Obama's president: What does the world think?

[Tarik Sultan]

Yes we also have examples of politicians, academics, lawyers,successful business men/women but the GP loves its' sportsmen and women and entertainers first and formost and again note the %..it's a lot less than yours.

I'm glad to hear that. We have no idea what things are like over there for you guys. England is that place over there where everyone has a funny accent. I'm really looking forward to my visit to the UK next year. I look forward to what I'll be teaching, but even more to what I will learn from the experience and culture. However, I think that to really learn, I need to go back when I'm not working and just observe and experience the culture. Its great to have folks like you to educate us about what life is like in your neck of the woods.

 

[Pirika Repun]

Well if you look at the history of this country you'll see that there was a great deal of discrimination against Asians. The first immigration restraints were aimed at Asians or "The yellow peril" as the called them. There are still people alive who remember that during WW2 all Japanese were rounded up and forced into concentration camps.

Yes. It was and still going on discrimination against Asians. Yes, we look different than both black and white, so it is easy to pick us up and discriminate, also we do not speak any Indo-European language, so I think many people kind of feel funny about it.

About WW2 and Japanese concentration camp. Yes, there is still many people alive and passed down their experiance to next generations. However, when I was brought up some similarities that I can see in Pearl harbor and 911 in other thread in September, all people against my point. My point was if US didn't do anything to either Japan or terrorists, I don't think they attacked Pearl Harbor or WTC. I mean, no body attacked civilian without any reasons. I thought that US made them to attack Hawaii or WTC to make excuse to drop atomic bomb in Japan, and declaration of war against Iraq, Iran and other ME countries. However, people said because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor first, and Japan did terrible things for China and Korea, therefore it was kind of ok to Japan was bombed by Atomic bomb or Japanese-American put into concentration camp. I didn't say Japan was only victim, because Japan did horrible things for other Asian countries. However, no one shouldn't suffer by atomic bomb in any part of the world. I'm pretty sure second and third generation of "Hibakusha" ( atomic bomb victim) also suffered by radiations and other health problems. I'm pretty sure Germans and Italians also put in the concentration camp during the WW2, but they are Europeans, and they are white. They can change their last name, and they can blend in to white Americans, but Japanese can't, because looks totally different and not white anyway. So because of attack on Pearl Harbor and looks totally different than both black and white in the US, I'm pretty sure Japanese suffered more in consolation camp than Germans and Italians. Why US chose Japan? Because Japan is in Asia and island country, and NOT white nation. Not part of Europa, and who cares about yellow people anyway.

As far as racial classifications go Asians are not viewed as a threat the same way people of African descent are. Any white Asian mixture beyond the second generation is usually considered white. Perhaps in their case it a matter of their low numbers. I don't know.:think:

Do you think some Asians who have darker complexion mix with white of second and third generation of will be considered as white? I know some mix of white and Asian children, and some of them close to white, but some of them clearly have Asian figure. I know a lady whose mother is Asian and her father is white, and she has brothers. She looks white and no body even can tell she is mix, however, her brothers totally look Asian. I think if this guy said "I'm white" no body agree with him.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I'm glad to hear that. We have no idea what things are like over there for you guys. England is that place over there where everyone has a funny accent. I'm really looking forward to my visit to the UK next year. I look forward to what I'll be teaching, but even more to what I will learn from the experience and culture. However, I think that to really learn, I need to go back when I'm not working and just observe and experience the culture. Its great to have folks like you to educate us about what life is like in your neck of the woods.

As far as I am aware, you are going to be in Devon? beautiful place and very English but not 'England'. It is a very diverse place.

Why dont you come up to Liverpool, perhaps we could arrange something here for you? at least it will give you an exuse for a visit!!

our accent is even more funny..

 

[lizaj]

As far as I am aware, you are going to be in Devon? beautiful place and very English but not 'England'. It is a very diverse place.

Why dont you come up to Liverpool, perhaps we could arrange something here for you? at least it will give you an exuse for a visit!!

our accent is even more funny..

Americans think we'vegot funny accents! Hey everytime I listen to Judge Judy's clients I crack up!:lol:

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Americans think we'vegot funny accents! Hey everytime I listen to Judge Judy's clients I crack up!:lol:

Our dialect has very strong overtones of Irish and is often mistaken as such,
funny how so many Irish people decended on New York but there is no trace in the accent like there is here.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Yes. It was and still going on discrimination against Asians. Yes, we look different than both black and white, so it is easy to pick us up and discriminate, also we do not speak any Indo-European language, so I think many people kind of feel funny about it.

About WW2 and Japanese concentration camp. Yes, there is still many people alive and passed down their experiance to next generations. However, when I was brought up some similarities that I can see in Pearl harbor and 911 in other thread in September, all people against my point. My point was if US didn't do anything to either Japan or terrorists, I don't think they attacked Pearl Harbor or WTC. I mean, no body attacked civilian without any reasons. I thought that US made them to attack Hawaii or WTC to make excuse to drop atomic bomb in Japan, and declaration of war against Iraq, Iran and other ME countries. However, people said because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor first, and Japan did terrible things for China and Korea, therefore it was kind of ok to Japan was bombed by Atomic bomb or Japanese-American put into concentration camp. I didn't say Japan was only victim, because Japan did horrible things for other Asian countries. However, no one shouldn't suffer by atomic bomb in any part of the world. I'm pretty sure second and third generation of "Hibakusha" ( atomic bomb victim) also suffered by radiations and other health problems. I'm pretty sure Germans and Italians also put in the concentration camp during the WW2, but they are Europeans, and they are white. They can change their last name, and they can blend in to white Americans, but Japanese can't, because looks totally different and not white anyway. So because of attack on Pearl Harbor and looks totally different than both black and white in the US, I'm pretty sure Japanese suffered more in consolation camp than Germans and Italians. Why US chose Japan? Because Japan is in Asia and island country, and NOT white nation. Not part of Europa, and who cares about yellow people anyway.



Do you think some Asians who have darker complexion mix with white of second and third generation of will be considered as white? I know some mix of white and Asian children, and some of them close to white, but some of them clearly have Asian figure. I know a lady whose mother is Asian and her father is white, and she has brothers. She looks white and no body even can tell she is mix, however, her brothers totally look Asian. I think if this guy said "I'm white" no body agree with him.

I don't remember very much about what happened between the US and Japan before the War. I do remember that the US pretty much forced their way into Japan and demanded they trade with us at gunpoint. I think this experience had a huge psychological effect on them and may partially explain their decision to be colonizers in Asia. They felt they had to become just like the Europeans or they would become their victims. If I remember correctly, they had a battle with Russia as well. I'll have to examine that era of history again.

As far as race. The darker Asians like Filipinos don't seem to have a problem mixing in. A half white half Filipino perhaps will stand out as bi-racial, but I don't think the child of a bi-racial and a white parent would be considered anything other than white. The only people where the one drop rule is applied are blacks. Everyone else is more or less accepted into the white world after the second generation of mixing. For example, A'isha is of partial Native American descent. In the US she is just considered White, unless she chooses to personally identify herself as other. However, the people in the street, even if she tells them of her ancestry still consider her white. If it had been an African American ancestor instead of a Native American ancestor, then she would be classified by the government as black. If she told people about it, she would then be considered by them to be a light skinned black woman. Most white people in America with a Black ancestor do not go around telling people. They keep it a secrete.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

As far as I am aware, you are going to be in Devon? beautiful place and very English but not 'England'. It is a very diverse place.

Why dont you come up to Liverpool, perhaps we could arrange something here for you? at least it will give you an exuse for a visit!!

our accent is even more funny..

I'm not sure we could do it at that time. I'm not sure how close they are to each other, but I guess we could talk about another time. At any rate it would depend on Morocco's schedule as well since we will be together on this one.

 

[karena]

Our dialect has very strong overtones of Irish and is often mistaken as such,
funny how so many Irish people decended on New York but there is no trace in the accent like there is here.

Is that true? I sometimes mistake Liverpool accents for Irish and then feel really silly as it is obviously not Irish. But now I feel vindicated!

 

[Shanazel]

Most white people in America with a Black ancestor do not go around telling people. They keep it a secrete.

Yeah, but when some of us find out that a branch of our family started passing a few generations ago, we think about taking out an ad in the hometown paper. Of course, for me it is a source of interest and pride. For my grandfather and his parents, it was a threat of social, economic, and political disaster. I don't think less of them for hiding it until a curious descendant (me) came along tracing family history and made some surprising discoveries. When I asked my dad about it, he laughed and told me I was a very good investigator. My aunt, on the other hand, denies it emphatically. Things are changing, slowly, but I think surely.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Yeah, but when some of us find out that a branch of our family started passing a few generations ago, we think about taking out an ad in the hometown paper. Of course, for me it is a source of interest and pride. For my grandfather and his parents, it was a threat of social, economic, and political disaster. I don't think less of them for hiding it until a curious descendant (me) came along tracing family history and made some surprising discoveries. When I asked my dad about it, he laughed and told me I was a very good investigator. Things are changing, slowly, but I think surely.

I guess it also depends on the community or part of the country you live in. We may be one country, but the attitudes about race are not the same everywhere. I saw a story on Oprah years ago about a family that found out they're of African descent. They didn't think anything of it, so they were surprised when they started getting phone calls from everyone in town wanting to know if it was true. Many of their "friends" stopped talking to them.

My brother lives in the South and he was telling me people down there were fit to be tied when Obama won. People were screaming that this was bullshit. He tells me the racial tension down there is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Other places are more progressive. Where was your family from? Did they have members who didn't pass and if so, have you met them? I have a branch of my family that passed, or I guess is passing. I've thought about contacting them, but I don't know how they would react. I'd like to know exactly what happened from the other side because it did have a very deep impact on my family. I doubt many people feel the need to pass these days. Things are indeed changing.

 

[karena]

Pass? What is this ? I was trying to figure it out from the context but am lost

 

[Shanazel]

Once upon a time, when a light skinned black person decided to live his or her life as white, that person was said to be "passing." I've heard a couple of explanations for this- either that the person was "passing as white" or had passed from his or her family and community, as in "passed away" or dead to. Very, very sad. Horrible that such a thing was necessary.

Tarik, that branch of my family is from Arkansas via Alabama and South Carolina. That's pretty damned Southern- my husband is the first Northerner to marry into my family ever, as far as I know. The white family and black family lived side by side in the country outside a very small town for several generations, and shared the same last name as well as some blood lines. This wasn't unusual in that part of the country where there were large cotton plantations (no, folks, not like Tara in Gone With The Wind), lots of slaves, and freedmen and women chose to adopt their former owner's name as their own. The relationships were simply not acknowledged in polite company and over generations the connections dissolved as people moved away from the immediate area and were mostly forgotten. My aunt taught school in a larger city an hour or so away, and occasionally had black students who shared her maiden name' her father's hometown, and likely an ancestor or two, but she never brought the subject up because she didn't want to distress the kids with a past that was perhaps not exactly filled with golden moments. This is not the aunt, by the way, that absolutely denies the connection. I never met any of these folks, but my mom met a black lady whose husband had the same first, middle and last name as my dad- a family name of some distinction that had apparently been handed down in both lines. The lady and my mom talked about the whole racial thing and came to the conclusion that it simply made no difference to either of them any more and that it was good to be able to talk without the strife of their childhoods.

The world is filled with racists, and perhaps the South has more than its fair share, but there are also a lot of people who know the way they were raised was wrong and who have fought their own prejudices all their lives. They don't get enough credit for the struggle or the triumph over old ideas. My mom and dad both told me they knew they were prejudiced, that they thought it was a bad thing, and told me in no uncertain terms that I was not to carry it into my own generation and beyond.

 

[khanjar]

As far as I am aware, you are going to be in Devon? beautiful place and very English but not 'England'. It is a very diverse place.

Why dont you come up to Liverpool, perhaps we could arrange something here for you? at least it will give you an exuse for a visit!!

our accent is even more funny..

English ? Down here I don't hear much about English-ness, here the natives refer to themselves as Devonshire more than English. Often if a flag is flying, it is more likely to be the Devonshire flag, unless the flag is flying on church property. Cornwall, a bit further down, call them English and to some that is an insult. As to the inhabitants of Devon, I have found them to be easy going, relaxed and largely non judgmental, but a bit archaic in their ways.

Liverpool is about 250- 300 miles North of Devon, a distance, I was going to travel this weekend, but the travelling I didn't fancy with this weather, rain and wind, ugh.

So Tarik and Morrocco are to be in Devon, Torbay I hear, perhaps that might be the first BD event I attend, as Torbay is some 30 miles away. Bideford even, that is 40 miles. I will look out for the event, and make sure I go, that is if I have not been totally put off by then.

 

[khanjar]

Our dialect has very strong overtones of Irish and is often mistaken as such,
funny how so many Irish people decended on New York but there is no trace in the accent like there is here.

Ha, Liverpool has long been known as the unofficial capital of Ireland. The accent there being a very varied mix, many regional dialects of Irish, that mixed with Lancastrian and Welsh, as Liverpool is at the bottom of Lancashire and more or less the top of Wales. Liverpool's past, that of a major trading centre attracted labour from all over, labour which stayed.

If Liverpool was not a major trading centre, the accent would not be so picturesque as it is.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Pass? What is this ? I was trying to figure it out from the context but am lost

Okay, I'll explain. When Europeans came to the New World they encountered Native Americans, whom they enslaved and worked to death. However, in the Caribbean and in places like the 13 colonies and Brazil, there were not enough Natives to meet the demand for cheap labor so Africans were brought in to meet the demand. This resulted in a caste system where the amount of status you held in society was dependent on the amount of European blood you had. A person of pure European ancestry was accorded full rights and privileges, (at least in theory) in society.

However, it wasn't long before the lines between the races began to blur as white indentured servants, overseers and masters started having relations with the slaves around them. Some were mutually consensual relationships, some were forced. However, what happened is that many African family lines eventually got lighter and lighter as each generation received more and more European genes. Quite often you would find situations where the slaves were just as white as their masters to the naked eye. However, because the child took the status of the mother, they remained slaves.

Some masters however, either freed their children or allowed them to work on their day off and save up the money to buy their freedom. This resulted in communities of black and mixed race people who were free. However, even if a person was genetically 70 or even 90% European, that remaining 10 to 30% African ancestry meant they were still considered negroes and treated as such. This is the main reason why the racial classification system was created. In a world where the lines were so blurred, the ruling elite had to figure out who was European and who was of "tainted blood". There was a lot of paranoia over the thought of a person of tainted blood marrying into a family as they thought that it would result in mentally and morally deficient offspring.

Because of the harsh restrictions that they faced even after slavery was abolished many "negroes", who were European in appearance decided to "pass", in other words, pass for white by not telling people who they were. However, if you lived in a small town the only way to do this many times was to abandon all ties with your family. Run away somewhere where no one knew their family background and assumed they were 100% pure european.






I hope this made it easier to understand. Sometimes I fail to realize just how international this forum is and that things I assume are common knowledge are often confusing or not clear to other people.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I'm not sure we could do it at that time. I'm not sure how close they are to each other, but I guess we could talk about another time. At any rate it would depend on Morocco's schedule as well since we will be together on this one.

It is not very close, about 4 hours by car or train.

Of course I remembered you will be with Morrocco!

We can talk about this through PM and with Morrocco to see if it is possible
etc.

I was thinking in terms of a weekend event with you both as part of the Arab Arts events (not festival, as there will not be one next year, only a weekend event in Summer), and perhaps the weekend after your festival in Devon?

Who knows? lets see, there is no harm in exploring.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

English ? Down here I don't hear much about English-ness, here the natives refer to themselves as Devonshire more than English. Often if a flag is flying, it is more likely to be the Devonshire flag, unless the flag is flying on church property. Cornwall, a bit further down, call them English and to some that is an insult. As to the inhabitants of Devon, I have found them to be easy going, relaxed and largely non judgmental, but a bit archaic in their ways.

Liverpool is about 250- 300 miles North of Devon, a distance, I was going to travel this weekend, but the travelling I didn't fancy with this weather, rain and wind, ugh.

So Tarik and Morrocco are to be in Devon, Torbay I hear, perhaps that might be the first BD event I attend, as Torbay is some 30 miles away. Bideford even, that is 40 miles. I will look out for the event, and make sure I go, that is if I have not been totally put off by then.

I knew this about Cornwall but not Devon. Is there any people in Devon who are actually from Devon?
I was meaning quaint with villages and beautiful scenery as opposed to attitude.

If you are travelling up here again, let me know, perhaps we can meet up for a coffee and say hi.

I am teaching at the Sirocco festival in Frome next April.. how close it that to you?

The festival Tarik and Morocco will be at is one called Celebrating dance.
As far as I am aware, it is organised by Afrah Al Khahira who is a really nice women and has been on the dance scene here for many years.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Is that true? I sometimes mistake Liverpool accents for Irish and then feel really silly as it is obviously not Irish. But now I feel vindicated!

Of course it is true!

Our population here is very heavily mixed with Irish as they came to Liverpool during the famine and stayed.
There were also alot of Irish people here long before this as we are just a short distance across the Irish seaand the first point of contact with the UK mainland.

We still have the Liverpool-Dublin Ferry and Liverpool is often reffered to as the Capital of Ireland.

See, you learn something new everyday! :lol:

Did you not notice how we never got touched by the IRA but nearby Manchester and Warrington did? PHEW!

 

[khanjar]

I knew this about Cornwall but not Devon. Is there any people in Devon who are actually from Devon?
I was meaning quaint with villages and beautiful scenery as opposed to attitude.

If you are travelling up here again, let me know, perhaps we can meet up for a coffee and say hi.

I am teaching at the Sirocco festival in Frome next April.. how close it that to you?

The festival Tarik and Morocco will be at is one called Celebrating dance.
As far as I am aware, it is organised by Afrah Al Khahira who is a really nice women and has been on the dance scene here for many years.

It is not so much as attitude down here, they are too laid back for that, but they definitely moving at a different pace than England, England they see as up country, not here. As it is, for work, the pay scales are different than up country, it has always been low paid down here, something which perturbed me when I first come here and asked why take the abuse. The answer to that was, well if we fancy a day at the beach, or an afternoon on the golf course, we do it, work takes second place to life. I after a few months of up country type work vigour gave up and slotted in to Devon life. They may be relaxed down here, but there is one point where they are not, and that is the driving, they are maniacs at it.

Like I said I was to come up north this weekend, I was going to be celebrating my birthday at what I was told was called '' Curry Mile '', my sister said there, that road the ethnicity of the shops and their displays is very reminiscent of Dubai, wonderful !

I shall have to get a car I think before I plan to go up there next, which may be around february, and then perhaps.

Afra, I am aware of, she resides up in Bideford, forty miles from here, I have tried to contact her in my search for a class, her being an ASMED member, but never receive a reply, I expect she is very busy, but maybe at the dance festival, I might get more information.



Edited to add, I have just accessed Afra's site, and according to the upcoming events, it says the festival is on now, not next year, can anyone confirm this ?

Celebrating Dance Festival

To be honest, I thought it was next year, have I fluffed up, is Tarik and Morocco in the UK now ?

 

[Aniseteph]

Edited to add, I have just accessed Afra's site, and according to the upcoming events, it says the festival is on now, not next year, can anyone confirm this ?

I think it's every year Khanjar - I know it's just been on, because someone in our class went and was talking about it on Wednesday.