gisela
Super Moderator
:lol: would probably be a pretty bad idea since I'm performing too. After these girls. I'm trying to stay open minded but it's hard as I'm suspecting I won't like it.Groan....Rather you than me!
Can you get very drunk!?:lol:
Good for a hafla but not for the general public?
- Thread starter shiradotnet
- Start date
lizaj
New member
Whatever we may approve of /dissaprove of I fear there would not be the support these days if hafla organisers did not allow leeway / experimental/ fusion whatever.
I once asked if performers might apply a belly dance/Turkish/Egyptian theme..it just didn't happen some dancers think Shakira is as "authentic" as they need to get and I think I realised all hope was lost when someone danced to Molly Malone.:doh:
ATS yes please.....it's a relief to see so much bellydance after seeing dancers wander (actually you see a lot of "wandering") around with masks,hide behind multifarious props and novelties, interpret the weather forecast.etc etc.......
Frankly I would now rather see the excellent piece of Burley Fusion I saw at our last show than a bunch of girls naming themselves advanced dancers and attemping to dance or rather wander in various stages of elegance wafting "double veils" to Tarkan.
Mostly I wish people would just try to do their best at haflas.
I once asked if performers might apply a belly dance/Turkish/Egyptian theme..it just didn't happen some dancers think Shakira is as "authentic" as they need to get and I think I realised all hope was lost when someone danced to Molly Malone.:doh:
ATS yes please.....it's a relief to see so much bellydance after seeing dancers wander (actually you see a lot of "wandering") around with masks,hide behind multifarious props and novelties, interpret the weather forecast.etc etc.......
Frankly I would now rather see the excellent piece of Burley Fusion I saw at our last show than a bunch of girls naming themselves advanced dancers and attemping to dance or rather wander in various stages of elegance wafting "double veils" to Tarkan.
Mostly I wish people would just try to do their best at haflas.
lizaj
New member
Good luck...we will all pray for you.....
Open you mind and your a**e follows, they say!
shiradotnet
Well-known member
Once again, I'm going to attempt to raise a point that I just don't see people picking up on....
Shouldn't we consider friends and family of hafla-goers to be the "general public", especially if they are accompanying beginner students who don't (yet) know much about belly dance?
Shouldn't we take that into consideration when making decisions about what to present/allow at haflas?
In other words, even at a hafla, not everybody in the audience will be an "insider" - shouldn't that influence what types of guidelines organizers set for performers and what types of dance are done?
Shouldn't we consider friends and family of hafla-goers to be the "general public", especially if they are accompanying beginner students who don't (yet) know much about belly dance?
Shouldn't we take that into consideration when making decisions about what to present/allow at haflas?
In other words, even at a hafla, not everybody in the audience will be an "insider" - shouldn't that influence what types of guidelines organizers set for performers and what types of dance are done?
Amulya
Moderator
I agree, it's nice for newbies to see some profesional dancing as well. The hafla's they had in Holland had a very wide variety of dancers and skills. A beginner likes to see that.
I have noticed that hafla's are set up differently in other countries. Here in Australia there's also a wide variety of dancers, but from what i heard in the US it's mostly students.
I do think it might be better not to put the extremest versions of fusion (belly-clog-dancing-in-gaisha-costume) into a halfla, but a bit of tribal fusion or something wouldn't hurt.
Shanazel
Moderator
I understand where you are coming from, Shira, and to an extent, I agree with you. There is a difference to me between haflas where participants mainly gather to share a social occasion which includes dancing and haflas that are orchestrated for performance.
Somewhere on the forum is a thread in which people gave their local definitions of hafla, performance, etc. Definitons varied considerably. When I say hafla, it refers to a private party of dancers and their friends and family. In this area, haflas tend to be quite intimate, whether I hold one in my home or my sister teacher holds one in her studio. A huge turnout would be twenty people. I would not regard these folks as the general public in need of clearly defined genres of belly dance or fusion. They are there to have fun, share an evening of dance, and discuss what they are seeing. I don't feel a need to constantly educate those around me; sometimes it is enough for them to entertain and be entertained.
This being said, no one ever turns up at my halflas in Goth dress or dancing to Shakira or fusing ballet with belly dance. It's just the nature of our particular group of beasts to stick to AmCab though the other teacher's students tend more toward fusion (if I see anyone dance once more to snake bite or whatever the heck that Godsmack tune is, I will probably plotz).
HOWEVER: in other areas, haflas are much closer to what I call performances, with larger audiences, more formality, and a better venue perhaps for education.
I hope this makes sense.:think:
Jane
New member
I'm hosting a hafla for my students at the end of the month. I think my definition of a hafla is very different from many peoples. We are decorating the studio and having a potluck with all Middle Eastern food. There will be music playing on the stereo, but anyone who wants to can pick up an instrument and go to town whenever. If people feel like dancing they will dance. If someone wants to recite some Rumi or Omar K., they will. Its a casual Middle Eastern theme party. If someone else gets a wild hair and wants to do a performance piece they have my blessing. They are all my student and their friends and family. My students have my belly dance values drilled into them as soon as they walk in the door. Goth Gypsy Pirate Burlesque Bat Wings would just never occur to them. At least I hope not! :shok:
For haflas, the above questions just would not apply for my bunch.
A student recital or showcase is a different animal entirely for me.
lizaj
New member
Oh that makes my heart glow..that second to last line. Trouble is they get to a recital and see the double isis wings while doing poi and a tray dance in goth costuming and say...ooo can we do that next? This has happened to a teacher friend they saw an excellent burley fusion...oooo can we do that? My friend came to me with rolling eyes( as no they as not skilled enough in either art form just yet a bit)...now to turn their desire into a standard veil dance
I suppose if we are inspired, we do want to emulate and dancers who are in it for fun, are not so worried about expertise. We are continuously told how this dance is all accepting and I think students believe they can attempt anything regardless of age, bodyshape,fitness they can be rachel brice or Dita Von teese. They forget that to attmpt an approximation you have still to do a lot of hard work, preparation and package yourself properly and seeing as you are entertaining people, will they enjoy us?
We are often very self indulgent about trotting out our performances (yes been there !)..I am doing this for me and forgetting the 100 or so fellows and friends watching may be cringeing. Together with friends I often watch early performances and think what was I thinking about:shok::redface:In fact there's some newer ones as well!
So yes I think I begin to take Shira's point about hafla /showcase performances.
Caroline_afifi
New member
Well I picked up on it and wrestled myself to the floor :lol:
I do struggle with this.. as you might of guessed.
I will say it clearly, I love good fusion and I love good fun... now the education side.. :think:
Firstly, correct labelling is essential anywhere.
Secondly, can anyone recall a student haflah they have been to which was not over laden with novelty acts?
I am sorry but on the whole, I do not find this 'interesting variety' but very predictable and often mind numbingly boring.
I work on one annual student and teacher showcase at a theatre in my city and even this is a struggle to keep it strictly Middle Eastern.
I was asked by a friend the other day if i would allow them to exchange sticks in their dance for umberella!! I nearly hit them :lol:
Does anyone have an event near them which is just ME dance with no tricks or frills, or wench outfits?
Is it only me who ever feels any despair about this... am I once again in the minority??? EEK
shiradotnet
Well-known member
Well, it's obviously not belly dance.
I wouldn't mind a couple of performances of other stuff like Bollywood or flamenco in what is otherwise a belly dance show, because that can break up the monotony of an endless stream of all the same thing. Sort of like fancy restaurants serving you sherbet to cleanse the palate before bringing the next course.
However, if I went to a hafla that was advertised as "belly dance" but consisted primarily of acts that were Bollywood, flamenco, hip hop, etc. I'd probably complain to the organizer about false advertising. Such an event should be advertised as "world dance", NOT "belly dance".
Shanazel
Moderator
I feel your pain, Caroline. Maybe I can borrow the umbrella to smack the dancer who dances to Godsmack?
I would dearly love to go to a performance that was purely Middle Eastern without even a single AmCab dancer represented, but I don't think that is going to happen unless I travel a long, long way.
I would dearly love to go to a performance that was purely Middle Eastern without even a single AmCab dancer represented, but I don't think that is going to happen unless I travel a long, long way.
SmilingMarie
New member
Shira, I'm with you on this one.
The problem is when haflas/recitals/whatever feature dancers from a large area, where people just sign up - unless the organisers check and say 'max 2 tribal' 'max 2 bollywood' etc you could easily end up with an event of 'world dance'. I've def seen that happening - due to fashions and trends teachers all think they are being novel but all end up doing tribal/spanish/whatever.
Jane
New member
It's hard to make a judgment call when you set up performance venues and include dancers you have never seen dance. I hosted a belly dance festival with an evening performance. We had a DJ announce everyone's piece and included a short description of what they were doing. There was a woman from out of town who wanted permission to go over time because she wanted to present an authentic Ghawazee dance. I was enthused and gave the go ahead. What she did on stage was not Ghawazee or even close. I was not a happy camper to say the least. Actually, I was really p!$$ed. I learned what the performer thinks they are doing and reality is not always the same thing. I felt as a dance promoter that I had helped spread dance misinformation to the public.
Back to Shira's original question: I don't see the difference between friends, family, or dancers and the general public when it comes to presenting belly dance on any stage. If the dancers are well vetted before-hand and there is a DJ to explain what is happening in the performance, all should be well in theory.
The important issue is labeling the whole showcase/show/recital appropriately. "An evening of dance" which can include burly, tap, African, ballet, belly dance, fusion, goth, jazz, hip-hop, and interpretive pirate wench, will actually be less confusing. Trying to be too inclusive under our "belly dance show umbrella" will leave many feeling all wet.
A belly dance show should have belly dance. I don't go to a classical music concert and expect a techno rave piece to cleanse my pallet for the next concerto.
Back to Shira's original question: I don't see the difference between friends, family, or dancers and the general public when it comes to presenting belly dance on any stage. If the dancers are well vetted before-hand and there is a DJ to explain what is happening in the performance, all should be well in theory.
The important issue is labeling the whole showcase/show/recital appropriately. "An evening of dance" which can include burly, tap, African, ballet, belly dance, fusion, goth, jazz, hip-hop, and interpretive pirate wench, will actually be less confusing. Trying to be too inclusive under our "belly dance show umbrella" will leave many feeling all wet.
A belly dance show should have belly dance. I don't go to a classical music concert and expect a techno rave piece to cleanse my pallet for the next concerto.
Jane
New member
:dance: Thank you!
Caroline_afifi
New member
I imagine that many of us (as children) used to make up dances and perform them to who ever would watch in our living rooms... many still do
We probably danced to whatever we liked at the time... mine was all the Bond Movie themes and anything by John Barry.
Occasionaly I may get the urge to recreate this little thing for Bond movies inside me but there is no real outlet.
At the end of my theatre showcases I often iclude an encore of the dancers doing something daft.. once was Diaminds are froever and it was fantatstic, another year was inspired by this
YouTube - ????? ELISSA ????? ????? ???? ???????
People get the message that it is the usual mad finale.
The problem is, belly dance Haflahs are increasingly becoming outlets for grown up little girls recreating their childhood dance fantasies.
Why not just organise a dance party for grown up little girls?
many haflahs I have been to over the years have been like watching my kids school play... I wuld like the choice rather than be a victim of false advertising! :lol:
We probably danced to whatever we liked at the time... mine was all the Bond Movie themes and anything by John Barry.
Occasionaly I may get the urge to recreate this little thing for Bond movies inside me but there is no real outlet.
At the end of my theatre showcases I often iclude an encore of the dancers doing something daft.. once was Diaminds are froever and it was fantatstic, another year was inspired by this
YouTube - ????? ELISSA ????? ????? ???? ???????
People get the message that it is the usual mad finale.
The problem is, belly dance Haflahs are increasingly becoming outlets for grown up little girls recreating their childhood dance fantasies.
Why not just organise a dance party for grown up little girls?
many haflahs I have been to over the years have been like watching my kids school play... I wuld like the choice rather than be a victim of false advertising! :lol:
Caroline_afifi
New member
That was 'diamonds' not the scouse version...
I either need glasses, a secretary, or a keyboard with letters I can see.
I regularly have to apologise for my serious typo's.
I either need glasses, a secretary, or a keyboard with letters I can see.
I regularly have to apologise for my serious typo's.
Marya
Member
Caroline,
I think you are on to something here, I have been musing lately on the development of a dancer. Seems like I went through a phase in my learning where, like in childhood, everything was new and wonderful and I wanted to do everything and anything, and also like a child, I didn't understand when a teacher said no, that is not appropriate. I know I wanted to put together dances when I was a beginner that I would not dream of doing now, for example, using non Middle Eastern Music, not being able to afford a real costume so throwing something together and calling it good, etc OR being attracted to a style solely because of the costume without any regard to cultural context or understanding of the history of the style.
I am still a learner but my discernment is much greater now and I can more accurately "read" a dancer's style. As a beginner, it was just all one great big wonderful bowl of gorp (trail mix wtih nuts, dried fruit, and M&Ms) and I wanted to gobble it all down. Now I pick and choose and can tell the difference between red and blue M&Ms.
Marya
shiradotnet
Well-known member
Exactly!
I don't have a problem with a "girls just wanna have fun" dance party so long as that is what it is called.
I just don't understand why people feel the need to demand that "belly dance" events accept their desire to express themselves in ways that are devoid of anything Middle Eastern. There's nothing wrong with wanting to express yourself in whatever music and clothing choice you wish, but there IS something wrong with expecting a "belly dance" event to let you do it in that environment.
lizaj
New member
Do you know between this thread and the "Imperialism" one there is the beginnings of a steely reserve in little 'ol me? I may be about to go on a mission..where's my pith helmet?
As a fan and performer of ATS/ITS/Tribal Fusion I am quite happy for it not to be called belly dance if that helps keeeping ME dance "safe".