dance for free?

alosha

New member
There are lots of good teachers in the Portland Area. I personally am familiar with a few and Lilah Perry is a former student of Cassandra Shore and she is a wonderful dancer and with Cassandra as a model she will be a good teacher too. You might want to check out more than one if you are going to be having private lessons.

Marya


do you have contact for her? thank you.
 

alosha

New member
Sorry, but someone has to tell you - the clip you posted showed a student going through a series of isolations - in time to the music certainly - but if I hired a dancer (even if I didn't have to actually pay anything) and that performance was what I got I'd be really pissed. And depending on the guest list rather embarrassed.

You simply are not ready yet. Give it more time. If you are no longer with your original teacher - and assuming there are no other nearby choices around - can you do private lessons with another teacher a bit further out?

i'm lad that's what i look like because that's what i am- a student.

as far as not performing for two years, how am i supposed to get the stage presence i need, as well as feedback? as long as i don't promote myself as being a pro and say that i am a student, why cant i perform?

the other girls, like i said, are way better. i'm uncomfortable posting their performances, so you'll have to take my word for it.

thank you for your feedback, i didn't think i was ready to be paid either
 

da Sage

New member
i'm lad that's what i look like because that's what i am- a student.

as far as not performing for two years, how am i supposed to get the stage presence i need, as well as feedback? as long as i don't promote myself as being a pro and say that i am a student, why cant i perform?

the other girls, like i said, are way better. i'm uncomfortable posting their performances, so you'll have to take my word for it.

thank you for your feedback, i didn't think i was ready to be paid either

Hi Alosha,

It is absolutely true that you can only learn stage presence and get better at performing by performing. But it is also true that you don't learn to dance while onstage. If you are learning from your troupemates, you are limited to what they choose to teach you (and also limited by their teaching skill) - and I have seen far too many dancers stuck at a low level because they are not really students - they learned from family and friends and maybe a video or two, and they aren't really addressing their weak spots or technique.

Some dancers are simply phenomenal, even if self-taught. The other 99.9% of us need to seek out good teachers and spend as much time as possible in their classes - even if it's just one class every month (let the teacher know that time/money/distance is limiting your attendance, if you can't come every week - this will let her know that you are still serious about dancing).

Also find out who sponsors open-call haflas and shows within a 1-4 hour driving radius of your town, and bring your troupe there to perform (or just go by yourself). Here in the Twin Cities, we get performers from Duluth, Rochester, St Cloud, and Wisconsin all the time. Nobody gets paid at a casual hafla, but performers get in free.

Go to workshops and festivals...some of them have participant shows, which are good opportunities to perform, as well as watch other dancers.

And just so you know, I'm a former student dancer...I am currently without classes after 4 years of straight classes, so I can't truthfully call myself a student, can I? When I'm out of class, my skills decline.:( I think this is true of most dancers. Do yourself a favor: if you can possibly afford it, get into a real class. If you can find yourself a mentor, fabulous, but a teacher grade B or above should be first on your list (not every teacher is grade A, and that's OK).
 

alosha

New member
thanks so much to everyone. i'd already scheduled some lessons in portland before this post, and am looking forward to them. i've scheduled lessons with different teachers, hoping to find one that is a good 'fit'. it's about a two hour drive each way, so they will be limited, that's for sure!

the original purpose of the post was to find out if it was ok to perform for free, wondering if others had, etc. now i know.
 

da Sage

New member
thanks so much to everyone. i'd already scheduled some lessons in portland before this post, and am looking forward to them. i've scheduled lessons with different teachers, hoping to find one that is a good 'fit'. it's about a two hour drive each way, so they will be limited, that's for sure!

the original purpose of the post was to find out if it was ok to perform for free, wondering if others had, etc. now i know.

My friends and troupe have performed for free at fundraisers, community events, talent shows, fun haflas, and workshop shows.

I know some people who have performed at showcases and variety shows, but I'm not sure what compensation they received.

Ren Faires are a good first "professional" opportunity, but try not to undercut anyone. Street character jobs give you a lot of flexibility and are a great way to start out, but don't pay much. Stage jobs, you need to do your research on the going rate (for other show types as well as dancing), and be sure your compensation is in line with everyone else's.
 

Kashmir

New member
i'm lad that's what i look like because that's what i am- a student.

as far as not performing for two years, how am i supposed to get the stage presence i need, as well as feedback? as long as i don't promote myself as being a pro and say that i am a student, why cant i perform?

the other girls, like i said, are way better. i'm uncomfortable posting their performances, so you'll have to take my word for it.

thank you for your feedback, i didn't think i was ready to be paid either
Stage presence is a small part of performing. Really, really knowing what you are doing is a bigger part of it. Feedback on that does not need a performance venue. In class a teacher can correct and add technique, guide your improvisation, and give you tools to perform with – such as a range of choreographies. (I’m not suggesting you need choreographies to perform – but having a few under your belt gives you a range ways to interact with the music. If you do decide to use them then you need to know them so well that you can re-orient them as you start dancing; do it mirrored; stop while someone runs in front of you and pick it up again when the space is clear, etc)

Once you can perform well – that is express the music in an interesting way with nice clean technique then the next step is performing for your peers – other dancers, friends and family. Until you can hold and interest these people you are not ready for the general public – paid or unpaid.

To put things into perspective, one of my favourite dancers – Denise Enan – once she was selected to dance professionally (ie she was already a good dancer not only with over a decade of informal dancing raqs sharqi but also a similar amount of ballet training) she studied formally several hours every day for 2 years before being allowed on stage. And that was only the start of her dance education. Most of us will never be able to take it that seriously but I regularly run across dancers who are still attending classes and workshops over 25 years into their love affair with this dance.

I'm glad you have found someone to take you to the next step. Hope it works out.
 

jenc

New member
I second what Kashmir says. Also if you try to learn stage prescence before you are fully proficient, you run the risk glossing over your lack of experience (and the faults which are inevitable we all have them).

I see fdrom other posts that you are trying to dance to music you are not familiar with, because you might have to do this on stage one day.

As a beginner, (which I class myself to be also) you need to familiarise yourself with your music, working to the same pieces over again so that you know how ME music works, what works best with a particular phrase.
 

Marya

Member
thanks so much to everyone. i'd already scheduled some lessons in portland before this post, and am looking forward to them. i've scheduled lessons with different teachers, hoping to find one that is a good 'fit'. it's about a two hour drive each way, so they will be limited, that's for sure!

the original purpose of the post was to find out if it was ok to perform for free, wondering if others had, etc. now i know.

Alosha,

Because of where I live I have had to drive at least 2 hours, one way, to get quality instruction. Now I drive 4 hours one way, to Spokane every few months for two hours of quality instruction. It can be hard to find a teacher that suits you but once you do, try to be regular about the classes.

when I was driving over to Pendleton for classes, I car pooled with three other ladies so it wasn't that hard, but we went every week that weather allowed.

Sometimes teachers will offer semi-privates to a small group of dancers at a group rate.

Marya
 

Lydia

New member
Hi Alosha,see the videoclip was helping a bit!...what i think is that for sure you are not ready to perform,paid or not.....
If you would be my student i wil for sure talk you out of it....
I think its best for you to keep on learning for some time to come even if you have to travel far,its ok you have to do that if you are realy serieus about dancing
You have a lot of work to do before you can go and perform if you want people to take your dancing serieus
even if you would go for free people will remember your name and face so if they would look again for a dancer after 1 or 2 years they will say ,,no, i know that dancer i have seen her before,, and you will not be in a position to explain that in the mean time you have been taking classes and are now better...Please be patient for your own good practise as much you can find a teacher that is good and helpfull,till you learn at least 1 good routine from 20 minutes so you could start with that while you are still practising,i mean a real good proffesional routine,not a wishy washy one....it seems you are realy serieus about the whole thing so you have to show people that you are serieus about it otherwise people will not take you serieus....please dont go and perform yet, go and spend time training ,performing now it wil be a waste of time ,training will be not a waste of time...and i am telling you as a friend....goodluck dear
 

sedoniaraqs

New member
as far as not performing for two years, how am i supposed to get the stage presence i need, as well as feedback?

By studying with a teacher and performing in student recitals under the direction of a teacher. By practicing for yourself, and occasionally for your friends/family. Then later, by performing in more public places under the direct tutelage of a teacher. A teacher, or peers when you get to a more advanced level, are really the only sources of meaningful feedback. Performing in public is not going to get you any feedback. Your mother, your boyfriend, and endless guys/restaurant owners/whoever that want to get in your pants will likely always tell you that you are great. This is not feedback.


as long as i don't promote myself as being a pro and say that i am a student, why cant i perform?

Because a performer with inadequate skill lowers the public's opinion of belly dance. It leaves people thinking that belly dance is no big deal, anyone can do it, it is boring, nothing special, offensive, embarrassing, etc. and those people will not go out of their way to attend another event with belly dancing in the future. They may even avoid such events. Thus amateur performances for the general public erode any kind of value that professional dancers could try to build in your community in the future (including YOU if/when you get there -- you could be slitting your own throat).

I also drove 4 hr round trips at times to get access to teachers. Study more and enjoy growing as a dancer.
 

alosha

New member
what about beginner level competitions? i'm getting so much useful information from this thread! it really sucks not having a teacher, someone who should have taught me all of this....
 

da Sage

New member
what about beginner level competitions? i'm getting so much useful information from this thread! it really sucks not having a teacher, someone who should have taught me all of this....

I have to say, I am curious about beginner level competitions too. I worry that maybe I have studied too long to compete as a beginner, but I'm definitely not professional level. Does anyone have any advice on this?

And what about students who have had a break in their studies....I would want to bill myself as having studied for the shorter time, not the longer one.
 

alosha

New member
i'm using the time i've actually been dancing..which is 10 months. there's a competition in july, bellydancer USA, and there's a up to 2years beginner category. i am planning on doing a solo there for feedback from the judges. also the troupe will be competing as well. to me it seems like a good opportunity to learn...
 

sedoniaraqs

New member
i'm using the time i've actually been dancing..which is 10 months. there's a competition in july, bellydancer USA, and there's a up to 2years beginner category. i am planning on doing a solo there for feedback from the judges. also the troupe will be competing as well. to me it seems like a good opportunity to learn...

Hmm...I would assume that in a beginner level competition, you'd be up against dancers who are being carefully groomed, coached, and polished by a teacher.

I have no first hand experience with competitions; however, from what I understand they usually cost money to enter in addition to the travel costs involved. You could use that entrance fee and travel money for some private lessons, which would be a much better opportunity to learn.

Also there are quite a few weeklong intensives/camps that would be good too. Oasis dance camp, Mendocino dance camp, Shareen el Safy's weeklong, Morocco's weeklong, Yousri Sharif's weeklong just to name some off the top of my head.
 

gisela

Super Moderator
If you can afford both then you could have it as a goal for your work. I have seen great improvement in some of my friends who signed up for competitions. Although... as preparation many had a series of private lessons, workshops and choreography- and stage makeup feedback. If you haven't had a teacher in a while I think you could get just as much feedback as in a competition situation or even more just by taking some classes. My friends have sometimes been frustrated with the critique at comps as they maybe don't agree or don't understand and weren't able to discuss at length with the judges. With a private tutor you could really get to the core of the issues.
 
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alosha

New member
so i think i'll talk to the teacher i'm going to take a lesson from and see what she thinks about competing. my reason for wanting to do it was to give me something to work towards, since i have no student show. and from what i've heard from my friends, the judges are quite helpful in the beginner category - work on arms, isolations, smile, etc.
 

gisela

Super Moderator
I can totally relate to that. I'm having the hardest time getting anywhere (with anything) right now because I don't really have a goal at the moment.
 
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