Beyond beginners

jenc

New member
If you only teach beginners - how far does your beginners stretch and what do you do with those who have outgrown you?
 

Lydia

New member
Hi Jenc,i think dancers must not teach yet untill they realy have enough stuff for a while so the beginners can not just outgrow you that easy...i realy think that a lot of people teach far far to early.....
How can you start to teach if beginners outgrow you?
that means you are not in a position to teach at all yet i believe,but that is just my opinion,have a nice day .....Lydia
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Beginners

Hi Jenc,i think dancers must not teach yet untill they realy have enough stuff for a while so the beginners can not just outgrow you that easy...i realy think that a lot of people teach far far to early.....
How can you start to teach if beginners outgrow you?
that means you are not in a position to teach at all yet i believe,but that is just my opinion,have a nice day .....Lydia


Dear Lydia,
REP to you for this very wise post.
Regards,
A'isha
 

jenc

New member
I thinkj you have misunderstood me. i have attended beginner classes that have been more mixed ability classes, and that is what i was thinking of. I understand that liz only teaches beginners, and I assume that she doesn't mean 6 months or a year only, or does she. Would I fit in your class Liz?
 

Marya

Member
Hi Jenc,i think dancers must not teach yet untill they realy have enough stuff for a while so the beginners can not just outgrow you that easy...i realy think that a lot of people teach far far to early.....
How can you start to teach if beginners outgrow you?
that means you are not in a position to teach at all yet i believe,but that is just my opinion,have a nice day .....Lydia

Well, sometimes there are extraordinary students that are such fabulous dancers they rocket away to Turkey or someplace. But you are right a teacher should have enough material to teach beginners for several years.

My problem is trying to keep absolute beginners going without boring the experienced beginners.

Marya
 

Yshka

New member
Dear Lydia, I tried giving you rep as well. The forum wouldn't let me. Then I tried to give A'isha rep for giving you rep, but the forum also wouldn't let me (wonder why:lol:).
Anyhow, just wanted to say you make a very, very good point. The rep will come to you when the Powers let me give any again.

Dear Jenc, I'm not sure if I understand correctly but I will try to form a reply.
For a teacher, I must go wth Lydia and A'isha. A dancer starting to teach should have enough material in many ways to not let her students outgrow her. Then she shouldn't start teaching in the first place. As somebody who has been teaching beginners for some time now, and having started to teach intermediates for a small period of time because circumstances within the dance school required so (my teacher having her beautiful baby...) have made me think of this extensively. When I started teaching beginners I didn't quite feel ready out of being quite shy, but I had enough under my belt to be able to teach them properly without having to worry for them to outgrow me. Having to teach intermediates made me move up studying dance a few notches, to be ready, stay ahead and gain new knowledge, new informations, new things to add to my repertoire, get familiar with and be able to give proper classes. Under the guidance of a good teacher every step of the way, I must add.
For me it's different. I teach within a growing dance school that has another teacher (my teacher). This means I keep learning and growing in the dance to have something to add to the school, and beginners would, after a year, year and a half, maybe two, also have the opportunity to move up to a number of groups that can enable them to grow further in the dance.

If you only teach beginners, you have a decision to make, also as the student. As a teacher: you risk losing students because you don't go beyond beginners. So you should either reinforce your knowledge and make sure you have enough to give beyond beginners level, or start with a new group every year or so and let go of people who, so to speak, 'outgrow' you.
As a student, seems to me if a teacher ONLY does beginners, and there is no possibility, nor wanting to teach beyond beginners level either, the student should go find another teacher if they wish to grow beyond what this teacher has to give, IMO.

In your last post, you speak of Liz. If this is a personal question wether you can be in Liz's group, I would say you should contact her personally and discuss the situation to help you in your decision.

I'm not quite sure if I've touched on what you were asking, but I hope my two cents (Eurocents that is;)) can help.

Good luck!
 
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jenc

New member
No sadly I am too far from Liz. I just came up with this question when thinking about what I want to be learning right now. Then I wondered where I would go next year. I am currently in a Level 1 class, which is intended to be for students who have done 20 week beginner class. This is the first year of this class. There is no higher class except the advanced group who are expected to know the technique and to learn the routines faster. I want to learn about rythmns and music and weight changes and what makes a move or a dance egyptian. I want to get feedback on my posture and other moves, in fact I want feedback. I want to learn how to begin to string movements together, what steps go with what music. I want to learn how to dance as an instrument reacting to the music as counterpoint and not dancing 8 of these and 32 of those. Anyone know any good dvds?
 

Eshta

New member
No sadly I am too far from Liz. I just came up with this question when thinking about what I want to be learning right now. Then I wondered where I would go next year. I am currently in a Level 1 class, which is intended to be for students who have done 20 week beginner class. This is the first year of this class. There is no higher class except the advanced group who are expected to know the technique and to learn the routines faster. I want to learn about rythmns and music and weight changes and what makes a move or a dance egyptian. I want to get feedback on my posture and other moves, in fact I want feedback. I want to learn how to begin to string movements together, what steps go with what music. I want to learn how to dance as an instrument reacting to the music as counterpoint and not dancing 8 of these and 32 of those. Anyone know any good dvds?

Sounds like there's a gap in your local teachers. To jump from a 20 week beginner class to 'advanced' feels weird to me!

Jen you are a very capable dancer, and you are clearly dedicated to advancing your knowledge and you take this artform seriously. Have you maybe considered switching from a weekly group class format to perhaps a fortnightly/monthly private class? It helped me when I was hitting my head on a learning ceiling, as it opened doors to more possibilities.

Or, if there's a few of you feeling the same, you could invite someone to come teach you!

Sorry, straying off the topic slightly!
 

Yshka

New member
Dear Jenc, I understand. Is there any other teacher in the area that offers a level that would go between the Level 1 class you are in and the advanced group? It seems after 20 weeks of beginners, advanced is a big step.

Do not let it discourage you though!! You really want to go further, so perhaps Eshta is right: if there is no local teacher that can offer that, maybe travelling a little further and taking private sessions would indeed be a good idea, for as long as you don't feel ready to take the advanced class. You could do it 2-weekly or monthly and take the time in between to practise what you learn and get feedback when you return.

As for DVD's I'm no help since I haven't used any in quite some time, but other members I'm sure can give you better pointers.

I hope you find something to get you going again!
 

jenc

New member
Thanks guys.... I am not allowed in advanced anyway....... I have been turned down twice, second time only last month. 2 dancers were allowed to go up when we finished beginners, but I was not allowed as I could not cope with learning choreo from that particular teacher (I was amazed to find out later that I was fairl average in picking things up.)

i don't really want to go up either. It's all about learning choreos that aren't in my style, and I understand you are expected to know things that weren't taught at lower levels.

Thanks for saying I am a capable dancer, Eshta. If that is based on my posts, I wish I danced as well as I understand about dancing!!

I will be looking for someone to travel to. Thanks

PS we have been asked by the teacher to prepare a short excerpt to show her. This without ever having done any exploratory work or exposure to music in class.

I said that I wasn't too worried as I knew something about how to use music because I've always been an amateur dancer. She replied "Just because you know how to mover, doesn't mean you know anything about ME music!!!!!! I've been studying 14 years and I've been told I really understand it"
 
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Caroline_afifi

New member
Jenc,


I remember going to classes years and years ago that did the same thing every week and used the same music year in year out.

You could almost run the class yourself after 6 months because it never moved on or changed, it became very boring and predictable.

In contrast i went to someone else who used to keep things so fresh, it moved at such a pace you never learned anything.

I have never taught a beginners class because I cant work out how to deal with new people coming week after week and balancing them with ones who have been coming year after year.

I now teach classes for people who go to other classes for their foundations.
I work with people who want to be pushed and move onto the next level.

I admire anyone who teaches week in week out to a constantly changeing class.
 

Eshta

New member
Thanks guys.... I am not allowed in advanced anyway....... I have been turned down twice, second time only last month. 2 dancers were allowed to go up when we finished beginners, but I was not allowed as I could not cope with learning choreo from that particular teacher (I was amazed to find out later that I was fairl average in picking things up.)

i don't really want to go up either. It's all about learning choreos that aren't in my style, and I understand you are expected to know things that weren't taught at lower levels.

Thanks for saying I am a capable dancer, Eshta. If that is based on my posts, I wish I danced as well as I understand about dancing!!

I will be looking for someone to travel to. Thanks

PS we have been asked by the teacher to prepare a short excerpt to show her. This without ever having done any exploratory work or exposure to music in class.

I said that I wasn't too worried as I knew something about how to use music because I've always been an amateur dancer. She replied "Just because you know how to mover, doesn't mean you know anything about ME music!!!!!! I've been studying 14 years and I've been told I really understand it"

My comment on your dance ability is based on having seen you dance at Saqarah for maybe 5 minutes or so, but it was enough that I got the feeling that you could 'feel' the music, move to it, and not from having learnt 'combinations' that fit.

What does your teacher expect that you and the rest of the class bar the two who made it to the 'advanced' class do? The gap kinda baffles me, are you supposed to simply repeat the beginner term again?

Choreographies can be a useful teaching tool but they wouldn't define my beginners and my improvers (if I had an improvers class).

I think there always comes a natural point when you are ready to break from a teacher, and it sounds like you are at that point already.

It was also my experience that the weekly class format didn't work for me any more. I then went through a phase of attending workshops and that was ok but I realised I needed the intensity and depth that private classes offer.
 

jenc

New member
Thanks for those kind words. It is hard to maintain self-belief when your teacher thinks that you must be not very good by definition.

I am now in class called Level 1 which is 2nd year. Up to now, I think most people left after beginners. Teacher had an attitude that beginners don't want to learn technique, they only want to learn one dance. So what you learntwas just what was necessary to do your dance. If a step wasn't in your choreo you didn't learn it. So at the end of this you don't understand weight changes, transitions, music or anything.

Now several of the very nice girls that I am now dancing with are absolute beginners, even if they have done the first class, although some of them haven't. However, the first dance we learnt was a very fast and tricky drum solo. We seem to hav left that one and are now doing one that bores me to tears. However, I am inspired when drilling steps to add arms at a different speed as a challenge. I haven't given up on the class as it is a local ed class and I paid the year in advance. I also haven't identified anyone to teach me the sort of dance I want to do.

I guess I need to attend workshops nearby and then sound out teachers. Unless any of you out there have suggestions?
 

alosha

New member
I am now in class called Level 1 which is 2nd year. Up to now, I think most people left after beginners. Teacher had an attitude that beginners don't want to learn technique, they only want to learn one dance. So what you learntwas just what was necessary to do your dance. If a step wasn't in your choreo you didn't learn it. So at the end of this you don't understand weight changes, transitions, music or anything.

the first lady i took classes from did the same thing. a bunch of waltz steps with a shimmy and a bit of veil. time for you to move on. if you have the resources, i think taking a private lesson and then working on what you learn would work better than being with a teacher who doesn't teach you what you want to learn. good luck, and i look forward to hearing of your progress!
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance classes

Dear Gang,
I think that no matter how fantastic one's teacher is, that dancers benefit from study with a variety of people if that is possible. I have tried to treat the learning of dance like I would treat any other subject of study, in that I think it was first necessary to study different styles to know where I wanted to go. I started with Egyptian belly dance, but studied other styles for awhile, too. Then after about 8 years I narrowed into Egyptian belly dance as I seemed to have a talent for that style. I studied that and folkloric dances exclusively. I eventually found that I had talent for specific folkloric and "fakeloric" styles as well.
I find that it is important to study with a different people even when we are narrowed into a specific style. Just as when we study college level math or history, etc., no one teacher can give anyone everything. We all have our specific ways of looking at any given aspect of the dance, and we all have specific teaching skills that we excel in or are not so good at. After getting the fundamentals, I think students benefit from studying with a variety of instructors.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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