I Can't Do Flutter

npeterko

New member
After trying for 4 years, I still can't do flutter. Don't understand which muscle to use. Do I push out? Do I hold in? Do I use the breath? Do I use the lower abs. at all? Do I move the ribcage? Please, please help!
 

Kashmir

New member
After trying for 4 years, I still can't do flutter. Don't understand which muscle to use. Do I push out? Do I hold in? Do I use the breath? Do I use the lower abs. at all? Do I move the ribcage? Please, please help!
You use your diaphragm - that's the muscle in the v between the bottom of your ribs. Do not use the lower abs at all.

Try and not use your breath or you'll faint. However, if need be use your breath to find your diaphragm. Breathe out expanding your belly; breathe in emptying your belly.
 

npeterko

New member
Thank you Kashmir for the reply. I know how to move my diaphragm, but not much. Many times teachers show me their perfect flutters but can't tell how to get there. Any tips on how to practice? Thanks.
 

Salome

Administrator
Do I push out? Do I hold in? Do I use the breath? Do I use the lower abs. at all? Do I move the ribcage?

The flutter is a contraction and release of the diaphram muscle. You do not move the ribs, nor the abs and no fast in and out breathing (actually you hold your breath). The shimmy is created because the contraction and relase happens in very quick successsion. And a totally vital element that many dvd's and teachers forget to pass on is that your abdominal muscles need to be really relaxed. Think of when you generate a shimmy with your hips, if you are tensing all your muscles, you are not allowing the shimmy to travel up and happen - you're fighting it. Only when you have developed the skill to contract and release your diaphram rapidly AND relax your abs will you get that nice, juicy, rippling shimmy across your tummy.

Any tips on how to practice? Thanks.
Contract the diaphram. Over and over and over and over again. You can also do little strength building by placing your finger tips in the V (where Kashmir said) pushing your fingers in and then use your diaphram to push them out. Create resistance preasure. Kashmir made an excellent point about not using your breath to create it but that it can be a helpful temporary tool to figure out and connect to the diaphram. Just like learning any other shimmy, don't focus on going fast at first. Just build up to a contract/release in nice and even 'pulses'. Do that until you're really solid at it. Set a goal for yourself to build up to, say, 15 contractions in 5 seconds. When you get to that point. Hold your breath, totally relaxing your tummy and... shimmy that diaphram :D

Just for fun, I counted my flutter right now and I get in about 30 contractions in 5 seconds. It's very easy for me to do now BUT I remember it took practice to be able to do it, then more practice to be able to sustain it (for longer than 2 seconds) and then to do it in performance was another learning curve. You have to learn how to control your breathing while performing - just in general and especially to use the flutter. Dancing full force and in the middle of it all comfortably holding your breath for ten seconds or so and not look like your asfixiating :lol: Just stick with it and I bet you'll get a satisfying result :cool:
 
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su_raiya

New member
npeterko- don't worry - it takes time:D Be patient:)

You can also try to do it in a different position - put your hands over your bended knees, hold your breath and having your belly totally relaxed try to contract and release your diaphragm... at the beginning try to do it slowly to feel it and to understand what's happening in your body:) Do it for a short periods of time... but systematically:) When you feel ready try to make it faster, and faster... ;-)
Many of my students find it easier to start in this position but it is always very individual. You dance long enough to know your body well - you can try this method - maybe it will work for you:)
I keep my fingers crossed for your diaphragm:D

Suraiya:)
 
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Amulya

Moderator
I teach my students like this:
first to start with pulling in the stomach and let go. Make sure not to lift the chest at the same time. Repeat this movement slowly and breath slowly. You can spead it up, but very slowly and keep beathing slowly, there's the trick: if you start breathing with the movement it will look funny and you get out of breath. Most people can learn it in a few weeks time if they try it this way.
Good luck!
 

alosha

New member
so salome, when i make the goal to push my fingers out with my diaphragm, my lower abs go a bit too.... should i still practice pushing out and hopefully get it without the lower abs? and I can pull my diaphragm IN without using the abs, so maybe i'm halfway there?? :think:
 

SmilingMarie

New member
Salome, what an excellent explanation - everything makes sense now.
I've been in a workshop once where it was taught and I just remember the bit about the breathing. The instructor said to practice 'shallow breathing' ie breathing without using/filling the stomach, keeping the beath only in the upper chest area. Obvs this would be no good for longer periods of full force dancing but would still allow you to breathe whilst doing the flutter (breathing is always good! I often remind my students of this in class when they are engrossed in the latest move - sometimes they focus so hard they nearly forget!).
 

npeterko

New member
The flutter is a contraction and release of the diaphram muscle.
Thank you all for your input.

Salome, would you make sure that I understand your suggestions correctly?

--I need to practice "contract and release, contract and release, ..." . Not "expand and contract". Not "expand and release". Is this correct?

--When I contract my diaphram, my lower abs. goes a little with it. How do I isolate my diaphram completely?

--What kind of music would go along with this practice?

Thank you again for your support.
 

Shara

New member
Diaphragm Medical Information (image)

Understanding where the diaphragm is will help you. As you can see, it is attached to the ribs, so when you move it the ribs are going to move. The thing is, you are not trying to move the ribs... they will just naturally move when you move the diaphragm. The movement that the diaphragm makes is to expand the ribcage and inflate the lungs. Therefore, when you try to do your flutter, your ribcage my move a little bit, both up and down and in and out, just due to the action of the diaphragm, but it is not a pronounced movement or intentional movement on your part. That said, hold your breath and try to "breathe". Now that you know what and where your diaphragm is, try everything mentioned above.
 

Gia al Qamar

New member
I'm re-posting this from a previous post on the subject...hope it helps!
Gia

********
I teach a flutter in stages.
First is to locate your diapraghm...which is just under the "V" of your rib cage. Panting (especially on 'all fours') will help you locate it!
To create the 'flutter', you have to create a 'vacuum' by exhailing and then holding your breath. While holding your breath, raise your rib cage and "laugh"...a big 'belly' laugh and you'll find that you should be able to move the muscle around the upper abs.
Let me know how you make out!
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
I'm going to give all your tips a go. I haven't been able to come even close to making any sort of flutter.
 

Corylus

New member
The tips you have all given are great, I am trying to teach myself the flutter at the moment.

Looking at an image of what the diaphragm looks like and where it is was helpful to me. It helped me to imagine it moving and where the move should be coming from which I couldn't seem to picture in my mind before.
 

Ruby~<3

New member
Im a singer so really its a diaphram thing. really you need to start with learning to breath from there instead of being tense and maybe using your shoulders. its a gut breath you want your upper belly to fill up then flat down. its good to start with the breathing but only slow breathing or you could get light headed. so i started by taking in deep breaths and trying to not use my cholders but use my belly. then exhale let the air out. Its like yoga in a way its relaxing.

a tip my chorus teacher gave me is to lay on your back and put a small not too heavy book on your diaphram and do the slow breathing exerise when you see the book moving up and down you know your breathing right.

my dance instructor does panting. using the diaphram like before but faster(not tooo many times or you will get light headed)

then from there you start to flutter by in hailing then exhailing and while exhailing you stop the rest of the air from comming out. holding your breath. then is in the diaphram its hard to explain its like a laugh.. like Gia al Qamar said.


hope that was some help.

Ruby C :D
 

Elextrica

New member
I had a really hard time learning flutter and it took me quite a few years to get comfortable with it. i found the only way for me to do it was by using Kalabati breathing (a yoga technique) - it is when you contract your abs quickly and sharply (repeatedly), which forces air out of your lungs. Its like your hyperventilating, but you arent. you just have to remember not to conciously inhale (or exhale) - you dont even think about your breathing really, you just contract and release your abs quickly and sharply and the air is forced in and out of your lungs by your movements.
This is how i started. then, once your comfortable with that (which can take a few weeks actually), you can speed up the ab contractions and make them so that they are quite shallow - so not so sharp and severe. I am not sure as this is the proper technique, but it looks the same as a flutter and with practice i can do it for almost a minute without feeling dizzy (since you are breathing through it) - but it did take me a good year or two to be able to do this - i would just practice it when i was doing everyday chores and eventually i was able to do it well - but it took me a while, so hang in there!!!

Elextrica
 

alosha

New member
when I was finally told about the "just laugh" theory, I actually did it. For nearly two seconds. :D Must keep practicing...
 
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