Verticle Figure 8's - Flat Feet Or Lift?

[maria_harlequin]

I've been taught to lift my feet during a vertical figure 8 or a maya when I was starting out but now I only do them with flat fleet. I've been taught that doing them by lifting your feet to help hurts your lower back in some way - is this true? Begginers at my studio are taught to learn them with raised feet and once they've learned how to do them that way, they're then taught how to do them flat feet and are no longer allowed to lift.

I like doing them flat feet - feels a lot more natural and smooth to me but sometimes I'd like to throw in a few of them with lifting my feet to make the movement appear larger when appropriate. Are there any health risks as my instructors and I think there are?

 

[artemisiadances]

i only teach them flat footed... i find it confusing to teach students A first, and then tell them to change to B, so i'd rather it takes them longer, but they do it "right" right away.. right between brackets as i can imagine there are different points of view

I've been taught to lift my feet during a vertical figure 8 or a maya when I was starting out but now I only do them with flat fleet. I've been taught that doing them by lifting your feet to help hurts your lower back in some way - is this true? Begginers at my studio are taught to learn them with raised feet and once they've learned how to do them that way, they're then taught how to do them flat feet and are no longer allowed to lift.

I like doing them flat feet - feels a lot more natural and smooth to me but sometimes I'd like to throw in a few of them with lifting my feet to make the movement appear larger when appropriate. Are there any health risks as my instructors and I think there are?

 

[Shanazel]

I teach them flat footed first so that students don't get into the habit of lifting their heels to facilitate the movement. When students have the flat-footed version down pat, I teach them to do the movement while rising onto the balls of their feet and also while deeply bending their knees so that they can layer the mayas over vertical movement. I've never heard of a physically fit person injuring themselves with mayas, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened to someone somewhere.

 

[artemisiadances]

exactly, that way you can use the feet to layer, rather than as part of the movement...

I teach them flat footed first so that students don't get into the habit of lifting their heels to facilitate the movement. When students have the flat-footed version down pat, I teach them to do the movement while rising onto the balls of their feet and also while deeply bending their knees so that they can layer the mayas over vertical movement. I've never heard of a physically fit person injuring themselves with mayas, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened to someone somewhere.

 

[Kashmir]

I teach them flat footed first so that students don't get into the habit of lifting their heels to facilitate the movement. When students have the flat-footed version down pat, I teach them to do the movement while rising onto the balls of their feet and also while deeply bending their knees so that they can layer the mayas over vertical movement. I've never heard of a physically fit person injuring themselves with mayas, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened to someone somewhere.

Same here.

I'm wondering if in lifting your feet you can get more leverage on the lower back with the leg (rather than driving with the abs) so therefore may cause problems.

Flat or lifted - I leave Mayas until people have good strong abs and automatic posture control (ie they engage their abs automatically whenever they need to to protect the lower back). Not a beginner move.

 

[Aniseteph]

I'm wondering if in lifting your feet you can get more leverage on the lower back with the leg (rather than driving with the abs) so therefore may cause problems.

That makes sense. I think it's easy to try to make the move big and push your back around, but with the ab driven ones it feels like my lower back is an integral part of the move, if that makes any sense.

 

[jenc]

my Egyptian teacher (from Egypt) does them with raised feet but I think the scret is that they are not foot driven and the leg is soft

 

[Zanbaka]

I prefer to start out teaching a flat footed version, but also like to throw in a foot lifting version in my dances for a more stylized look from time to time.

I use a connect the dots method with teaching the flat footed version as it demostrates the relationship between the percussive Up Hip, Side Hip, and Down Hip isolations.

This can be one of the most difficult movements for students to "resist the urge" to use the feet to power the movement. I've noticed that being able to create a fluid/smooth isolation shape passing through all the points while maintaining a neutral pelvis is always a big break through for my students!

Best, ~Zanbaka

 

[Maria_Aya]

Both, flat foot and lifted.
In egyptian style (that i teach) rarely you see a flat footed Maya and the specific movement doesnt have the "significant" as a movement as it have in "western bellydance heads".
Its just a movement that can also describe music. If its fluid and beautiful dont keep your mind blocked with the feet subject.

Maria Aya

 

[maria_harlequin]

Thanks for the advice everyone!!

 

[Kashmir]

my Egyptian teacher (from Egypt) does them with raised feet but I think the scret is that they are not foot driven and the leg is soft

Yes, that is what I have seen too.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

I teach doing it the way I see it done in Egypt. The movement is done lifting the hip and sliding the weight to the other side. The heels comes along for the ride automatically. I do teach mayas flat footed because there's no reason to lift the heels. Unless you are doing them descending, in which case both heels are lifted and the feet are parallel as you descend, but the movement comes strictly from the muscles in the hips.

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

Same here.

I'm wondering if in lifting your feet you can get more leverage on the lower back with the leg (rather than driving with the abs) so therefore may cause problems.

Flat or lifted - I leave Mayas until people have good strong abs and automatic posture control (ie they engage their abs automatically whenever they need to to protect the lower back). Not a beginner move.[/QUOTE]

I agree.It's more fluid to engage the abdominal muscles in both version, but it takes beginning students a while to figure that out. Both versions are valid as it depends on the music. One can travel and perform level changes by lfting the heels while flat footed is more stationary. The point is how it's being taught within the context of the overall dance.
Yasmine

 

[Jane]

I do both flat and ball. Any move is a potential risk if you don't have proper body alignment. I avoid noticeably pumping the feet up and down; it makes it look like you are riding an invisible bike.

The primary movement is ab driven. The give in the soft knees and lifted heels is only to facilitate a larger range of motion not initiate movement.

some muscles are initiators
some muscles are minor players
some movements are risidual
and some muscles are the supporting cast
it's never that simple anyway

Here we go again!