Helping new students isolate movements

Marya

Member
Hi everybody,

Last night was the first night of my once a year dance class that I teach.

I had a bigger group than usual. I worked hard to personally invite some people and had a press release in the newspaper. I have some dancers with real potential.

However, I had two ladies in their 50's (my age) who just wanted to try the class so paid the drop-in fee. If they come back I will have a lot of work to do with them.

I have seen this issue come up before and have always struggled to find the best way to help students who are so disconnected with their bodies that they cannot move their hips without moving their shoulders and rib cage. it is like their hips are frozen with no ability to have independent movement.

It is hard to put into words, but for example, one lady raised her whole right side, leaning to the left and flailing her arms around to keep her balance in order to accomplish a basic down hip movement. I see this a lot especially in older beginners and am stumped as to how to help. I was wondering if anyone has any tips.

I do the usual, try to explain in words, then stand next to them to demonstrate, have them put their hands on my body to feel what I am doing, try different stances etc, but I think she was really frustrated and not really understanding what I was saying.

Interestingly at the end of class we did a few isolations and she could do hip slides ok, but the posture for the way I do hip slides requires very straight legs with the knees and thighs very engaged (like mountain pose in yoga).

This is just one example to illustrate. We mostly focused on walking and basic Egyptian (hip drops) in class but I can predict she will not be able to shimmy either without her whole body involved. This is not the ordinary beginner issues where there is unfamiliarity with movements but an ability to understand and progress.

So what would you do in this case?

Marya
 

Kashmir

New member
It is hard to put into words, but for example, one lady raised her whole right side, leaning to the left and flailing her arms around to keep her balance in order to accomplish a basic down hip movement. I see this a lot especially in older beginners and am stumped as to how to help. I was wondering if anyone has any tips.
Take tiny steps. When I started teaching I sat down with what I considered to be my basics and teased apart the skills and introduced each one slowly then built on it.

I start getting the students to rock their hips first - feet flat & parallel, knees bent, lift one hip into the armpit then the other. (Visualization string from outside of hip to armpit) If they have trouble with that, then direct them to bend one knee then the other (I don't start with this as I prefer to get them to use lateral flexors and using the knees will be just something they'll need to unlearn).

If this doesn't work, I try and get them to bend sideways while standing. Then I try and hold their torso still while they try again.

Only after they have been doing hip rocks for 3-4 weeks do I bring in a hip lift. Starting by rocking with one foot in front. Then the front foot on demi. ANd then we work on timing and emphasis.
 

Marya

Member
Take tiny steps. When I started teaching I sat down with what I considered to be my basics and teased apart the skills and introduced each one slowly then built on it.

I start getting the students to rock their hips first - feet flat & parallel, knees bent, lift one hip into the armpit then the other. (Visualization string from outside of hip to armpit) If they have trouble with that, then direct them to bend one knee then the other (I don't start with this as I prefer to get them to use lateral flexors and using the knees will be just something they'll need to unlearn).

If this doesn't work, I try and get them to bend sideways while standing. Then I try and hold their torso still while they try again.

Only after they have been doing hip rocks for 3-4 weeks do I bring in a hip lift. Starting by rocking with one foot in front. Then the front foot on demi. ANd then we work on timing and emphasis.

This sounds like a good exercise. During those three or four weeks you are using this exercise to build up to hip drops, what else do you do?

I start with posture and walking and the hip drop before moving on to shimmies, arm movements etc.

How do you keep your students engaged through exercises designed to build skills but that aren't really dance movements.

Marya
 

Kashmir

New member
This sounds like a good exercise. During those three or four weeks you are using this exercise to build up to hip drops, what else do you do?

I start with posture and walking and the hip drop before moving on to shimmies, arm movements etc.

How do you keep your students engaged through exercises designed to build skills but that aren't really dance movements.

Marya
I'd disagree that a hip rock isn't a "dance movement". When I introduce each new move I show them what they will be working on and how it fits into a dance - eg with the hip rock I show them a shimmy and a walking shimmy and hip drops and lifts. They also spend some time interpreting music with just a hip rock - slow, fast, sharp, soft etc.

I introduce two-three new things each week and build on the previous weeks moves - spiral curriculum approach. Each week there is also a dance section - usually a very simple improv exercise based on what they have been doing, sometimes a follow the bouncing butt session (with me trying hard to keep to what they should be able to do).
 

KuteNurse

New member
Also remember that your student/s may be nervous because it is their first class and they can't relax. Give them time to get comfortable with the whole concept of BDing. Good luck with your class.
 

Salome

Administrator
I, occasionally, have had people sit or even lay to work on an isolation when it is a major challenge for them. Allowing gravity and contact to do part of the work can really spark a connection for some folks until they graduate into standing in it.

If she sat in a chair, normal sitting posture, contact with the arm rests, back against the chair, feet flat... Concentrated on keeping her body in contact with all those points in the chair and "lifted", say, her right hip. Her bum would never leave contact with the chair seat, but you can totally and clearly feel the lift. I've never used a chair in class for someone, but I have had them sit on the floor, with their back against the wall and arms in contact also.
 

Kashmir

New member
I, occasionally, have had people sit or even lay to work on an isolation when it is a major challenge for them. Allowing gravity and contact to do part of the work can really spark a connection for some folks until they graduate into standing in it.

If she sat in a chair, normal sitting posture, contact with the arm rests, back against the chair, feet flat... Concentrated on keeping her body in contact with all those points in the chair and "lifted", say, her right hip. Her bum would never leave contact with the chair seat, but you can totally and clearly feel the lift. I've never used a chair in class for someone, but I have had them sit on the floor, with their back against the wall and arms in contact also.
Yes, sitting can be useful. For hip slides I sometimes use the doorway as well (arms braced, tap each side)
 

Marya

Member
Kashmir and Salome

I am curious about this technique of using only the muscles in the upper body (waist area) (sorry about imprecise language) to generate the hip drop movement.

I use a combination of the thigh pushing back and up and upper body muscular contraction. sometimes depending on context the hip drop is generated more with lower body movement. All offer a slightly different "look".

Thanks for the tips, I will try them out. I have never had a teacher use these exercises, nor have i ever had a teacher that emphasized generating this movement with only the contraction of those muscles in the waist area.

Have either of you ever used a chair or barre and asked the students to hold on and then lift the knee of the action leg up and then had them do hip lifts and drops? (hope that makes sense) I have problems with my SI joint and doing it this way with my leg unsupported hurts sometimes so I tend not to use it for teaching anymore. My studio doesn't have a barre in it either.

Most of my students have little knowledge of anatomy and mine while getting better is basic as far as muscles go so I tend to use the point method. I point to my body and say I am contracting these muscles and then releasing, or something like that.

Marya
 

Kashmir

New member
Have either of you ever used a chair or barre and asked the students to hold on and then lift the knee of the action leg up and then had them do hip lifts and drops? (hope that makes sense) I have problems with my SI joint and doing it this way with my leg unsupported hurts sometimes so I tend not to use it for teaching anymore. My studio doesn't have a barre in it either.

Most of my students have little knowledge of anatomy and mine while getting better is basic as far as muscles go so I tend to use the point method. I point to my body and say I am contracting these muscles and then releasing, or something like that.
I've only a small studio with limited vertical surfaces (it's fitted in under the roof) so while I'd like a barre I also like to use the wall occasionally and decided against it. A barre would also frighten off my normal clientale! I sometimes demonstrate the leg in the air version - usually as a threat to someone who wants to use the heel of the "action leg" to generate the movement. But unless they already have good abs and balance it is counter-productive - I keep a couple of fat book for padding instead.

I don't expect my students to know anatomy. I also point but occasionally label - often just with imprecise layman's language when it doesn't matter. The only one I try not to use is "stomach muscles" - no time for processing chyme in class. :D
 

Salome

Administrator
I am curious about this technique of using only the muscles in the upper body (waist area) (sorry about imprecise language) to generate the hip drop movement.

I use a combination of the thigh pushing back and up and upper body muscular contraction. sometimes depending on context the hip drop is generated more with lower body movement. All offer a slightly different "look".

I do the Leg driven type of Turkish hip lifts and drops, not the Egyptian contraction variety and that's what I teach also. But I still think the sitting method is helpful. Breaks those hips loose and builds that mind body connection with the task.

Most of my students have little knowledge of anatomy and mine while getting better is basic as far as muscles go so I tend to use the point method. I point to my body and say I am contracting these muscles and then releasing, or something like that.

I use the point method too! I totally agree that anatomy terms are unfamiliar to most and thus do not serve the purpose of using them during breakdown of movement.
 

Jane

New member
I also have used the sitting technique for students who have trouble finding their parts.

Not all isolation issues are completely mind based, I think part of the problem is a weak core/center. If a student hasn't got the strength to stabelize a group of supporting muscles, the movement itself won't be clean and strong.
You might want to try having them use a sturdy chair as a barre while building up balance and core strength. Many senior fitness classes incorporate a chair option for stability.

Good luck with your classes, I'm sure they'll be great!
 

Zanbaka

New member
Hi Marya,

Congrats on the big class for the New Year and all the advice so far is great!

I’ve taught all ages and abilities and sometimes it can be so difficult to foster certain isolations in students that don’t have a whole lot of movement experience…. Down hips especially, where the movement goes against one’s natural carriage of weight and can feel very awkward at first.

I think the most important elements for executing (any) isolations are strength, control, developing muscle memory, and flexibility in the joints. If you’re missing just one piece of the equation, the isolation will become more difficult. Especially in bellydance, we’re oftentimes contracting muscles that are in close proximity to the joint which we want to remain relaxed and flexible in. In the learning process it sometimes helps students to envision a relaxed joint…. like a well oiled hinge, so that the muscle contraction doesn’t “lock up” the body. I call this the concept of contradictory movement… if students know that they’re up against, I feel they’re most likely to overcome it ;)

With basic flat footed hip isolations, whether they’re driven by the obliques, glutes, legs, or a shift of weight; students should focus on flexibility in the ankles, knees, and hips. My preferred method for improving this is active flexibility exercises: very slow, controlled, and mindful isolations, where the flexibility isn’t forced as in ballistic exercises (bad!). Slow versions also develop muscle memory, control and strength… so it’s like multi-tasking exercise. This combined with some deep stretches during a cool down can be very beneficial.

For down hips, and I apologize if my understanding of the dance vocabulary is different, you mean a downward accent with both feet flat on the floor? I use mostly the obliques to power
this kind of an isolation and I would probably wait to teach this to a student until they have a good understanding of Up Hips (leg or glute powered). Once they have that down, I would start with a really exaggerated version with knees alternating from soft to bent (never hyperextended) and then adding a downward hip on the same side of the body as the bent knee, contracting the oblique on the opposite side. Hip reaches down to the floor, which creates length between the top of the “hip bone” and the lowest rib. Once they master that, I have them reign the movement in so that knees are flexing within a reasonable range with good lower body posture and then move onto isolated upper body posture.

My hats off to you for ensuring that everyone in your class is doing movements correctly and taking one on one time to work with them. Honest affirmation that it’s in everyone’s best interest in class to work at their own pace and within their limitations is key ;)

Best, ~Zanbaka
 

Marya

Member
Hi Marya,

Congrats on the big class for the New Year and all the advice so far is great!

snip snip


For down hips, and I apologize if my understanding of the dance vocabulary is different, you mean a downward accent with both feet flat on the floor?

My hats off to you for ensuring that everyone in your class is doing movements correctly and taking one on one time to work with them. Honest affirmation that it’s in everyone’s best interest in class to work at their own pace and within their limitations is key ;)

Best, ~Zanbaka

Hi Zanbaka,

Thanks for the tips. In the original post I am referring to hip drops with an accent on the down in a stance with one leg lifted with bent knee on the ball of the foot and the other leg providing support. In my curriculum provided by Aisha Azar this is a Basic Egyptian, but I know that term is a different move in other styles so I frequently end up using the term hip drop instead.
 

Zanbaka

New member
Hi Marya, Ah! I see..... sorry for the confusion ;)

Do you do this movement as a weight-shifting movement (pushing off the unweighted foot on ball), or more of a core isolation (powered by the glutes and or obliques)?

Best, ~Zanbaka
 

Marya

Member
Hi Marya, Ah! I see..... sorry for the confusion ;)

Do you do this movement as a weight-shifting movement (pushing off the unweighted foot on ball), or more of a core isolation (powered by the glutes and or obliques)?

Best, ~Zanbaka

What I teach ends of being a combination of both a push with the unweighted foot and a contraction of the muscles in the waist. Different variations are motivated in slightly different ways.

Marya
 

Rachel

New member
To get a good isolation understanding for a hip lift or drop and an understanding of the muscle required get them to lift their foot off the floor (same side as hip lift or drop will be on) while learning and practicing. Even just the slightest raise of the foot takes away the temptation to drive that move with leg and glute muscles and helps them to feel which muscle and where needs to be doing the lift & drop.


Hope this helps,
Rachel
 

shiradotnet

Well-known member
I teach lifts and drops by first having the students stand at the barre around the studio (or, if there's no barre, stand with one hand resting on back or side walls of the studio), and lift one leg in the air, so that the foot is off the floor completely. In this position, I have them contract the various muscles in the lower part of the torso (abs, obliques, lower back) to make the hip on the unweighted side rise. Then let it drop. We drill a bunch of up, down, up, down, up, down, then repeat on the other side.

While drilling, I correct any students who need it. I also explain to the group as a whole that I want them to steer their attention to their body to notice the sensations in their muscles as they do the up, down, up, down. I call particular attention to the abs and lower back.

After we've drilled a bunch of these, in which both the up movement and the down movement have equal importance, then I teach hip lifts and hip drops, reminding the students of the muscular sensations they felt in the drill.
 

shiradotnet

Well-known member
I am curious about this technique of using only the muscles in the upper body (waist area) (sorry about imprecise language) to generate the hip drop movement.

I use a combination of the thigh pushing back and up and upper body muscular contraction. sometimes depending on context the hip drop is generated more with lower body movement. All offer a slightly different "look".

Thanks for the tips, I will try them out. I have never had a teacher use these exercises, nor have i ever had a teacher that emphasized generating this movement with only the contraction of those muscles in the waist area.

I am another teacher who avoids using the "push with the leg" method to teach hip lifts/drops. There are certain specific situations in which I do teach putting weight on the foot on the dropping side and push off with that foot (for example, it's needed in certain Mahmoud Reda techniques), but it's not the standard that I use for most situations.

Here's why I don't like using the "push with the leg" method to teach hip lifts/drops, circles, figure 8's, and other hip-based moves...

  • The push-with-the-leg method is a very Western way of producing moves. It is limb-oriented. The Western mentality is to use the arms and legs to produce dance. The Middle Eastern mentality (at least, as it relates to belly dance) is to use the core muscles of the torso to produce dance.
  • Powering moves by pushing with the leg can lead to knee problems and foot problems because of the pressure being put on the joints, particularly when the joints are at the odd angles that belly dance moves such as figure 8's can produce. I have had students come to me after studying with other teachers, complaining of knee pain. As soon as they converted their technique to be "pull with the core" rather than "push with the foot/leg" those problems went away.
  • Pushing with the leg will fail to deliver one of the wonderful health benefits of belly dancing, which is core strength and flexibility. Using the abs, obliques, transverse abs, and lower back to originate hip moves instead of using the leg to push the hip around will help students eliminate lifelong back pain, improve the function of pelvic floor muscles (which really helps women whose pelvic floor may have been weakened by childbirth), and strengthen the abs for day-to-day posture and balance.
  • More nimble transtitions. A foot that is busy pushing the hip around is not free to lead into the next move.
  • A gooier, juicier aesthetic for hip-oriented moves. Especially nice as the student starts learning to dance to a taqsim.
  • This one is hard to explain, but the core muscles themselves are more nimble and more in control if you let them power your hips instead of using your leg to push the pelvis into them. It creates a feeling of more strength, control, and openness in your lower torso while you dance.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I teach lifts and drops by first having the students stand at the barre around the studio (or, if there's no barre, stand with one hand resting on back or side walls of the studio), and lift one leg in the air, so that the foot is off the floor completely. In this position, I have them contract the various muscles in the lower part of the torso (abs, obliques, lower back) to make the hip on the unweighted side rise. Then let it drop. We drill a bunch of up, down, up, down, up, down, then repeat on the other side.

Shira beat me to the barre, so I'll just say this works well with most of the students I've had.
 

Marya

Member
I am another teacher who avoids using the "push with the leg" method to teach hip lifts/drops. There are certain specific situations in which I do teach putting weight on the foot on the dropping side and push off with that foot (for example, it's needed in certain Mahmoud Reda techniques), but it's not the standard that I use for most situations.

Here's why I don't like using the "push with the leg" method to teach hip lifts/drops, circles, figure 8's, and other hip-based moves...

snip snip

It creates a feeling of more strength, control, and openness in your lower torso while you dance.
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thanks for the detailed explanation Shira.

Marya
 
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