Good for a hafla but not for the general public?

[shiradotnet]

Once in a while, we'll talk about types of belly dance performances that are "good for a hafla but not for the general public".

Examples I often hear mentioned in this vein:

• Performance by beginning students
• Performances by newcomers to soloing
• Dance of the seven veils
• Fusion of belly dance with burlesque

Now, one thing that occurs to me is that maybe certain dance types shouldn't be performed even at a 'belly dance" hafla. Why? Because a lot of the people who go to haflas are beginning students, their friends, their families, etc. I would consider a beginning student to be "general public" because they are new enough to our dance to not yet have much knowledge of what we're all about.

On my list above, I'm thinking that of course belly dance performances by beginning students and new soloists are appropriate to haflas. But some of the fusions? I'm thinking that even a normal belly dance hafla isn't really a good place for those. A beginner who doesn't yet have enough experience with our dance to know what is belly dance vs what is not could be very confused by fusions.

I think it's better if fusion performances are done at a theme event whose entire purpose is to allow for fusion and experimentation. And I think such a theme event shouldn't be called "belly dance", but rather "performance art" or "world dance fusion".

What do others think?

 

[Shanazel]

Well, you certainly have a point, but I don't think haflas should always play to the lowest level of expertise, either. Hairs can be split to the point where nothing of the original hair remains, and sometimes we are in danger of doing this in our fervor to keep belly dance "pure" or "authentic" or whatever term is currently preferred. Beginners are going to get confused, no matter what, and explanations in one venue are likely as valuable as explanations in another.

 

[SmilingMarie]

Shira, what an interesting topic. Shanazel - I think I agree with you.
At the haflas I have a hand in arranging I always make sure that all participants in the show inform organizers of what they will be performing (also to avoid that twp performers use the same music etc) AND that this is somehow conveyed to the audience. Ie if the audience will be treated to a soulful Oum Kalthoum they should know (and maybe even be treated to a summary of the lyrics). If a beginner troupe is on I know that they (the troupe) often prefer the audience to know that they are indeed beginners (maybe to lower expectations and with it the nerves of the dancers). Likewise, if a fusion number is coming up, this should be properly introduced.

A very embarrasing example comes to mind at a large bellydance show I attended (open to all levels). Participants were not screened or introduced and all of the sudden a group of ladies performing what can only be described as 'sexual dancing' took to the stage much to the shock and horror of the audience (well - this is my point of view, of course!)... With no introduction nobody knew what to think (can't imagine what ppl new to bellydance and their poor families mustn't have thought). I think the organizer might have started asking participants what they will perform (I hope so!)

 

[jenc]

Oh Shira that would be lovely but I'm afraid our local haflas would be very short indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lizaj]

Think you know my opiniuon on DOTSV, Shira from discussion on Bhuz.

But to answer your question. I think that what goes on at a hafla is very different concern to what is put before the GP.
Haflas are for the community to have fun together and for dancers of all experiences to show off what they have learnt/been practising.
Even so I think that dancer/students/teachers should do their best at haflas to be entertaining and tasteful. Their audience albeit dancers hae paid and can be discerning!

Comedy is best left to the skilled.

We are performing a dance that belongs to another culture and if we are dancing for an outside audience we have to be careful not to misrepresent it but I do not like to see it taken too far from its' origins be tht Cairo or San Francisco in whatever setting.
You can still have fun and be serious about the quality of your dance and presentation.

I was at a hafla recently where I was asked about my music..."It sounds like it was from an old foreign film!" Yes it was from the Golden Age of Egyptian Cinema! I was an oddity. I think one other teacher danced to a more tradtional track.This wasn't a concern as everyone did well rehearsed and entertaining fusions and were well costumed. But put acts like that before the untutored eye and you aught to do a lot of explaining.

Another problem I think is the tendancy to jump on the novelty, the latest prop. instead of trying to put on a neat and joyous piece of bellydance.

I also dislike to see people adopt a costume style and not match that to music or steps. For eg. Tribal costuming is very appealing to many students so we don the Kuchi and tassels and gulp...I see no ATS in any shape or form. Thinking back a few years I remember seeing a troupe wearing Indian dresses dancing a few tribal steps (badly) to Mohammed Abdel Wahab!
I think teachers should hae a sense of responsibilty to the culture and encourage their solo dancers to feel the same way but in the end it's difficult to straightjacket students.

More and more we are exposed to good practise and we should be endeavouring to raise standards in whatever setting.

At the another hafla I attended I mentioned to another dancer I needed to freshen up and lay on another layer of slap (make-up to you foreigners0 "Oh I never bother with that" was the reply. Er you should bother..at a hafla if you chose to perform you are not just a partygoer but an entertainer.

 

[shiradotnet]

But to answer your question. I think that what goes on at a hafla is very different concern to what is put before the GP.

I completely agree! Yes, I agree there should be more freedom in what we do at haflas than in what we do for the public.

Haflas are for the community to have fun together and for dancers of all experiences to show off what they have learnt/been practising.
Even so I think that dancer/students/teachers should do their best at haflas to be entertaining and tasteful. Their audience albeit dancers hae paid and can be discerning!

I actually do think there's room for fusions at haflas, despite what I said in my original post. But I think that fusions that come across as sexually aggressive or otherwise envelope-pushing might not be the best choice even for a hafla, due to the fact that even haflas have beginning students, friends, and families in attendance.

I have heard tales of people who took family members with them to haflas and when highly-sexualized burlesque/belly dance acts came on it destroyed all the work they had done to educate their families that belly dance is not about titillation.

 

[Shanazel]

Sexually aggressive fusion. Yeah, that could spoil the evening for a lot of people, for sure.

I went to a hafla once wherein a dancer performed in an extremely aggressive- to the point of being threatening- manner. I found myself actually trying to move my chair backwards during the dance when she glared at me. Later I made a point of going over to meet her and discovered her to be a friendly, somewhat shy individual who obviously had no idea how her dance persona came across. What was actually stage fright looked like hostility.

 

[teela]

I gave this alot of thought. I think if everyone is aware of the types of things that are being presented at the Hafla, then there isn't a problem with having various types of fusion, ATS, etc. However, I believe that the night should be advertised as a fusion, experimental, or world dance rather than a belly dance hafla. I have been at shows that were associated with workshops where people got upset over the numbers that ended up in the viewers area of discomfort either due to music or dance or whatever. I just think in the Hafla's I've been too recently, there is such a swing from the more traditional dance to fusion and the spirit of belly dance is getting lost.

 

[Safran]

Hmm, when I first read the title of the thread it was more about that haflas are a more accepting environment for different things. As the majority of the audience alreayd takes some interest in dance, you shouldn't worried they'll get bored through your very emotional piece on OK or some no-sequins-no-flash folcloric dance.

I do understand your point, Shira, because the dancer-events are the place you come see your local/regional idols and get an idea of the latest trends. However, it is up to the organisers of these events to ensure the quality of their event by selection at first (that also assumes they know the dance community they operate in). And then making sure they communicate what the performers are doing to the audience.

 

[gisela]

difficult question. I guess I stand by the old viewpoint that almost anything goes as long as it has the "right" introduction. If the performers have been careful enough to research and "correctly" name heir style then I would assume they have thought it through and taken an active and aware choice of performance.
I'm going to a recital this weekend where there will be performed some kind of group gothic fusion with dog leashes and whips (? maybe, can't remember now actually) and young girls crawling around on the floor. Interesting to see how it will be presented and how it will be recieved.

 

[Marya]

As a beginning student, I really resented my teacher's attempts to limit my exposure to other forms of Belly Dance. As a teacher, I have a little more understanding of the desire to control the environment for students but I still feel that it is not appropriate.

However, a big However, I strongly feel that at every event whether hafla or big theater, every opportunity should be taken to educate. An introduction of every performance, stating level of competency, music used, style of dance, even something about the cosutme is IMNSHO, appropriate.

The problem here is, of course, that there is no real way to control how the word Belly Dance or even Middle Eastern Dance (see An Evening of Experimental Middle Eastern Dance, for example) is used in the world. We can only rely on the integrity of ourselves as artists.

At one of the very first events I went to (Medfest in Seattle) one of my favorite performances was a troupe dressed up in furs carrying fake spears and dancing to some cute song about eating animals. It was entertaining, they danced well and had obviously put a lot of work into their costumes. Today I would probably go shop the vendors instead of watching their performance. I learned about the differences in styles by seeing a lot of them and then coming up with my own set of BD rules to live by.

Marya

 

[SmilingMarie]

An expansion on the question:
how do people feel about bollywood or other dances being performed at haflas? I know a lot of bellydancers try their hand at bollywood (or spanish-style etc) - but is it really bellydance?
I know I've had the discussion with fellow dancers and have experienced haflas featuring more bollywood/spanish/*other not so-strictly-bellydance styles* than actual bellydance...

 

[shiradotnet]

I'm sensing a prevailing attitude of "anything goes so long as it has the right introduction" on this thread.

Interesting.

I've been to countless haflas where the only introduction was the name of the dancer and MAYBE the city she was from. I don't think I've ever been to a hafla where each performer was introduced with a few words about the style she would be doing, the story she would be telling (if there was one), etc. Are there actually haflas like that out there?

But let's suppose that you DO have an informative introduction. Does that mean that even acts consisting of burlesque fusion or sexually aggressive hiphop should be just as welcome as, say, a Goth portraying a vampire? Should those dancers who are trying to convince their families that belly dance is NOT about seducing the Sultan need to avoid inviting their families to haflas for fear that one self-indulgent dancer stripping out of her bedleh down to pasties will un-do all the progress that people have made in educating their families?

Are there to be NO boundaries in what is accepted at a hafla?

I'm actually not saying that fusion should be banned from haflas. I'd have no problem with some ATS or Rachel Brice wannabes or vampires. I've been known to perform as a black cat, myself at a Halloween-themed hafla and an April Fool's day hafla. But I'm challenging the prevailing attitude that "anything goes at a hafla because it's our insiders".

My point is that hafla audiences DO INCLUDE the general public. Friends and family of performers = general public, especially friends and family of beginners.

 

[Marya]

I'm sensing a prevailing attitude of "anything goes so long as it has the right introduction" on this thread.

Interesting.

I've been to countless haflas where the only introduction was the name of the dancer and MAYBE the city she was from. I don't think I've ever been to a hafla where each performer was introduced with a few words about the style she would be doing, the story she would be telling (if there was one), etc. Are there actually haflas like that out there?

But let's suppose that you DO have an informative introduction. Does that mean that even acts consisting of burlesque fusion or sexually aggressive hiphop should be just as welcome as, say, a Goth portraying a vampire? Should those dancers who are trying to convince their families that belly dance is NOT about seducing the Sultan need to avoid inviting their families to haflas for fear that one self-indulgent dancer stripping out of her bedleh down to pasties will un-do all the progress that people have made in educating their families?

Are there to be NO boundaries in what is accepted at a hafla?

I'm actually not saying that fusion should be banned from haflas. I'd have no problem with some ATS or Rachel Brice wannabes or vampires. I've been known to perform as a black cat, myself at a Halloween-themed hafla and an April Fool's day hafla. But I'm challenging the prevailing attitude that "anything goes at a hafla because it's our insiders".

My point is that hafla audiences DO INCLUDE the general public. Friends and family of performers = general public, especially friends and family of beginners.

Actually, Shira if I could have it my way every time, there would be auditions and strict guidelines even for Haflas, but I only have it my way if I am producing the show and the performers are by invitation only, which basically puts it outside of the commonly used definition of a Hafla.

Marya

 

[SmilingMarie]

No, haflas where the dancer, music and maybe even background story to the choice of costuming/music are properly are scarce I am quite sure too. But it is a pet peeve of mine (just like informing of who the choreographer is)

But maybe there is a difference between the types of 'fusion' that are more accepted than the ones that aren't? I mean - I get the sense that anything too "seducing the Sultan"/burlesque/dropping the bedlah is off-limits and anything NOT sexy (but maybe scary etc) is ok?

I have an issue with burlesque and belly dance getting mixed up (in every way and by both performer and audience etc) - but maybe that is a different discussion (which I am sure has featured here but don't actually know). My feelings toward having burlesque at a bd event are probably different than my feelings about having a 'zombie-goth-fusion' - but the outcome the same (not that I ever get to exercise any power over haflas in this way btw). What I mean is that my reasons for not particularly being a fan of either are different. (it's been a long day - sorry!)

 

[dreamthief666]

i'm new to organising hafla's, but i welcome all forms and styles to be performed at my events, if anyone is unsure what style it was, the atmosphere is such that they can go up to the performer and ask them, i love all styles so enjoy seeing them performed, i'm lucky to have all level of performers, from dancers doing their first solos to seasoned pros, i think this is what makes a good mix, it's nice for new dancers to see what can be achived, and for the others it's refreshing to spot new talent.

 

[Shanazel]

I'm sensing a prevailing attitude of "anything goes so long as it has the right introduction" on this thread.

I wouldn't quite go that far. Burlesque and zombies and pierced wings are too far out of the world of belly dance for me, and I wouldn't like to see them at a hafla even if they were thoroughly explained. Everyone has their line in the sand about what is and isn't appropriate, and mine is drawn when the music, attire, and movement vocabulary have wandered away from that which has a distinct middle eastern flavor. I have mixed feelings about ATS, for example, but am willing to accept a dance or two in this style at a hafla.Dancers performing to industrial metal music while wearing black rags, seven inch gold talons, motorcycle boots, and incorporating hip hop movements are beyond the pale for me.

 

[Yshka]

I've been to countless haflas where the only introduction was the name of the dancer and MAYBE the city she was from. I don't think I've ever been to a hafla where each performer was introduced with a few words about the style she would be doing, the story she would be telling (if there was one), etc. Are there actually haflas like that out there?

Yes, one every Hafla we organise we state the name of the dancer, MAYBE where she is from (if that matters), but ALWAYS what style she is going to dance. Educating through Haflas will make the audience understand what the dance is about. Then again we also know who will be performing what before the Hafla so we will not have acts that are insulting/violent/sexual/fillintheblank or have nothing to do with bellydance.

Bollywood, Spanish Fusion, Tribal, however, I don't mind. As long as they are introduced as such! They are a nice addition to a hafla and also educate beginning dancers as to what they can expect to see at other hafla's, what bellydancers look for when they are interested in fusing dances, and what kind of dances bellydancers might be interested in next to Oriental dance.

A hafla or 'bellydance night' should focus on bellydance or "Oriental" dances mainly and not be tailored towards a certain group of dancers, except ofcourse if you want to attract only a certain type of dancers. Such an evening should be accessible to all kinds of dancers, and to my opinion an appropriate introduction for each dance will do just that. We need to be well informed at what goes on at our own hafla's and then inform our public so they know as well.

If you organise an open stage night however, you cannot make sure everything is appropriate. A dancer could enter claiming to be a professional dancing golden age Raqs Sharqi, and still be a bad dancer stripping down to her pasties while on stage. Whether they were misinformed in the first place or know exactly what they are doing is not an issue here, but then again it is our job as organisers to intervene or make a statement about it afterwards (reminds me of the kaya and sadie accident at Rakassah a few years back....). Let people know WE know what the dance is about and tell them through our hafla's what Oriental dance is and what not. If well done, people will understand.

 

[SmilingMarie]

Bollywood, Spanish Fusion, Tribal, however, I don't mind. As long as they are introduced as such! They are a nice addition...

yup!

 

[lizaj]

difficult question. I guess I stand by the old viewpoint that almost anything goes as long as it has the "right" introduction. If the performers have been careful enough to research and "correctly" name heir style then I would assume they have thought it through and taken an active and aware choice of performance.
I'm going to a recital this weekend where there will be performed some kind of group gothic fusion with dog leashes and whips (? maybe, can't remember now actually) and young girls crawling around on the floor. Interesting to see how it will be presented and how it will be recieved.

Groan....Rather you than me!

Can you get very drunk!?:lol: