait and switch. Show up looking like what they expect, (very superficial), then give them better than what they were expecting. Therefore, I spend the time to get myself in shape, (which has added physical benefits), I costume to flatter my particular body type, while distracting attention from my weak points, and then go out there and knock them dead.
In Khaled's case I think that its a shame that because of his costumes, certain people have an excuse to detract from him. In my mind I'd say take that ammunition from them. He can still be dramatic and over the top as much as he wants to while working to show himself at his best.
Aisha Azar
New member
Khaled
Dear mandyT,
Dear mandyT,
Aniseteph
New member
Why bother to go to a workshop then, if you think you can learn it all off YouTube? <shakes head in disbelief>(Please excuse my WTF? attitude; I'm one of those people who cannot learn a choreography in a workshop to save my life so maybe I'm jealous
. I can't get my head around the idea of going to a workshop just to learn a choreography and so being miffed if you've done it already.)That is a good rule. And a mental image I did not need...
Caroline_afifi
New member
What we wear is an individual choice but I think male dancers like men in general have less options open to them.
I doubt anyone wants to wear a galabiya all of the time, a catsuit may end up looking like a Elvis, two pieces may end up looking like a male version of a womens costume, too much diamonte and tight pants can look like Liberace on ice.
Alot of the new costumes for women have no relation to Egypt or the Middle East, can men have this freedom too?
What's a man to wear?
we need a thread of various costumes and styles worn by men.
I did try once but no one was interested at that time.
I doubt anyone wants to wear a galabiya all of the time, a catsuit may end up looking like a Elvis, two pieces may end up looking like a male version of a womens costume, too much diamonte and tight pants can look like Liberace on ice.
Alot of the new costumes for women have no relation to Egypt or the Middle East, can men have this freedom too?
What's a man to wear?
we need a thread of various costumes and styles worn by men.
I did try once but no one was interested at that time.
Aisha Azar
New member
Males and costuming
Dear Caroline,
Dear Caroline,
lizaj
New member
I have to say that I loved what Ozgen wore in his Romany dance but of course that's not suitable for an oriental dance number and I think Khaled does wear what is appropriate. He puts a lot of thought into what he wears. I like the gelabeyas but I also like some of his 2 pieces. My favourite being the bronze one Mandy made for him and I also like the vest shape top with criss cross.
I think men do indeed have less choice..designers are just getting going on how to dress a male oriental dancer and its' a learning curve.
I think many of the costumes will resemble what male ice dancers wear.I would hate to see every make dancer wearing what Tito doesand retrict men to some kind straightjacket of costume
But you know,we all have our likes and dislikes on the costumes of female dancers also ! men are not going to get away with criticism any more than we do!
However whatever Khaled wears and wether or not, like many of us ,he may not be perfect in physique ,nothing will detract from his talent and sheer entertainment value let alone his status as a teacher.
And I also agree that Youtube no way refelects his quality as a superb oriental dancer.
I think men do indeed have less choice..designers are just getting going on how to dress a male oriental dancer and its' a learning curve.
I think many of the costumes will resemble what male ice dancers wear.I would hate to see every make dancer wearing what Tito doesand retrict men to some kind straightjacket of costume
But you know,we all have our likes and dislikes on the costumes of female dancers also ! men are not going to get away with criticism any more than we do!
However whatever Khaled wears and wether or not, like many of us ,he may not be perfect in physique ,nothing will detract from his talent and sheer entertainment value let alone his status as a teacher.
And I also agree that Youtube no way refelects his quality as a superb oriental dancer.
Caroline_afifi
New member
:lol::lol::lol:
Aniseteph
New member
I think I've seen that one - is it the top left here?: Khaled Mahmoud Gallery
I've seen him perform several times and practically every time been with friends (dance hobbyists
) who have had trouble getting over the idea of a man dancing like that at all, and often his costumes have not helped them any. Their loss. But IMO no issues with that bronze at all - really really nice. :clap: :clap: :clap:I can only speak as I have experienced and after one occasion when I knew i had danced terribly Khaled was so kind and so understanding he helped me to carry on as a performer-this is not the behaviour of a diva-he hardly knew me but he was kind enough to help me through my crisis moment. i can never be grateful enough for his kindness.May be in the Uk we are not so hung up in appearences as you seem to be in the US and we can appreciate the quality and technique of of dancer even if he/she does not look body perfect.