Workshop level
- Thread starter jenc
- Start date
da Sage
New member
Your best bet is to get confidential feedback from someone who has already taken a workshop from the teacher you're considering.
Many people don't want to post negatives online, because they don't want to look like they are meanies trashing the teacher, or they fear others will accuse them of not being good enough dancers to profit from the workshop.
I have walked into a workshop that was described as being suitable for absolute beginners, and found it completely beyond me in terms of pace and lack of breakdown for new movements. I've also gone in expecting to learn new dance movement, and gotten performance coaching instead.
Dance levels mean very little, without knowledge of the teacher's teaching style and expectations. You can email the teacher, but I think soliciting frank private feedback from other students is also important in helping you make the best choice.
jenc
New member
Thanks, but I would also like some idea of what level 2 is supposed to mean. I know also in addition to the above that many damcers don't think that the requirements apply to them. at the moment we have someone in our level one class, intended for those who have done a year, who took a few lessons once and lived out there for a while.
Kashmir
New member
Depends entirely on the tutor/school - and in a workshop situation sometimes what the level of the class is. What's more, it can depend on the workshop content and style. Say, Level 2 means all basic isolations under control and able to layer shimmies over them plus these combos and these veil moves and able to play triplets with zills while dancing - but the workshop doesn't use shimmy or zills - then you don't need that level of competency in that area.
Best to ask the tutor what skills are required.
karena
New member
Does the event not describe their categories? At JoY, the levels are:
4 is a MASTERCLASS FOR 15 people = advanced/intermediate
teacher/performer level
3 = intermediate – wide, in-depth knowledge assumed
2 = improver – sound knowledge of basics needed
Open level = a new topic or a new twist on an old theme -
suitable for all, basics explained as needed
If the organiser doesn't explain their levels then it would be legitimate question to email and ask and then they would probably amend their information if it had been inadvertently omitted.
Maybe the above are more generic than JoY but I don't know.
4 is a MASTERCLASS FOR 15 people = advanced/intermediate
teacher/performer level
3 = intermediate – wide, in-depth knowledge assumed
2 = improver – sound knowledge of basics needed
Open level = a new topic or a new twist on an old theme -
suitable for all, basics explained as needed
If the organiser doesn't explain their levels then it would be legitimate question to email and ask and then they would probably amend their information if it had been inadvertently omitted.
Maybe the above are more generic than JoY but I don't know.
Aisha Azar
New member
Workshops
Dear Gang,
I agree with daSage that workshop level means very little. That is why I teach beginning and continuing dance only and do not further break down the levels thing. I DO send a detailed syllabus to all sponsors so that they can definitively answer questions about what is going to be taught in the workshop.
In any workshop situation, ideally an instructor can structure the class so that there is something for just about everyone, so levels of expertise do not have a great deal of meaning in that kind of class structure. I also find that often there are beginners who can grasp a concept presented well just as easily as can a seasoned dancer, and that everyone has what I refer to as "nemesis movements", which means that for some reason, they really can't grasp this or that concept yet, or maybe ever. I had a movement I worked on for 15 years and did not master until then. I have one now that I can't quite make work for me, though I completely understand the mechanics. So, the point of my long, rambling, verbose response is that I agree with daSAge and do not see level labeling as really definitive of class material.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Gang,
I agree with daSage that workshop level means very little. That is why I teach beginning and continuing dance only and do not further break down the levels thing. I DO send a detailed syllabus to all sponsors so that they can definitively answer questions about what is going to be taught in the workshop.
In any workshop situation, ideally an instructor can structure the class so that there is something for just about everyone, so levels of expertise do not have a great deal of meaning in that kind of class structure. I also find that often there are beginners who can grasp a concept presented well just as easily as can a seasoned dancer, and that everyone has what I refer to as "nemesis movements", which means that for some reason, they really can't grasp this or that concept yet, or maybe ever. I had a movement I worked on for 15 years and did not master until then. I have one now that I can't quite make work for me, though I completely understand the mechanics. So, the point of my long, rambling, verbose response is that I agree with daSAge and do not see level labeling as really definitive of class material.
Regards,
A'isha
gisela
Super Moderator
If an international teacher (egyptian f ex) came and there was noway of finding out what the level means then I would probably take the workshop regardless of level. At least if I had some basic experience with bellydance. They don't come around THAT often, well not here anyway, so I take what I can get.
If everyone mailed the organisers then maybe that would teach them to be more precise with descriptions the next time or publish it on the website.
Aisha Azar
New member
Workshops
Dear Gisela,
Many times sponsors can not be more precise about what is going to be taught because the instructors have not given them any meaningful info. I have seen flyers that say stuff like " Delicia's Variations and Combinations" as the explanation of what is being taught..... that could mean anything. ( She is not a real teacher. She is what one of my student's husbands calls her. LOL) Instructors have a responsibility to pass on meaningful info to sponsors and sponsors have a responsibility to pass it on to prospective attendees. And always add a "For more information" number or email for those who have in depth questions. Sometimes people who sponsor me put my email on the flyer so people can get in touch with me.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Gisela,
Many times sponsors can not be more precise about what is going to be taught because the instructors have not given them any meaningful info. I have seen flyers that say stuff like " Delicia's Variations and Combinations" as the explanation of what is being taught..... that could mean anything. ( She is not a real teacher. She is what one of my student's husbands calls her. LOL) Instructors have a responsibility to pass on meaningful info to sponsors and sponsors have a responsibility to pass it on to prospective attendees. And always add a "For more information" number or email for those who have in depth questions. Sometimes people who sponsor me put my email on the flyer so people can get in touch with me.
Regards,
A'isha
gisela
Super Moderator
Aisha
Yes I understand it can be difficult. I experienced it myself at some workshops and recently at the nile group. Some descriptions did not come up until late, some were just not at all what later actually was taught( for good and bad) and some were correct but not very informative. I just think the sponsor would know that the community wants more info and insist on a description if there have been many requests at the previous event.
Yes I understand it can be difficult. I experienced it myself at some workshops and recently at the nile group. Some descriptions did not come up until late, some were just not at all what later actually was taught( for good and bad) and some were correct but not very informative. I just think the sponsor would know that the community wants more info and insist on a description if there have been many requests at the previous event.
Aisha Azar
New member
Workshops
Dear Gisela,
In Egypt you do as the Egyptians do and often they have a different view on organizing than the Western one. Actually, throughout the Middle East nearly as I can tell. I am used to it and have come to understand the deeper meaning of "Inshallah"!
However, that does not give license to the instructors and sponsors from the West to behave in the same manner. I would never dream of drastically changing the subject matter in a workshop. I may adjust the material for the level of the class, but if we advertised Exploring Shimmy or Concepts in Taqsim, then that is what we will study.
I agree that sponsors and instructors need to make sure information is available to the dance community, and I do all I can to assist the people who sponsor me to give out good information.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Gisela,
In Egypt you do as the Egyptians do and often they have a different view on organizing than the Western one. Actually, throughout the Middle East nearly as I can tell. I am used to it and have come to understand the deeper meaning of "Inshallah"!
However, that does not give license to the instructors and sponsors from the West to behave in the same manner. I would never dream of drastically changing the subject matter in a workshop. I may adjust the material for the level of the class, but if we advertised Exploring Shimmy or Concepts in Taqsim, then that is what we will study.
I agree that sponsors and instructors need to make sure information is available to the dance community, and I do all I can to assist the people who sponsor me to give out good information.
Regards,
A'isha
lizaj
New member
Even workshop organisers cannot always tell what an instructor will do. We had been told to brings zills to workshops this year and they never got out of the bag. The instructor obviously changed her mind! Also instructors may be forced into that position when they meet their class!
Also an American or Egyptian teachers idea of an "advanced "student is probably very far adrift to what some "advanced" British students perceive.
You're not a beginner, you have a grasp of basics so go with what appeals, ask for more information and read up on the instructor.
I no longer chose anything that provides me with a choreography ( although you often get one anyway!), I go for things that will reinforce my basic technique, give me a new slant on something I already do. I am no longer up to taking on anything brand new, I avoid "the latest thing" and love to try new to me but "with a reputation" teachers.
I was terrified of being with folks like Aida and Raqia and Asmahan but wouldn't have missed it for the world.
It's about time you came to JoY!
Lulu and Lorna and Meissoun as well as regulars such as Khaled,Tracy Kay,Anne , Candi and Maria...you can't go wrong
Also an American or Egyptian teachers idea of an "advanced "student is probably very far adrift to what some "advanced" British students perceive.
You're not a beginner, you have a grasp of basics so go with what appeals, ask for more information and read up on the instructor.
I no longer chose anything that provides me with a choreography ( although you often get one anyway!), I go for things that will reinforce my basic technique, give me a new slant on something I already do. I am no longer up to taking on anything brand new, I avoid "the latest thing" and love to try new to me but "with a reputation" teachers.
I was terrified of being with folks like Aida and Raqia and Asmahan but wouldn't have missed it for the world.
It's about time you came to JoY!
Lulu and Lorna and Meissoun as well as regulars such as Khaled,Tracy Kay,Anne , Candi and Maria...you can't go wrong
da Sage
New member
The only time I have been really angry with a workshop is when the description was very precise, but mostly wrong. That was the fault of the workshop teacher, not the organizers...the workshop teacher sent over her own, beautifully written, but not accurate description of what would be taught and the level.
da Sage
New member
At our biggest local school, the line between levels 2 and 3 is when you can do all the basic hip moves well with any of the 6 or 7 most common zill patterns layered over them. We also do a lot with 3/4 shimmies and undulations over basic moves, and work on our arms, timing, and very basic footwork.
The line between level 1 and 2 is more amorphous - basically, when you have all the basic moves down and can do zills over them, but 3/4 shimmy and undulation layering is less important. It seems like so long ago that I was in level 1!
Safran
New member
There are as many ways to define levels as there are instructors, really. Sometimes it is just classified as beginners/intermediate/advanced, sometimes it is defined by the number of years learned, but lets be honest - neither of give much information. Try contacting the instructor or the workshop organiser. And if that won't work I second the suggestion of just "spying" around asking other people's workshop experiences.
karena
New member
Wow I have never heard of zills being a defining feature of level. Just goes to show how different places can be.
Aisha Azar
New member
Sagat
Dear Karena,
I wonder what the 6-7 most common cymbal rhythms are. I usually only hear native belly dancers play about 2, those being Longa and the back and forth trills or runs or whatever they are called. ( You know, tek-ka tek-ka- tek-ka tek-ka adinfinitum. I teach cymbals about 6 months into a beginning course and work on them periodically after that throughout a dancer's student life. I use them often as a tool to reach people rhythms they will find in music, but not to use as dancers so much. I teach Egyptian and incredible cymbals does not seem to be a trend with them. I play reasonably well myself, but do not have occasion to use them often.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Karena,
I wonder what the 6-7 most common cymbal rhythms are. I usually only hear native belly dancers play about 2, those being Longa and the back and forth trills or runs or whatever they are called. ( You know, tek-ka tek-ka- tek-ka tek-ka adinfinitum. I teach cymbals about 6 months into a beginning course and work on them periodically after that throughout a dancer's student life. I use them often as a tool to reach people rhythms they will find in music, but not to use as dancers so much. I teach Egyptian and incredible cymbals does not seem to be a trend with them. I play reasonably well myself, but do not have occasion to use them often.
Regards,
A'isha
Kashmir
New member
Or don't know themselves. I was shocked once when I realized an international tutor - whose workshops were spelt out in some detail and included a number of choreographies - the night before she was to start didn't not only not have her "choreographies" worked out (that's never a problem for me as I don't attend workshops for choreographies) - but had no idea of her music for most of the workshops.
If the dancer is good and can teach well on the fly that isn't an issue ... but if they're not ....
gisela
Super Moderator
I felt exactly the same in Cairo and defended this standpoint when some people I know complained about the shows not starting on time and lasting until 3 am. We go there to experience the country, culture and people. I have actually a tendency of "Inshallah" already so I could adapt quite easily
.
da Sage
New member
It's a Jamila Salimpour thing, I believe. Our big local teachers are from that line, so it's pretty standard around here (although most name teachers here have done personal studies in the Middle East as well).
One local pattern list is:
3's
3 - 7 - 3
3 - 3 - 7
3 - 5 - 5
3 - 5 - 1 - 3
3 - 1 - 3 - 1 - 3
And the "singles" - the bane of every beginning dancer.
We drill all of these pretty mindlessly in class, but that makes it easier to mix them up later in solo performance.