Lebanese vs Turkish vs Cabaret

[eden eyes]

For the longest time, I would say that I did Cabaret style and Turkish. but now, i have found out more of the Lebanese style (i had no idea really before) and I find it's pretty similar to Turkish, right? i heard it's right in between Egyptian and Turkish.

So, is there really that big of a difference among those three styles? I'm sure there are some, so please explain them to me in depth as much as possible!

 

[Marya]

For the longest time, I would say that I did Cabaret style and Turkish. but now, i have found out more of the Lebanese style (i had no idea really before) and I find it's pretty similar to Turkish, right? i heard it's right in between Egyptian and Turkish.

So, is there really that big of a difference among those three styles? I'm sure there are some, so please explain them to me in depth as much as possible!

To give you an in depth explanation would require some in-person demonstrations.

A lot depends on what you perceive as Turkish, Lebanese, Egyptian etc.

American Cabaret (developed in the 1950's through 1970's approx) had a lot of Turkish and Lebanese influence. As dancers educated themselves they began to understand that there were stylistic and cultural differences.

Today in Turkey (if videos are anything to judge by) Oryental Tanzi as performed in nightclubs has lost a lot of its uniqueness.

There are a lot of differences between the styles (or there were), music and costuming being the easiest ones to perceive.

It sometimes appears that Lebanese style BD is on a continuum between Turkey and Egypt. The folkdances appear that way too, and if we erase the political boundaries and look at ethnic and geographic boundaries this can appear to make sense. But superficial similarities can sometimes mask the differences. I usually refrain from drawing broad sweeping comparisons. I try to learn as much as possible about each style, culture and history and don't worry about similarities.

Marya

 

[eden eyes]

Wow, thanks so much Marya! So is it possible then to say I dance Leburkaret, a mix of all three? lol (corny i know, but it sounds cool :lol: !)

 

[shiradotnet]

For the longest time, I would say that I did Cabaret style and Turkish. but now, i have found out more of the Lebanese style (i had no idea really before) and I find it's pretty similar to Turkish, right? i heard it's right in between Egyptian and Turkish.

So, is there really that big of a difference among those three styles? I'm sure there are some, so please explain them to me in depth as much as possible!

I avoid using the word cabaret. As it relates to dance style, the term is absolutely meaningless. Really, all it means is "not Tribal".

You might want to check out the articles on my web site, "Styles of Belly Dance in the U.S." to see whether one of those resonates with you. The article is at Belly Dancing: About M.E. Dance--Its History, Cultural Context, Dance Styles . It's possible that what you're calling "cabaret" is the style I refer to as "American Classic", which is a fusion of Turkish, Lebanese, Armenian, and Egyptian styles that arose in the U.S. during the 1950's and 1960's.

 

[PriscillaAdum]

Many years ago, Lebanese and Egyptian styles closely resembled each other. You might want to check out this old Bhuz thread, where Lebanese dancer Suha Deeb explains the differences between old style Lebanese, modern Lebanese and other styles.

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Priscilla

For the longest time, I would say that I did Cabaret style and Turkish. but now, i have found out more of the Lebanese style (i had no idea really before) and I find it's pretty similar to Turkish, right? i heard it's right in between Egyptian and Turkish.

So, is there really that big of a difference among those three styles? I'm sure there are some, so please explain them to me in depth as much as possible!

 

[Kashmir]

From what I've seen on video, the main differences between Lebanese and Turkish would be more use of full body movement in Turkish, more emphasis on hips in Lebanese (but less isolated and internal than Egyptian); use of Rom moves in Turkish; scantier costume in Turkish (I know much of what we get to see on video is made for the soft porn market but from what people I have met who know the style have said it isn't too far off the mark); and most important - use of Turkish music. That said, I believe, a more Arabic form of belly dance is seen in Turkey these days which uses Arabic music.

 

[Kharmine]

From what I've researched about the early days of belly/Oriental dance in the United States, what often gets called "American cabaret" is a vague phrase for a style that evolved when American women started learning belly dance from Greek, Turkish, Middle Eastern and Armenian immigrants, children of immigrants and imported performers starting in the late 1950s on the East Coast.

Back in the day, Egyptian and Muslim immigrants were not as numerous as they became after the 1960s. The largest immigrant communities were made up of non-Muslims from Greece, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, then-Palestine, Iran, etc., and more present on the East Coast then the West. Their nightclubs were often owned by Greeks, and the imported entertainers came from the immigrants' host countries.

(Much of the live musical accompaniment when it was not imported came from groups made of musicians of various ethnic backgrounds who learned to play each others' music. Some of them went on to turn out record albums of Westernized ethnic music.)

Read the interviews given by American pioneers such as Morocco, Dahlena and Serena, and they talk about learning the dance by going to these ethnic nightclubs and picking up the moves from the entertainers and the clientele. Some Greek style here, Turkish style there, a little Armenian or Lebanese thrown in, etc.

Eventually, these pioneers and others like them went on to get more advanced training, often going to the host countries of origin.

But in the meantime, there was a real shortage of belly dancers for all the cabarets and other venues that wanted to present that kind of entertainment, so Americans filled the gap in many places.

When "tribal" started to get popular, the older style was dismissively called "cabaret" by those who insisted tribal style was more "authentic." Now it's recognized as a dance form in its own right; separate from the Greek, Turkish and Egyptian styles that make up what we call belly or Oriental dance today, and which are the ethnic legacy for the American cabaret/American Oriental style.

 

[Kiraze]

I have been long gone from this forum and perhaps i should have stayed away but finally i dare to ask a question that has bothered me for years: what the heck is "Oryental Tanzi"?`

At least those words do not represent Turkish language or Turkish dance... Oryantal is widely used term besides göbek dansi but "tanzi" is not Turkish term and couple of non-typical alphabet do not excuse of writing Turkish words or names wrongly as after all Turkish IS written in western alphabet.

So use Turkish dance, Oryantal, Dans Oryantal, Göbek Dans, Raks Sahane, Oyun Havalar, Rakkas, Roman Havasi (when spoken about "gypsy dance") but please, please do not use "oryental tanzi"

Dance in Turkish is dans, raks or oyun and Eastern is doğu so actually term "oryantal" comes from "western" languages to mean bellydance

 

[Kharmine]

....So use Turkish dance, Oryantal, Dans Oryantal, Göbek Dans, Raks Sahane, Oyun Havalar, Rakkas, Roman Havasi (when spoken about "gypsy dance") but please, please do not use "oryental tanzi"

Dance in Turkish is dans, raks or oyun and Eastern is doğu so actually term "oryantal" comes from "western" languages to mean bellydance

Are you Turkish, or have lived in Turkey? Are you a dancer of the Turkish style? Most of us here are not Turkish and have little or no knowledge of anything having to do with Turkey, let alone the Turkish language. As far as I can tell you are the first person to bring this subject up (I haven't done a subject search on this forum on it, so maybe I am wrong and you have mentioned it before).

"Oryantal danzi" is the most common term that has become attached to the Turkish style of Oriental dance on this forum. People may spell it differently because they do not know Turkish and are trying to spell it as they hear it, or they have seen it so spelled elsewhere, or they simply mis-spell.

I think we would all like to be educated better on the subject. But I don't think we like it have it assumed that we are deliberately spelling it wrong, or are trying to offend speakers of Turkish.

 

[Kharmine]

...and Kiraze, I mean no disrespect. I just hope you'll realize none of us mean it either.

 

[shiradotnet]

So use Turkish dance, Oryantal, Dans Oryantal, Göbek Dans, Raks Sahane, Oyun Havalar, Rakkas, Roman Havasi (when spoken about "gypsy dance") but please, please do not use "oryental tanzi"

Dance in Turkish is dans, raks or oyun and Eastern is doğu so actually term "oryantal" comes from "western" languages to mean bellydance

Hi Kiraze! I always appreciate it when people with linguistic and cultural knowledge correct widely-used errors. So thanks for posting!

Are you a native speaker of Turkish? If so, I have lots of questions for you!

Here they are:

1. Isn't "Göbek Dans" the folk dance seen in these photos on my web site? Scenes From Turkey: The "Real" Turkish "Belly" Dance
2. In one place in your message you referred to the word for dance spelled as "dansi" and in another place you referred to it as "dans". When would you spell it with the "i" and when not?
3. Is "Oriyantal dansi" a correct way to spell the term? That's what I have heard in the past.
4. Which term would a Turkish person be most likely to use in referring to Oriental dance?
5. Would you care to comment on the use of the term "karşilama" to refer to dancing to a 9/8 rhythm?

 

[eden eyes]

wow i'm learning a lot!

thanks everyone for you input! sorry i didn't reply earlier.

When i first started dancing, i was interested in the modern styles, like modern turkish and egyptian styles. all though, some videos (of say, Didem and Elcin) really make me question the modern turkish. I love turkish to death, but i don't think i will go as overboard as some of the "pros" and show my booty and half of my boobs to my audience while wearing 9 inch heels.

however, i still love the modern "glitzy" styles but the more i study belly dance, the more i am beginning to appreciate and become interested in some of the traditional, folk style of the dances. I have no knowledge of the history of them or anything, but I find them intriguing nonetheless.

by the way, is it appropriate to dance modern Turkish to, say, Ihab Tawfik or other modern Egyptian artists? i have mainly egyptian music, as Turkish seems harder to find.

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

have you looked Ruby? or totally turkish? her stuff is nice. shes flirty and saucy but not cheap and skimpy. I totally LOVE her style.

 

[Laila_Sultana]

Modern Lebanese style was under heavy influence of Turkish bellydancers, who danced in Lebanon in 1990.... Sad, but Turkish bellydancers couldn't find enough jobs in their own country for different reasons and they switched their style from traditional Turkish Oriental (or "Tanzi", if you like different word) that doesn't exists anymore(you can still buy videos of the last ones like Ilcin Adali, Tylai Caraca, Efruz, etc from Eva Cernik syte) to more Arab lokk like style.

 

[Kraliche]

Modern Lebanese style was under heavy influence of Turkish bellydancers, who danced in Lebanon in 1990.... Sad, but Turkish bellydancers couldn't find enough jobs in their own country for different reasons and they switched their style from traditional Turkish Oriental (or "Tanzi", if you like different word) that doesn't exists anymore(you can still buy videos of the last ones like Ilcin Adali, Tylai Caraca, Efruz, etc from Eva Cernik syte) to more Arab lokk like style.

I was always wondering why Lebanese style looks like the style that I dance, and now I see why ... my teacher's style is classic Turkish ( of whatever you name it ) of 1970-1980, and I think she still keeps it ( so don't say it doesn't exists any more ... I can dance for you )

One thing I notice is, when I learn from other Turkish teacher as "Egyptian style" it looks more like Lebanese style to me.


By the way, I would like to correct the spelling of names --- so that people can easily google them.

Inci Adali ( Inci Adalı )
Tulay Karaca ( same as Tulay Karaca )


As you see in Inci's name, in Turkish there is "i" and "i -without dot on top"
Also "c" and "c - with tail " ... and spelling ( or converting ) those Turkish alphabets into English alphabets make things confused ...

Lastly, here in Turkey now, they call belldyance "oryantal".
I rarely hear "gobek dansi" göbek dansı .... so use oryantal as Turks!

 

[Kraliche]

1. Isn't "Göbek Dans" the folk dance seen in these photos on my web site? Scenes From Turkey: The "Real" Turkish "Belly" Dance
2. In one place in your message you referred to the word for dance spelled as "dansi" and in another place you referred to it as "dans". When would you spell it with the "i" and when not?
3. Is "Oriyantal dansi" a correct way to spell the term? That's what I have heard in the past.
4. Which term would a Turkish person be most likely to use in referring to Oriental dance?
5. Would you care to comment on the use of the term "karşilama" to refer to dancing to a 9/8 rhythm?

Hi Shira, I would love to help you if Kiraz will not answer you ... I learned a lot from your site so it is an honor if I can contribute! Let's see if Kiraz will answer ... if not I will. ( just remind me! )

 

[Laila_Sultana]

Kraliche wrote:
"I was always wondering why Lebanese style looks like the style that I dance, and now I see why ... my teacher's style is classic Turkish ( of whatever you name it ) of 1970-1980, and I think she still keeps it ( so don't say it doesn't exists any more ... I can dance for you )"
Good to know that there are some exceptions, because as I think (and not only I) that everything after Tulay Caraca is or horrible, or not Turkish. Does your teacher has a video on youtube, or somewhre? I'd love to see her dance!!!
Thanks for correction my "spelling". I am so lazy!