Hiding The Face?

Oresai

New member
The weird bellydance accessories thread got me thinking....there are some face veils in there (and a weird seafood costume, eek! :shok:)
But I was wondering where the face veil tradition in dance came from, if there is one? Please forgive any ignorance on this subject.
When I made my first, basic costume, I added a chiffon face veil. This was impulsive and entirely because it made me feel less shy....in a critical world, aware of not being `pretty` etc, well, being able to `hide` like that made me feel more confident in my dancing....even though I`m limited to my livingroom and the only folks watching were my loved ones! :redface:
I kinda like the concept of a face veil, a pretty one, that maybe matches the costume, or a whisper of chiffon or silk that just hides the features and suggests beauty beneath (even if, for me, it isn`t really there, :lol: )
but was wondering if anyone could tell me more about face veils please, and what is a good one, or a bad one? Are there rules about wearing one? Is there history behind them? :)
 

lizaj

New member
The weird bellydance accessories thread got me thinking....there are some face veils in there (and a weird seafood costume, eek! :shok:)
But I was wondering where the face veil tradition in dance came from, if there is one? Please forgive any ignorance on this subject.
When I made my first, basic costume, I added a chiffon face veil. This was impulsive and entirely because it made me feel less shy....in a critical world, aware of not being `pretty` etc, well, being able to `hide` like that made me feel more confident in my dancing....even though I`m limited to my livingroom and the only folks watching were my loved ones! :redface:
I kinda like the concept of a face veil, a pretty one, that maybe matches the costume, or a whisper of chiffon or silk that just hides the features and suggests beauty beneath (even if, for me, it isn`t really there, :lol: )
but was wondering if anyone could tell me more about face veils please, and what is a good one, or a bad one? Are there rules about wearing one? Is there history behind them? :)


Cheesy, bad, can be seen as disrespecting Islamic dress so best avoided.
Of course others see it as a harmless fantasy but I think it's better to play safe.
 

Maria_Aya

New member
The weird bellydance accessories thread got me thinking....there are some face veils in there (and a weird seafood costume, eek! :shok:)

This could be Eskandarani dress with net veil, very traditional style from Alexandria, so its not wierd.

But I was wondering where the face veil tradition in dance came from, if there is one? Please forgive any ignorance on this subject.

Its more a fantasy thing, that comes from the Orientalism time (Harem's style etc)
If you want to be considered a serious dancer from the bellydance community better avoid it.



When I made my first, basic costume, I added a chiffon face veil. This was impulsive and entirely because it made me feel less shy....in a critical world, aware of not being `pretty` etc, well, being able to `hide` like that made me feel more confident in my dancing....even though I`m limited to my livingroom and the only folks watching were my loved ones! :redface:
I kinda like the concept of a face veil, a pretty one, that maybe matches the costume, or a whisper of chiffon or silk that just hides the features and suggests beauty beneath (even if, for me, it isn`t really there, :lol: )....
but was wondering if anyone could tell me more about face veils please, and what is a good one, or a bad one? Are there rules about wearing one? Is there history behind them? :)
.....
 

maria_harlequin

New member
I agree with the others :( Wearing a face veil is insensitive to Muslim culture no matter how good your intentions are. It's like a mockery of the hijab. Even wearing one in front of audience that may not know a thing about Islamic culture is still terrible because you're playing the harem girl in a western man's fantasy. Not good for belly dancers.

I know most dancers don't mean any harm and want to play up the "mystery" but I always, always cringe when I see a dancer wear a face veil. It distracts me from the dance no matter how beautiful the dance is.


This is an example of how a face veil distracts me - gorgeous costume, amazing technique - face veil? Cringe! Of course this one isn't as bad as some of them out there...
 

Marya

Member
If one is performing a folkoric (or Reda style fakeloric) face veils are sometimes an appropriate part of the costume, as Maria Aya pointed out. Face veils are frequently used in Bandari, the Iranian folkdance, Melaya Leff and Guedra. (the veil in Guedra is draped over the head rather than below the eyes. these are the ones I can think of today.

Marya
 

Oresai

New member
Okies, thanks for the responses :) I understand now. For myself, I didn`t realise the religious issues behind one and was thinking only aesthetics. I still don`t see anything aesthetically wrong with some of them, but do appreciate the religious or cultural sensitivity so will avoid them.
Thanks again. :)
 

lizaj

New member
Okies, thanks for the responses :) I understand now. For myself, I didn`t realise the religious issues behind one and was thinking only aesthetics. I still don`t see anything aesthetically wrong with some of them, but do appreciate the religious or cultural sensitivity so will avoid them.
Thanks again. :)


Neither did I when I first started. I learnt all about these considerations on forum...there ya go.:)
And yes they can look very pretty and if you were doing a take off of the "Hollywood" cheesy image/dreaming of jeannie image ..that's probably appropriate.
 

Salome

Administrator
I think it's great you asked! Good job :cool: And being informed - are sensitive to what's been mentioned.

I remember being at a festival and there was a person in the crowd in belly dance costume, wearing an opaque face veil. Covering is for modesty... The juxtaposition of her rack, pushed up with miles of cleavage and her face covered was... not right.
 

Kashmir

New member
But I was wondering where the face veil tradition in dance came from, if there is one? Please forgive any ignorance on this subject < ... snip ...> but was wondering if anyone could tell me more about face veils please, and what is a good one, or a bad one? Are there rules about wearing one? Is there history behind them? :)
I have a veil page in my traditional clothing section
Veils. (This has some history and photos of some of the variations)

Basically it is one interpretation of the requirement for Muslims to cover the head when at prayer (there is a link on the page to a discussion on this that looks at what the Koran actually says on this). This requirement applies to both men and women. That said many non-Muslim women in the Middle East also cover their hair.

On the whole, except for milay lef (sometimes), I would never use a face veil. It is cheesy. It makes it hard to breath. And if worn with a bare belly I think insulting to the reason why the veil is worn in the first place (I'll hide my face but show my hair, my hands and arms, my legs and my belly :mad: )
 
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Farasha Hanem

New member
special student, new costume

Okay, let me open up a can of worms. :confused: Last Thursday, my classmates and I went with our teacher to her teacher's class for dress rehearsal for the ren faire we'll be performing in this weekend. In my teacher's teacher's class, she has a student whom I believe is Mongoloid (she has the physical features of Mongoloidism [sp?]), or has some sort of mental challenge. She's an unbelievably wonderful dancer; she performed a couple of solos at the last ren faire. She's very child-like and innocent, very sweet. At the class, she wore her new costume her mother had bought her for the performance. Her costumes are quite modest, she really doesn't show much flesh (I don't think she bared her belly at the last ren faire), and her new costume includes (you guessed it) a coin-trimmed chiffon veil. :confused: Is it best to just not say anything in a case like this, or what? :think:
 

maria_harlequin

New member
Okay, let me open up a can of worms. :confused: Last Thursday, my classmates and I went with our teacher to her teacher's class for dress rehearsal for the ren faire we'll be performing in this weekend. In my teacher's teacher's class, she has a student whom I believe is Mongoloid (she has the physical features of Mongoloidism [sp?]), or has some sort of mental challenge. She's an unbelievably wonderful dancer; she performed a couple of solos at the last ren faire. She's very child-like and innocent, very sweet. At the class, she wore her new costume her mother had bought her for the performance. Her costumes are quite modest, she really doesn't show much flesh (I don't think she bared her belly at the last ren faire), and her new costume includes (you guessed it) a coin-trimmed chiffon veil. :confused: Is it best to just not say anything in a case like this, or what? :think:

Hide the veil right before the performance? Just kidding!

I think it's better to have someone mention something rather than not say anything and end up offending people later. You might have your teacher say something to her and her mother that the veil may be appropriate for certain environments (like in class) but for other performances, it may be best not to wear it.
 

Reen.Blom

New member
Gosh, why not let her dance with it? We are all trying to be so PC here... but i think it all depends on a person... one thing if its some sex kitten with her boobs perched up to her chin with a face veil on top, then it looks like some 'harem fantasy'.

But if it looks modest, why not????? She's not a pro afer all, just out to have fun. She likes it? Let her have it!

Just my 2 cents
 

shiradotnet

Well-known member
Gosh, why not let her dance with it? We are all trying to be so PC here... but i think it all depends on a person... one thing if its some sex kitten with her boobs perched up to her chin with a face veil on top, then it looks like some 'harem fantasy'.

But if it looks modest, why not????? She's not a pro afer all, just out to have fun. She likes it? Let her have it!

Because some of us believe that whenever this dance is performed for the public, we should present it in a way that is respectful of the cultures it comes from. And because some of us believe that cultural knowledge is part of what we should be teaching to our students.

Every time we perform belly dance in public, we add a data point to the public's perception of what this dance form is all about. Face veils are not part of a "real" belly dance costume - they're part of the Hollywood-created fantasy involving seduction of Sultans, harems full of scantily-clad women lolling about in see-through chiffon, etc. (Before anyone challenges me on this statement by pointing out that it is sometimes worn for melaya leff, let me just say that I don't consider folk troupe material to be belly dancing. In fact, Mahmoud Reda himself doesn't consider his dance form to be belly dancing.)

Back to the topic at hand...

If the student wanted to wear her face veil at home when practicing, then sure, let her wear it. But for a Renaissance Faire performance for the general public? Nope, not appropriate.

I think a belly dance teacher has a responsibility to teach her students a bit about Middle Eastern culture, above and beyond how to execute dance technique. This is a dance form from another culture after all, and it was shaped by that culture. You don't have to spend half of each class lecturing, but tidbits here and there as appropriate to what's happening in class would be important. And "Oh, I see your mother bought you a costume. The top and skirt are fine, but it would really be better if you don't wear the face veil...." would be part of that cultural education.
 

Reen.Blom

New member
Well I suppose that's where my opinion differes. Its the skimpy outfits that make the harem fantasy, not the face veil...

Suppose, to everone their own :)
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Any adult who takes serious offense at a Down's Syndrome child's costume probably has more issues than can be solved by leaving a veil at home. Children can get very attached to their costumes. My daughter wore a tiara to school every day for three months in the third grade. Though not particularly appropriate, it hurt no one and made her very, very happy. If the child is attached to her face veil, I'd let her wear it, though I might ask her to dance without it just so the audience could see her sweet face.
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
If the child is attached to her face veil, I'd let her wear it, though I might ask her to dance without it just so the audience could see her sweet face.

I agree with this, but you know what?

if I saw this, part of me would question if this girl has been given a face veil to hide the fact that she is Down Syndrome or something?

I am just happy to hear that she is dancing well and doing solo's.. I hope she ditches the veil of her own accord and chooses her own costumes in future.
 

Darbla

New member
Farasha didn't say whether the child was attached to it or not. I'd take Maria's suggestion to have the teacher explain the cultural significance to the mother didn't know. Then the mother can gently dissuade the child from using the veil ("Dear, I made this new accessory for your costume but the veil doesn't work with it. Let's try it without the veil.") until she forgets about it.

But if the child IS attached to the veil, then I'd give sensitivity to the individual preference over sensitivity to the culture in this case. And still try to distract her with other pretty costume pieces to get her mind eventually off the veil. ;)
 
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