Let's talk combinations

[jenc]

I just went to a Workshop on Combinations> I was expecting to learn some twiddly bits and fit things to music.

what i got was how to recognise Maksoum and then a couple of simple combos in the 4 of this 4 of that style and how you could fit them to any music with maksoum rythmn.

I then had to invent my own "combination" 4 of this 4 of that style to a steady drum beat track. I couldn't do it!! And I loathe counted routines with a passion.

Am i out of step?? What do combinations mean to you. do you find this a useful concept!!

PS I booked myself into a Level 2 workshop on the grounds that if level 4 is professional, I have a long way to go before that!!!!

 

[Marya]

I just went to a Workshop on Combinations> I was expecting to learn some twiddly bits and fit things to music.

what i got was how to recognise Maksoum and then a couple of simple combos in the 4 of this 4 of that style and how you could fit them to any music with maksoum rythmn.

I then had to invent my own "combination" 4 of this 4 of that style to a steady drum beat track. I couldn't do it!! And I loathe counted routines with a passion.

Am i out of step?? What do combinations mean to you. do you find this a useful concept!!

PS I booked myself into a Level 2 workshop on the grounds that if level 4 is professional, I have a long way to go before that!!!!

I have found combinations mean different things to different teachers. Aisha Azar calls combinations phrasing and teaches how different Egyptian dancers (Mona, Fifi etc) have used three or more steps or movements together and/or layered.

Other combination classes I have taken usually are just steps or movements strung together that the instructor had decided fit together really well. I concluded that they were kind of like a 30 second choreography.

Using Aisha's curriculum it is easy to create combinations between or within movement families. Out of the 10 fundamentals choose one movement or step from three different families or three variations of a movement from within the same movement group and you are on your way. Walking is always available for a transition.

Until recently I did this without really thinking about it but have played around with it and have had a lot of fun and success.

Of course fitting the movements to the music may require some adapting of which steps or movements are used.

four of this and four of that may just be a teaching technique, certainly you are not required to be symmetrical when you perform.

Marya

 

[jenc]

Well this was 4 in place, 4 travelling. 4 of either and 4 of transition step to get your other foot free.
That was IT!!!
That for me is baby beginner dancing - although, I know that a lot of people who rate themselves as Egyptian dancers dance like that I DO NOT!!!

Over half the workshop was put together your own random set of steps!

I see this sounds somewhat similar to A'isha but I don't think so

 

[Kharis]

I then had to invent my own "combination" 4 of this 4 of that style to a steady drum beat track. I couldn't do it!!

Can I ask you why not? What was it about this that you couldn't do?

 

[jenc]

good question I have been asking myself if this is something I should be able to>

I did not have music - I did not have mood. It was just a question of putting together random movements with no reason to choose one over the other.

Now I am beginning to think that perhaps looking at choreo would help me in improv - but always with the view of what could I dance to this music

 

[Aniseteph]

I think of combination workshops same as Marya:

steps or movements strung together that the instructor had decided fit together really well. I concluded that they were kind of like a 30 second choreography.

...which isn't my thing cos I can't remember. I would go to A'isha's version like a shot though, that sounds intriguingly techniquey and a lot of fun.

The only point of that 4-4-4 exercise I can see is to reinforce the idea of getting your feet/weight in the right place for the next step. I know I don't think that hard if I'm improvising - I suppose I rely on muscle memory from class. And choreographing I just thrash it out till it works.

Now I am beginning to think that perhaps looking at choreo would help me in improv - but always with the view of what could I dance to this music

Doing lots of class choreographies have helped me I'm sure. It has put movements in context with music and what comes next and I feel like I'm learning about the intent and flow and phrasing along with the plain ol' "moves", if that makes any sense. Doing my own choreography reinforces it.

 

[Safran]

I've only taken one workshop so far which was specifically about combinations - it was with Aziza and concentrated on travilling steps. She taught little sets of two or three elements put together and I found it really helpful. It made me see how you can make your entrances/exits/travelling on the stage more varied. It doesn't have to be 32 beats of the same kind of elements, it can be a lot more fun!

 

[jenc]

Yeah that's more what i was expecting. I didn't need to pay out to travel to London, plus workshop fees to be told to put my habitual moves together!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kharis]

good question I have been asking myself if this is something I should be able to>

I did not have music - I did not have mood. It was just a question of putting together random movements with no reason to choose one over the other.

Now I am beginning to think that perhaps looking at choreo would help me in improv - but always with the view of what could I dance to this music

You didn't have music...what nothing? What were you doing the combos to, drum patterns? Or nothing at all?

 

[jenc]

A steady track of maksoum rythmn................

 

[alosha]

i would be very dissappointed

 

[Kharis]

A steady track of maksoum rythmn................

Ok... but I think perhaps the whole point of this was for drilling, and that the moves could be pulled out without the need for 'mood'. It's a case of making you think for yourself, rather than being inspired by the music, of which you had none. I often make my students improvise to a basic and repetitive drum pattern. I expect them to be able to pull out different combos with or without thinking. It's good basic exercise. Bit like finger exercises when learning to play the piano. You cannot expect to play a concerto without the drilling exercises. This never changes. No matter how experienced you are. Ballerinas still take part in basic drilling exercises even when they reach top level.

 

[Phoebedances]

I think Kharis is probably right on the point of the workshop. When I was taking dance from Faten we used a gymnasium in part of a very old catholic church that had been turned into a Hispanic Community center. One of the drills we used to do was going all the way accross the floor doing a series of different hips for 4 counts, a turn, a walk, hips around, etc. All different combinations to get used to the shifts in weight, how to transition between moves and how to get past thinking about it and just moving with it.

When I dance or make up steps, sometimes I will do 4 of this and 4 of that, sometimes it is following the phrase. It just depends on the music and what it is doing at the time.

One thing I like to do actually is to break up the 4's a bit. Like 3 hip drops going back and then a half circle in to get back to the front. Or you could do 4 hip drops back and then an undulation and a chest circle. Nothing to say that you have to do 4 of anything, you can always make that last count something slightly different.

Playing with the moves is the most fun and I think a good way to interject individuality in a traditional dance form.

added: got to thinking.. also another thing to do is to vary the speed of moves. Like a hip up to the front on 1-2 and to the back on 3-4, then second time two hips to the front 1,2 and two to the back 3,4. or you can really slow something down and take an entire 4 or eight count depending on the move such as a chest circle, undulation, hip circle, Egyptian fall. All of this adds variety mixing fast and slow, playing with the moves. It can be fun to do a slow hip circle with one combination, then some fast omi in another. This is what the drills that you do are leading up to (hopefully) to free you from thinking about the mechanics of a move by imbedding them in muscle memory so you can concentrate on showing the music through the moves later.

 

[Jane]

I think I would have been dissapointed too.

From what you said Jen, learning to do simple improvisation with transitions and basic weight shifts is a different skill set; I wouldn't describe it as learning a combo. This is what your local teacher should be doing with you!

In a "combo specific" workshop I would have been expecting finished mini-choreographies in a specific style to use with common musical motifs. Maybe I have high expectations when I pay a lot of money!

 

[Aisha Azar]

Combinations

I just went to a Workshop on Combinations> I was expecting to learn some twiddly bits and fit things to music.

what i got was how to recognise Maksoum and then a couple of simple combos in the 4 of this 4 of that style and how you could fit them to any music with maksoum rythmn.

I then had to invent my own "combination" 4 of this 4 of that style to a steady drum beat track. I couldn't do it!! And I loathe counted routines with a passion.

Am i out of step?? What do combinations mean to you. do you find this a useful concept!!

PS I booked myself into a Level 2 workshop on the grounds that if level 4 is professional, I have a long way to go before that!!!!

Dear Jen,
First of all, if this was in the Egyptian style, you probably would not be doing four of anything, but more likely three of it and then something else, even within 4-4 rhythms, because that is how the music is usually played and danced, if that makes sense. Lebanese music is often different than that and maybe that is what was being taught, so I am not really in a position to say more than that until I am clear on what she professed to be teaching.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[jenc]

Dear Jen,
First of all, if this was in the Egyptian style, you probably would not be doing four of anything, but more likely three of it and then something else, even within 4-4 rhythms, because that is how the music is usually played and danced, if that makes sense. Lebanese music is often different than that and maybe that is what was being taught, so I am not really in a position to say more than that until I am clear on what she professed to be teaching.
Regards,
A'isha

Well this was to Egyptian music - when there was anything..... but we had to make up a combination to a Maksoum teaching track ie just a rythmn.

To Kharis I thought myself that this was the sort of thing that my teacher shold be doing but doesn't but apparently this was a revelation to everyone else who thought it a great workshop.

Probably this is something that I should be able to do as an exercise, but it wasn't what I was expecting, I didn't feel comfortable. I was also very unhappy that I had spent over £50 including travel on something I should have been able to get for £5 at class. I got stuck on the idea that was being sold that I would be able to make up something that would fit in to any music with a maksum rythmn and that paralyzed me. Realistically, I should have looked on it as just an exercise that may, or may not have produced something useful with some types of music!!

I have decided follwing this experience and a couple of others to look at actually choreographing a piece of music, and putting moves together in a more conscious way than I usually do so that I can look at using different movements from my default moves - which is what I had hoped to get from a workshop on combinations!!

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance etc.

Dear Jen,

Well this was to Egyptian music - when there was anything..... but we had to make up a combination to a Maksoum teaching track ie just a rythmn.

I can see where that might have been very frustrating and disappointing.

Probably this is something that I should be able to do as an exercise, but it wasn't what I was expecting, I didn't feel comfortable. I was also very unhappy that I had spent over £50 including travel on something I should have been able to get for £5 at class. I got stuck on the idea that was being sold that I would be able to make up something that would fit in to any music with a maksum rythmn and that paralyzed me. Realistically, I should have looked on it as just an exercise that may, or may not have produced something useful with some types of music!!

I think that I agree you should have gotten something more for your money, from what you explain above.

I have decided follwing this experience and a couple of others to look at actually choreographing a piece of music, and putting moves together in a more conscious way than I usually do so that I can look at using different movements from my default moves - which is what I had hoped to get from a workshop on combinations!!

I think a good instructor in a workshop situation goes into the class hoping to have something for everyone. I believe that the first function of an instructor is an awareness of the needs of the students. I go into a workshop situation with a flexible agenda and hand-out notes for the students. I explain at the beginning that we will try to stay on task with the note plan, but if necessary we will diverge from it when we need to. I also suggest that people add their own notations to my basic instructions as they speak the dance in their own language. I teach phrasing as a suggestion only, because there are so many ways to interpret a section of music. I also make it clear that we may or may not get to everything on the plan.

I hope your next workshop is a far more satisfactory experience.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[jenc]

PS I can't remember as I have deleted the confirmation, but I believe that the title included "spice up your dancing" with combos not drilling.

Although I am perfectly willing to concede that this would be a useful skill.

 

[shiradotnet]

Jen, without having been in the class with you, I can't fully comment, but here are some thoughts:

1. I can see benefit to dancing to a drum track, because it helps people who may have never had musical training find and recognize the beat. I think that's appropriate for a workshop advertised as Level 2, because it that point many people may not yet have learned what a maqsoum is and how to recognize it.

2. I think of combinations as being conceptually similar to learning brief phrases that illustrate a grammatical rule when learning a foreign language. For example, if someone was learning English as a second language, that person could learn the words for "she", "to dance", "good", and "well", but learning the phrase "She dances well" would help that person remember not only the individual vocabulary words but also how to create a sentence that properly conjugates the verb "to dance" and how to choose the adverb "well" instead of the adjective "good". So in dance, a combination is a "phrase" that helps you put together individual basic moves in a flow that makes sense with the rhythm and music and looks interesting to watch. If you drill it a whole bunch of times, it will become automatic, enabling you to incorporate it into your dancing automatically once you find yourself working with music that it fits. Just as I don't stop to think about saying, "Comment ça va?" ("How's it going?") when I speak French - I drilled it a lot when I was learning the language, and now it just comes out when the situation is appropriate to use it.

3. Without knowing what kind of guidance and feedback (if any) you were given when creating your own combinations, it's hard for me to say whether that was presented in a way that had value. For example, if the instructor explained concepts to you such as call and response and how to create combinations that pick up such nuances in the music, then it was probably good instruction. But if the instructor just told you to pick stuff out of the air that went with the drum beat, then it perhaps wasn't as useful as it could have been. I think it's good to take a class that pushes you to create your own - otherwise, when you start performing your dances will look like a pale imitation of your teacher's style. The key is that such a class should include some guidance in how to create your own material, and from what you've posted it's hard for me to tell whether you received such guidance.

 

[SmilingMarie]

It is always unfortunate when you've spent a good deal of time and money on something and end up disappointed - have you taken this up with the instructor?
I can see why you might have exoected diffent things from the workshop - but as has been mentioned this sometimes happens. And I guess at level 2, maybe some people have a hard time actually moving about? Maybe they tend to just stand there when improvising (either that or mill about the stage until out of breath) and the teacher was trying to give you all some ideas on how to easily vary your moves AND your position on the stage and standing still vs moving about a bit (this def makes sense to me although I might have taught it sligthly differently).
I hope your next venture out proves more up your alley - and good luck with the choreo!