When is a troll not a troll?

gypsy8522

New member
I don't look at people's past, I judge their words based on the present as everyone has a past, and that past might include things we are not proud of, little pecadillos we might have made when influenced by external forces or just plain errors of judgement. We are all continuously learning, everything that comes before us modifies our thought, we are a product of our enviroment, but it is for us to not let our past, the past and our enviroment from influencing us and others to how we are in the present, how us, we truly feel.

So, you say other people's inputs are not making the situation any better, so I have a question to ask you ;

What would make the situation resolved, what do you want to put an end to this war ?

Remember though, the past is the past.

Khanjar, of course you don't have to look at the past, because you aren't the one being 'othered' here. The fact is, the continous use of "we" and implication of the "other" and "them" in the past, is the primary reason things have escalated to this point.

It is obvious that the whole purpose of this thread is to get everyone else to gang up on a new member, Awasef.

Now the funny thing is, the moderator of the now locked thread issued private "warnings" or "requests" to two people, Kharmine and Awasef, yet here you have Kharmine creating a thread in order to get back at Awasef the troll (pot calling kettle?) for the mere reason that Awasef disagreed with her.

If Awasef isn't driven out NOW, it is most likely that her disagreeing and "unreasonable" view is going to appear again in the future, especially since Awasef can speak perfect English and is capable of participating in stimulating discussions if she wanted to. This is just another attempt to alienate and slowly drive out the Arab members of this forum. If you haven't noticed, the declining active membership and alienation of Arab members are and have already been taking place.
 

Kharis

New member
hmmm..interesting. Point well noted Kharis.

Sometimes it's just invisible, or needs to be highlighted, I guess, but eloquently and with compassion and understanding for both viewpoints.

If someones says, ' I'm hurting, this makes me feel sad and angry.' I listen and digest. If someone screams accusations at me I recoil and snap back in defence. What we give out, we receive. Kayshier you always see both sides, and for this, :clap::clap:
 

Kharis

New member
Khanjar, of course you don't have to look at the past, because you aren't the one being 'othered' here. The fact is, the continous use of "we" and implication of the "other" and "them" in the past, is the primary reason things have escalated to this point.

It is obvious that the whole purpose of this thread is to get everyone else to gang up on a new member, Awasef.

Now the funny thing is, the moderator of the now locked thread issued private "warnings" or "requests" to two people, Kharmine and Awasef, yet here you have Kharmine creating a thread in order to get back at Awasef the troll (pot calling kettle?) for the mere reason that Awasef disagreed with her.

If Awasef isn't driven out NOW, it is most likely that her disagreeing and "unreasonable" view is going to appear again in the future, especially since Awasef can speak perfect English and is capable of participating in stimulating discussions if she wanted to. This is just another attempt to alienate and slowly drive out the Arab members of this forum. If you haven't noticed, the declining active membership and alienation of Arab members are and have already been taking place.

Is it good form to tell the whole board that two people have been warned, when that warning was obviously private and had nothing to do with you? I truly marvel at your capacity for perpetuating trouble. Can't we just let it go and try to get over this? Please stop attacking people.
 

gisela

Super Moderator
I had actually wished for that to stay private. I didn't see the need to tell the world about that. They were not warnings, they were request.
 

Freddie

New member
I had no interest in outting you or causing any trouble for anyone. I did NOT like what you said about Awasef and spoke up. I was/am making the point that anyone can be made to appear suspicious. Your whole case against Awasef was based on conjecture.

Hi Summer, thanks for the clarification and in hindsight I think it would have been better to raise my points privately to the mods. But then the mods are a tad busy right now.

I'm really sorry you had such a rough time.

Thanks, but although it was horrendous it was also a huge learning curve and it has had lots of silver linings. We all have our own stuff to deal with - i was only trying to explain why I disappeared from Bhuz for a while. It really wasn't a flounce.

No, I honestly don't want you to go. I want you to stay and give everyone here a chance. We're not bad people. I spoke up when I saw everyone ganging up on Awasef because she's new.

Good. Of course I will give everyone a chance. The thing I like about this board is that everyone seems to feel able to say exactly what they mean without beating around the bush and that's a good thing. OK, so the methods of some are not the most pleasant methods but sometimes things do just come to a head and we are all human after all. If Awasef is a genuine forumite and not a troll, then I extend her my sincere apologies.

The cat? His name is Zaki.

Zaki is very cute. Any relation to Eman?
 

gypsy8522

New member
Is it good form to tell the whole board that two people have been warned, when that warning was obviously private and had nothing to do with you? I truly marvel at your capacity for perpetuating trouble. Can't we just let it go and try to get over this? Please stop attacking people.

Look at the things you've written in the locked thread and you'll know who is the trouble maker.

I was NOT the one who back-stabbed a long time member in the back, wrote the nastiest and most disgusting things about her publically on the board, then came here to school people about cruelty. Can you spell HYPOCRISY?

But it's good you know that certain things are meant for specific people and others should stay out and mind their own business. How about you try that for a change?
 

Kharis

New member
Look at the things you've written in the locked thread and you'll know who is the trouble maker.

I was NOT the one who back-stabbed a long time member in the back, wrote the nastiest and most disgusting things about her publically on the board, then came here to school people about cruelty. Can you spell HYPOCRISY?

But it's good you know that certain things are meant for specific people and others should stay out and mind their own business. How about you try that for a change?

I'm guessing you mean my comment about aisha azar not being a relevant member of this board anymore? She's not. She left. And Aisha was a worthy adversary at times, and she did have a goading style for she poked me with it many a time and I poked her back, and her sarcasm was legendary, but she was and is a very knowledgeable woman with lots to share and her departure if not her acerbic tongue is sorely missed here. One thing I would never do is treat someone's personal misfortunes with callous disdain as you have done. So trying to mitigate your own behaviour by clumsily steering my comments to shield them, is transparent, I'm afraid.
 
Last edited:

Ariadne

Well-known member
Otherwise, when sweet reason doesn't work, folks, how about we just close ranks and ignore the unreasonable. We don't need that kinda drama any more.

This is actually a perfect example of the problem as to what is happening. In English broken down there is no question who "we" is, we = reasonable. Of course there is an "other" in the statement, other = unreasonable, if there wasn't there would be no need to ignore them. The question is perfectly innocuous and actually very good advice, ignore people who are being unreasonable instead of feeding the situation.

So where is that ignore function and how does it work? I think I may start implementing it.
 

Salome

Administrator
So where is that ignore function and how does it work? I think I may start implementing it.

Go to your USER CP

in the left hand navigation, look under settings and options

Choose "edit ignore list"

add the name of the member you want to ignore and click Add
 

gypsy8522

New member
I'm guessing you mean my comment about aisha azar not being a relevant member of this board anymore?


Um no, I mean your ugly-spirited comment about Aisha having a spiteful tongue and a mean attitude, when it was clear that the whole point of the thread was NOT to attack anybody but to bring a long time member back.

You are here preaching about forgiveness and cruelty (huh!) when your behavior says otherwise. Your eagerness to be the first person to participate in this thread just goes to show what you are here for: to create more chaos and trouble. Get off your high horse already.

btw I just noticed that you're using the same tactic you used in the Arab/Muslim thread that resulted in someone cursing back at you. You are pushing my buttons on purpose, how cruel and dirty!
 

Awasef

New member
Kharis, if 'Aisha Azar' was not relevant anymore, why did you accuse me of being her under another pseudonym? I'm new to this forum, and it's easy enough for a moderator to check something called an IP address, and whether someone has registered before or not. I don't know what your problem was with that person, but I think you and Kharmine are obsessed with her. She is gone, and yet you keep bringing her up, and you say that she is not relevant, but apparently here she is as 'Awasef' - that nasty 'troll' who got upset at the 'Arabs and Muslims' thread.

Kharmine; I think you could qualify as a troll based on your own definition. And if you are not a troll, then I would certainly say that you are a narcissist. You exhibit all the traits of someone with a narcissistic personality.

Here is a definition:

''Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition characterized by an inflated sense of self-importance, need for admiration, extreme self-involvement, and lack of empathy for others.''


You have not only initiated a witch-hunt, you have also manipulated this whole drama to recruit people to your side and to continue the character assassination of a departed member. You repeatedly speak on behalf of others. You repeatedly assume that your opinion is supreme and must not be disputed. You seem to think that you are the one who makes the rules on this board.

Trust me my dear, you may be loud, but you are not nearly as important as you think you are.


And Freddie - what on Earth was your 'Awasef analysis' about? Yes, my name means 'storms' - newsflash - Arabic names have meanings. They are not just exotic sounding syllables. If a member was called 'Amar' (moon) - would you accuse her of having an effect on the tides? Honestly, what was your point?

Also, I am not really interested in belly dancing, but I was having fun in the Arabic thread dishing about celebrity news, TV variety shows, and Arabic comedians. Not exactly subversive stuff, you know. If I reacted to the Arabs and Muslims thread it was because I found it highly offensive.
 

Kharis

New member
Kharis, if 'Aisha Azar' was not relevant anymore, why did you accuse me of being her under another pseudonym? I'm new to this forum, and it's easy enough for a moderator to check something called an IP address, and whether someone has registered before or not.

I'm full aware of IP addresses. And being fully aware, and computer literate, I am guilty of being facetious, which I should not have been and formally apologise to you for this. I get riled up pretty easily, and so do you, so I publicly extend my hand to you here and say, sorry for intimating you were an Aisha doppleganger. ;)
 

Kharis

New member
You have not only initiated a witch-hunt, you have also manipulated this whole drama to recruit people to your side and to continue the character assassination of a departed member.

May I ask if you are a friend of Aisha's?
 

Salome

Administrator
On topic

Ok, ok, ok... this thread has become a carry over where, mostly, people are exploring their personal dislikes of each other and past wrong doings and whatnot. The topic was something like this:

Is a troll a person that drops by once to stir the pot or a longtimer and if a troll is a long timer then why are they not regarded as a troll?

Let's try to stay on this topic in this thread.
 

summerdance

New member
May I ask if you are a friend of Aisha's?

How exactly is this relevant? :think:We are a bunch of strangers here to discuss music and dance, for the most part.

Is this burying the hatchet? No. It's not. Aisha has left. Please stay on point.

It also seems that you have some grudge against Gypsy. Either hash it out with her privately, or drop it.

This war of words needs to end.
 

Kharmine

New member
Well yea, I agree with Gypsy, who is "we" and how do "we" close ranks if "we" don't agree about who is unreasonable? I mean sometimes the issue is clear and some troll or spammer can easily be identified and banned. Sometimes, as in recent events, the issues are not as black and white.

I agree.

By "we," I mean those of us who are tired of the warfare, regardless of what side of any issue we feel inclined to be on. This is not about who's right or wrong, but about finding common ground and giving peace a chance.

We may have stood on the sidelines, ducked out when it got too hot, posted a heated response we later thought better of, joined in when a friend was attacked, been attacked unfairly ourselves or just tried to make peace and got hit anyway -- it doesn't matter.

That pretty much covers all of us.

Speaking to a general "you": If you're tired of the warfare, and you feel we need to do more to keep the peace, then we -- individually and collectively -- have to decide not to give into anger, baiting and feuding.

Whether that behavior is coming from regulars who occasionally get overheated, a real troll or just someone exhibiting trollish behavior.

1) If we see a post we don't like the content of, or just what we perceive as a negative tone, we can count to 10 and try to first give the benefit of the doubt that the post-er did not intend offense, even if we disagree with what he/she said.

We can then consider whether to ignore that post or ask in a neutral way more about what they're saying so we can decide on what the meaning of the post truly was.

2) When we respond, we try to do so calmly and carefully, leaving out insulting language. We keep in mind that people can be quite decent, well-meaning and intelligent and still have opinions that annoy or even infuriate us.

If none of us have friends here who occasionally piss us off, and with whom there are some subjects we have to agree to disagree, maybe even outright avoid talking about -- then none of us have friends here.

By "close ranks," I would suggest that when it seems like nothing we say -- on our own behalf or on behalf of others -- is helping to improve the situation -- we don't respond directly any more.

1) We talk only to people who are being civil, whether they agree with us or not. We stay on topic and stay courteous, regardless. We can quietly let people know that we support them without going out of our way to rub it in the face of those they are disagreeing with.

2) We report the people who turn abusive. That's important. Press that button when the flamethrowers come out. Send a PM to Salome if you think it's warranted. Support the moderators when they come into the thread and tell people to calm down.

I started this thread because some of us have been quietly wondering about this topic for some time.

The folks who stayed civil and on topic seem to have reached more-or-less consensus. I am now responding to a question someone had, and suggesting things to consider to reduce troll-like behavior as defined in the Rules.

Why? I like this site. I like what Salome is trying to do and I have a lot of friends here. I like to think we could all try better to get along. I'd like to think that everyone here is a friend or a potential friend.

We shouldn't be dragging friends into personal conflicts by airing them publicly on threads where they don't belong, may make people feel they need to jump in, and certainly won't help keep the peace.

So, as I've said many times before: If anyone has a personal bone to pick with me, let's take it Outside the threads -- take it to my profile page or even send a PM or email. All I ask is civility. Otherwise, let's just Ignore each other.
 

masrawy

New member
hypocrisy!!

So, as I've said many times before: If anyone has a personal bone to pick with me, let's take it Outside the threads -- take it to my profile page or even send a PM or email. All I ask is civility. Otherwise, let's just Ignore each other.
 
that explains what you have left me in my profile page ... I wonder who else is in your hit list!!

04-19-2009 06:05 PMKharmine <http://www.bellydanceforums.net/members/kharmine.html>
Masrawy, you wacky ol' so-and-so! The only way I'm gonna change is to not respond in the future to your schoolyard bully antics when they're directed at me, no matter how suddenly reasonable you pretend to be! Vaya con Dios!

I knew, I left it there for a good reason ...

Belly Dance Forums - View Profile: masrawy
 
Top