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  1. #21
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Aisha Azar View Post
    Dear Caroline,
    WOW!! Am I going to Cairo again this year????????????? I didn't know, but now I am very excited. I will have to call Hallah and let her know I am usurping her guest bedroom again! LOL!! (I think you have me confused with someone else. I went last April but am staying home this year, but thanks for wishing me to be going back so soon!!)
    Oh what a classic! lucky I didnt change my flight!!

    Did somebody open up an old thread about the Nilegroup festival or what??

    I thought your post was recent and you were departing back to the USA on the 26th and I arrive the 30th.. (perhaps I am just going nuts)

    Oh well, at least I now know I will not miss you by a few days...

  2. #22
    V.I.P. Tarik Sultan's Avatar
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    Default Cosmopolitan Egypt

    <snip>
    The one thing we consistently leave out of these conversations, and by "we" I mean just about everyone, is that early worldview affects every single thing a person does. Masabni's worldview, from birth and onward was Arab. The way she processed and filtered information was Arab. The way she danced was Arab, whether or not there were Hollywood or other influences there. Her native language, her cultural roots shaped the way she thought, the way she reacted, etc, as is true of every person alive.By the time she moved to Argentina, she was already affected by an Arab worldview. We fail to take this into consideration so many times when we discuss the outside influences on the native dancers. They do very distinctly Arab things with those outside influences and this is why I refuse to give the West credit for being that influential on the dance. It IS an Arab dance, through and through!!
    <snip>

    It is true that regardless of the foreign influences in Egypt, what was created was something that was still essentially Egyptian, (I said exactly that). This happens with every culture. This is precisely why the dance in America is essentially an AMERICAN dance regardless of the fact that it is of Middle Eastern origin. When people borrow elements from other cultures, they always assimilate them from the perspective of their cultural imprint and world view. Like when I was in Trinidad my friends took my to have some "American food", pizza. Except that they used cheddar cheese instead of mozzarella and then they'd slather it with ketchup and mustard!

    This is why we have to work so hard to learn and express the dance from an Egyptian aesthetic and they don't. So while Raks Sharki as we know it could not have developed without those foreign elements and concepts, what they created was something that was still Egyptian. They may have borrowed the concept of traveling in space from ballroom, but they executed it with the body language of an Egyptian and with an emotional interpretation of the music that was Egyptian. We still have to acknowledge the different elements that contributed to its development, but pointing this out in no way diminishes from it being a product of Egyptian culture and artistic ingenuity.
    Last edited by Tarik Sultan; 02-24-2009 at 03:26 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    Ahmed Rami was married but was in love with Um Kultoum.
    It was 'well known' his wife accepted his love for her as she understood him as a passionate poet. All gossip of course.

    A lot of men loved Om Kalthoum including the king, that doesn't mean she loved them back. I was actually thinking about naguib el Rehani who was in a relationship with Badia, that's why I went back and changed it.

    Badia Masabni had connections with many people in the field, she knew Ahmed Rami really well, amongst many others. It was said that she was not the loving kind and the only thing she cared about was her casino and money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    Who was Gina's mother? and who was Badia's first husband?

    Do you work for the Egyptian version of Hello Magazine by any chance?
    Gina's mother is supposedly some french woman whom Naguib secretly had a relationship with. I don't know who Badia's first husband is, but I know that she could not inherit Naguib's fortune because the church would not accept her marriage.

    No, I don't work for the Masri Hello. Do you have a job offer for me?

  4. #24
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy8522 View Post
    A lot of men loved Om Kalthoum including the king, that doesn't mean she loved them back. I was actually thinking about naguib el Rehani who was in a relationship with Badia, that's why I went back and changed it.
    OOH no, I gathered the obsession was on his part.

    Badia Masabni had connections with many people in the field, she knew Ahmed Rami really well, amongst many others. It was said that she was not the loving kind and the only thing she cared about was her casino and money.
    mmm... I can see how this lifestyle can harden you.


    Gina's mother is supposedly some french woman whom Naguib secretly had a relationship with. I don't know who Badia's first husband is, but I know that she could not inherit Naguib's fortune because the church would not accept her marriage.

    No, I don't work for the Masri Hello. Do you have a job offer for me?
    I dont but Hello Should!

    how the heck do you know all this gossip at your tender age?? you are still in mini skirts for goodness sake..

  5. #25
    Junior Member LynetteSerpent's Avatar
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    Default bad formatting of article fixed, I hope

    Please excuse me for popping in 2 pages late. I was just informed about this thread's existance. I just wanted to let you know that I think the formatting problems on the Badia article should now be fixed. It was not lazy web design, just ignorant. Those who were having problems seemed to be using Internet Explorer 6. There is a free upgrade available! In the last month, I have been spending many hours and dollars upgrading my webskills from the archaic times of 10 years ago. We also posted 19 articles at the same time. Please be patient as I am learning as fast as I can. I appreciate direct notes if you do find problems instead of assuming that I don’t care.

    Thanks to Jalilah too for her patience. More wonderful content is coming and more upgrades to the site. I appreciated the feedback. Now you can go back to your discussion and I’ll go work on the next video!
    Thanks again,
    Lynette
    editor@gildedserpent.com

  6. #26
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynetteSerpent View Post
    Please excuse me for popping in 2 pages late. I was just informed about this thread's existance. I just wanted to let you know that I think the formatting problems on the Badia article should now be fixed. It was not lazy web design, just ignorant. Those who were having problems seemed to be using Internet Explorer 6. There is a free upgrade available! In the last month, I have been spending many hours and dollars upgrading my webskills from the archaic times of 10 years ago. We also posted 19 articles at the same time. Please be patient as I am learning as fast as I can. I appreciate direct notes if you do find problems instead of assuming that I don’t care.

    Thanks to Jalilah too for her patience. More wonderful content is coming and more upgrades to the site. I appreciated the feedback. Now you can go back to your discussion and I’ll go work on the next video!
    Thanks again,
    Lynette


    editor@gildedserpent.com
    Ok, thanks for explaining.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan View Post
    <snip>
    The one thing we consistently leave out of these conversations, and by "we" I mean just about everyone, is that early worldview affects every single thing a person does. Masabni's worldview, from birth and onward was Arab. The way she processed and filtered information was Arab. The way she danced was Arab, whether or not there were Hollywood or other influences there. Her native language, her cultural roots shaped the way she thought, the way she reacted, etc, as is true of every person alive.By the time she moved to Argentina, she was already affected by an Arab worldview. We fail to take this into consideration so many times when we discuss the outside influences on the native dancers. They do very distinctly Arab things with those outside influences and this is why I refuse to give the West credit for being that influential on the dance. It IS an Arab dance, through and through!!
    <snip>

    It is true that regardless of the foreign influences in Egypt, what was created was something that was still essentially Egyptian, (I said exactly that). This happens with every culture. This is precisely why the dance in America is essentially an AMERICAN dance regardless of the fact that it is of Middle Eastern origin. When people borrow elements from other cultures, they always assimilate them from the perspective of their cultural imprint and world view. Like when I was in Trinidad my friends took my to have some "American food", pizza. Except that they used cheddar cheese instead of mozzarella and then they'd slather it with ketchup and mustard!

    This is why we have to work so hard to learn and express the dance from an Egyptian aesthetic and they don't. So while Raks Sharki as we know it could not have developed without those foreign elements and concepts, what they created was something that was still Egyptian. They may have borrowed the concept of traveling in space from ballroom, but they executed it with the body language of an Egyptian and with an emotional interpretation of the music that was Egyptian. We still have to acknowledge the different elements that contributed to its development, but pointing this out in no way diminishes from it being a product of Egyptian culture and artistic ingenuity.
    now you see if we had actually met when you were here, I wouldn't have taken you to mario's pizza or pizza hut (where i suspect you went) but Joe's, Papa John's or Risotrante Gibraldi...they use mozzarella on their pizza's and you definitely don't need ketchup to eat them!!!!

    points well noted btw.

  8. #28
    V.I.P. Mya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayshier View Post
    now you see if we had actually met when you were here, I wouldn't have taken you to mario's pizza or pizza hut (where i suspect you went) but Joe's, Papa John's or Risotrante Gibraldi...they use mozzarella on their pizza's and you definitely don't need ketchup to eat them!!!!

    points well noted btw.
    I thought the same thing!

  9. #29
    V.I.P. Tarik Sultan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayshier View Post
    now you see if we had actually met when you were here, I wouldn't have taken you to mario's pizza or pizza hut (where i suspect you went) but Joe's, Papa John's or Risotrante Gibraldi...they use mozzarella on their pizza's and you definitely don't need ketchup to eat them!!!!

    points well noted btw.
    Yeah, but what would have been the fun in that? Pizza hut is ..... corporate American Pizza, Marios is Trini Pizza!

  10. #30
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan View Post
    3. They began using the term Sharki to differentiate it from the Western dances.

    "The term Raqs Sharqi first came about when Egypt was occupied by foreign powers. "Raqs Sharqi", which actually translates as "Oriental Dance” or “Eastern Dance”, was used to distinguish the dance from European, or western, dances. ("Orient” as opposed to “occident”.)


    4. The fact that the term Baladi is often used in the same way to denote the native dance of the region as versus foreign dances. Therefore, the terms Sharki and Baladi are sometimes used interchangeably depending on the context.

    In the same way, “Raqs Baladi” was used to differentiate between "native" or "local" dance and foreign dances.
    Interestingly, this use conflicts with Dr Mo Geddawi's research. He believes that raqs sharqi was adopted to differentiate the dance in the nightclubs from that of the ordinary people (raqs beledi).

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