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  1. #21
    Super Moderator gisela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizaj View Post
    Groan....Rather you than me!

    Can you get very drunk!?
    would probably be a pretty bad idea since I'm performing too. After these girls. I'm trying to stay open minded but it's hard as I'm suspecting I won't like it.
    immer glimmer

  2. #22
    V.I.P. lizaj's Avatar
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    Whatever we may approve of /dissaprove of I fear there would not be the support these days if hafla organisers did not allow leeway / experimental/ fusion whatever.
    I once asked if performers might apply a belly dance/Turkish/Egyptian theme..it just didn't happen some dancers think Shakira is as "authentic" as they need to get and I think I realised all hope was lost when someone danced to Molly Malone.
    ATS yes please.....it's a relief to see so much bellydance after seeing dancers wander (actually you see a lot of "wandering") around with masks,hide behind multifarious props and novelties, interpret the weather forecast.etc etc.......
    Frankly I would now rather see the excellent piece of Burley Fusion I saw at our last show than a bunch of girls naming themselves advanced dancers and attemping to dance or rather wander in various stages of elegance wafting "double veils" to Tarkan.
    Mostly I wish people would just try to do their best at haflas.

  3. #23
    V.I.P. lizaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gisela View Post
    would probably be a pretty bad idea since I'm performing too. After these girls. I'm trying to stay open minded but it's hard as I'm suspecting I won't like it.
    Good luck...we will all pray for you.....

    Open you mind and your a**e follows, they say!

  4. #24
    V.I.P. shiradotnet's Avatar
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    Once again, I'm going to attempt to raise a point that I just don't see people picking up on....

    Shouldn't we consider friends and family of hafla-goers to be the "general public", especially if they are accompanying beginner students who don't (yet) know much about belly dance?

    Shouldn't we take that into consideration when making decisions about what to present/allow at haflas?

    In other words, even at a hafla, not everybody in the audience will be an "insider" - shouldn't that influence what types of guidelines organizers set for performers and what types of dance are done?

  5. #25
    Moderator Amulya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanazel View Post
    Well, you certainly have a point, but I don't think haflas should always play to the lowest level of expertise, either.

    I agree, it's nice for newbies to see some profesional dancing as well. The hafla's they had in Holland had a very wide variety of dancers and skills. A beginner likes to see that.
    I have noticed that hafla's are set up differently in other countries. Here in Australia there's also a wide variety of dancers, but from what i heard in the US it's mostly students.

    I do think it might be better not to put the extremest versions of fusion (belly-clog-dancing-in-gaisha-costume) into a halfla, but a bit of tribal fusion or something wouldn't hurt.

  6. #26
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
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    Shouldn't we consider friends and family of hafla-goers to be the "general public", especially if they are accompanying beginner students who don't (yet) know much about belly dance?
    I understand where you are coming from, Shira, and to an extent, I agree with you. There is a difference to me between haflas where participants mainly gather to share a social occasion which includes dancing and haflas that are orchestrated for performance.

    Somewhere on the forum is a thread in which people gave their local definitions of hafla, performance, etc. Definitons varied considerably. When I say hafla, it refers to a private party of dancers and their friends and family. In this area, haflas tend to be quite intimate, whether I hold one in my home or my sister teacher holds one in her studio. A huge turnout would be twenty people. I would not regard these folks as the general public in need of clearly defined genres of belly dance or fusion. They are there to have fun, share an evening of dance, and discuss what they are seeing. I don't feel a need to constantly educate those around me; sometimes it is enough for them to entertain and be entertained.

    This being said, no one ever turns up at my halflas in Goth dress or dancing to Shakira or fusing ballet with belly dance. It's just the nature of our particular group of beasts to stick to AmCab though the other teacher's students tend more toward fusion (if I see anyone dance once more to snake bite or whatever the heck that Godsmack tune is, I will probably plotz).

    HOWEVER: in other areas, haflas are much closer to what I call performances, with larger audiences, more formality, and a better venue perhaps for education.

    I hope this makes sense.

  7. #27
    V.I.P. Jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiradotnet View Post
    Shouldn't we consider friends and family of hafla-goers to be the "general public", especially if they are accompanying beginner students who don't (yet) know much about belly dance?

    Shouldn't we take that into consideration when making decisions about what to present/allow at haflas?

    In other words, even at a hafla, not everybody in the audience will be an "insider" - shouldn't that influence what types of guidelines organizers set for performers and what types of dance are done?
    I'm hosting a hafla for my students at the end of the month. I think my definition of a hafla is very different from many peoples. We are decorating the studio and having a potluck with all Middle Eastern food. There will be music playing on the stereo, but anyone who wants to can pick up an instrument and go to town whenever. If people feel like dancing they will dance. If someone wants to recite some Rumi or Omar K., they will. Its a casual Middle Eastern theme party. If someone else gets a wild hair and wants to do a performance piece they have my blessing. They are all my student and their friends and family. My students have my belly dance values drilled into them as soon as they walk in the door. Goth Gypsy Pirate Burlesque Bat Wings would just never occur to them. At least I hope not!

    For haflas, the above questions just would not apply for my bunch.

    A student recital or showcase is a different animal entirely for me.

  8. #28
    V.I.P. lizaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    I'm hosting a hafla for my students at the end of the month. I think my definition of a hafla is very different from many peoples. We are decorating the studio and having a potluck with all Middle Eastern food. There will be music playing on the stereo, but anyone who wants to can pick up an instrument and go to town whenever. If people feel like dancing they will dance. If someone wants to recite some Rumi or Omar K., they will. Its a casual Middle Eastern theme party. If someone else gets a wild hair and wants to do a performance piece they have my blessing. They are all my student and their friends and family. My students have my belly dance values drilled into them as soon as they walk in the door. Goth Gypsy Pirate Burlesque Bat Wings would just never occur to them. At least I hope not!

    For haflas, the above questions just would not apply for my bunch.

    A student recital or showcase is a different animal entirely for me.
    Oh that makes my heart glow..that second to last line. Trouble is they get to a recital and see the double isis wings while doing poi and a tray dance in goth costuming and say...ooo can we do that next? This has happened to a teacher friend they saw an excellent burley fusion...oooo can we do that? My friend came to me with rolling eyes( as no they as not skilled enough in either art form just yet a bit)...now to turn their desire into a standard veil dance
    I suppose if we are inspired, we do want to emulate and dancers who are in it for fun, are not so worried about expertise. We are continuously told how this dance is all accepting and I think students believe they can attempt anything regardless of age, bodyshape,fitness they can be rachel brice or Dita Von teese. They forget that to attmpt an approximation you have still to do a lot of hard work, preparation and package yourself properly and seeing as you are entertaining people, will they enjoy us?
    We are often very self indulgent about trotting out our performances (yes been there !)..I am doing this for me and forgetting the 100 or so fellows and friends watching may be cringeing. Together with friends I often watch early performances and think what was I thinking aboutIn fact there's some newer ones as well!
    So yes I think I begin to take Shira's point about hafla /showcase performances.

  9. #29
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiradotnet View Post
    Once again, I'm going to attempt to raise a point that I just don't see people picking up on....

    Shouldn't we consider friends and family of hafla-goers to be the "general public", especially if they are accompanying beginner students who don't (yet) know much about belly dance?

    Shouldn't we take that into consideration when making decisions about what to present/allow at haflas?

    In other words, even at a hafla, not everybody in the audience will be an "insider" - shouldn't that influence what types of guidelines organizers set for performers and what types of dance are done?
    Well I picked up on it and wrestled myself to the floor

    I do struggle with this.. as you might of guessed.

    I will say it clearly, I love good fusion and I love good fun... now the education side..

    Firstly, correct labelling is essential anywhere.

    Secondly, can anyone recall a student haflah they have been to which was not over laden with novelty acts?

    I am sorry but on the whole, I do not find this 'interesting variety' but very predictable and often mind numbingly boring.

    I work on one annual student and teacher showcase at a theatre in my city and even this is a struggle to keep it strictly Middle Eastern.

    I was asked by a friend the other day if i would allow them to exchange sticks in their dance for umberella!! I nearly hit them

    Does anyone have an event near them which is just ME dance with no tricks or frills, or wench outfits?

    Is it only me who ever feels any despair about this... am I once again in the minority??? EEK

  10. #30
    V.I.P. shiradotnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilingMarie View Post
    An expansion on the question:
    how do people feel about bollywood or other dances being performed at haflas?

    I know I've had the discussion with fellow dancers and have experienced haflas featuring more bollywood/spanish/*other not so-strictly-bellydance styles* than actual bellydance...
    Well, it's obviously not belly dance.

    I wouldn't mind a couple of performances of other stuff like Bollywood or flamenco in what is otherwise a belly dance show, because that can break up the monotony of an endless stream of all the same thing. Sort of like fancy restaurants serving you sherbet to cleanse the palate before bringing the next course.

    However, if I went to a hafla that was advertised as "belly dance" but consisted primarily of acts that were Bollywood, flamenco, hip hop, etc. I'd probably complain to the organizer about false advertising. Such an event should be advertised as "world dance", NOT "belly dance".

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