A dance in danger

lizaj

New member
I love this dance..to watch , it and do it but a lot of what I see and hear about worries me. I won't elaborate. You go first...
What worries you most about the condition of the dance, the development of the dance as you see it especially with reference to what is going on outside of its' place of origin?
 

LeylaLanty

New member
First and foremost is my fear that the onslaught of extreme islamists primarily in the middle east but elsewhere as well, will force this dance underground or maybe even kill it in the lands of its origin. In Egypt, about which I know the most, it's getting harder and harder to find dancers who are performing and venues where dancers can perform.
 

Kashmir

New member
Fusioned to Death

My fear is it'll be watered down (in the West) until what makes it "belly dance" disappears and we just have modern/jazz dance with belly dance touches - and worse new students will have no idea what they have lost.
 

Moon

New member
My greatest worry used to be "slutty girls" showing the wrong image of the dance to the public. Recently that has changed though. My worry is that in future, it will become impossible to learn the original Middle Eastern bellydance styles anywhere outside of the Middle East. I've been living in Sydney Australia for 4 months now and I haven't done any dancing here (apart from a few times in my own bedroom). I've been looking for classes, but apart from the fact that the distances are insane here (I can't really go to classes at 5pm if I have to study and then have an hour travel before I get there) it's extremely hard to find some "normal" classes. 99% seems to be American cabaret style or bellydance/samba/salsa/fantasy fusion :(
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Hello, Moon dear. I've missed you.

I don't worry much about the dance. I've been doing this long enough to have seen three major waves of interest in belly dance sweep America, though I can't speak for the rest of the world. This is the strongest, most persistent American wave yet. Despite recent "innovations" more people are devoted to keeping the heart of the dance alive than there have ever been before. People are doing serious research, debunking old myths, and paying plenty of attention to origins and different styles of dance. The heart of belly dance will be just fine, no matter how many people embrace zombie fusion and metallic music.
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Here in Melbourne from what I have encountered, very few are interested in origins/history etc, they just want to dance.

There are exceptions to that rule, but seems to be mainly the dancers who have been around a long time, or have ties to the Middle east as in born there, parents/grandparents born there.

Fusiony stuff is very popular here, especially with the young ones, and probably 75% have no idea of culture/origins or have any interest in finding out.

But I do think there are still enough longtime dancers who impart knowledge to their students wherever and when ever possible. Hopefully those students will carry that knowledge and understanding forward.

It is possible that in the future, the dance will go underground in many places in the Middle East, but as times change and those who have something of the rebel in them and can stand up against prevailing cultural mores, I am sure we will see the dance continue. I sure hope so anyway.

Being so widespread worldwide, and so many people loving the dance I can't see it ever completely dying. Sure a lot of fusion will be seen, but there will always be the 'purists' who will keep it alive somewhere in the world.

Moon, I didn't know you had moved to Aussie. have you been in touch with Dev? he maybe able to help you find classes. There are quite a few Egyptian style dancers around. Aussie dancers ( I think) are much more Egyptian, Turkish or Lebanese in style than Amcab, they are in Melbourne anyway and I would think Sydney would be similar.

~Mosaic
 

Moon

New member
Thanks Mosaic. Problem is Dev lives in Queensland and I'm in Sydney. It takes me an hour by plane to even get to Brisbane. Any idea how intimidating that is for a Dutchie? ;);)
Well, I kind of gave up on taking dance classes here. Next week my boyfriend will come here and I want to spend as much time with him as possible with studying at the same time, and in June we will travel together before going back home. So not much time for dance classes here left.

By the way, sorry for bringing the thread off topic, lol.
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Thanks Mosaic. Problem is Dev lives in Queensland and I'm in Sydney. It takes me an hour by plane to even get to Brisbane. Any idea how intimidating that is for a Dutchie? ;);)
Well, I kind of gave up on taking dance classes here. Next week my boyfriend will come here and I want to spend as much time with him as possible with studying at the same time, and in June we will travel together before going back home. So not much time for dance classes here left.

By the way, sorry for bringing the thread off topic, lol.

Now what made me think Dev was in Sydney... I have no idea, yes I agree, a bit far to travel for dance classes LOL!

Sorry from me too .. for trailing OT:naghty:;)
~Mosaic
 

Dev

New member
As Mosaic expressed in Australia, most dancers just want to dance, not interested in the culture it evolved from. Misconceptions are widespread.


Moon, contact Jamil, he is a very nice guy and I am sure he will find something for you, He also a good teacher and teaches in Paramatta about 40 minutes from Sydney Harbour by ferry.
 
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Maria_Aya

New member
I'm not worrying.
As everything in life and time, oriental dance will do circles.
Maybe some new will open to continue, maybe some will close, maybe in 100 years it will be disapeared.
But its like this from the birth of humanity.
And I believe in the instict of the audience.
When they see the good thing they get it;)

Maria Aya;)
 

Kharis

New member
I'm not worrying.
As everything in life and time, oriental dance will do circles.
Maybe some new will open to continue, maybe some will close, maybe in 100 years it will be disapeared.
But its like this from the birth of humanity.
And I believe in the instict of the audience.
When they see the good thing they get it;)

Maria Aya;)

Me neither. It's a dance. What's to worry about. Everything evolves.
 

Lydia

New member
I am not worried!!! and if you are try to do something about it......why it would go ? it has been around for as long as 5000 years that is what been said ...it survived treu many many bad times,and good times..its ok just keep up the good work ,and it will be fine be optimistic!!...
 

lizaj

New member
I love your optimism. And I often think if I and my dance friends are happy and fulfilled by taking participation and watching good dancing, what matters?
.However I am concerned by the perception others have of this dance. It affects us as dancers and teacher. BGT and the black knickered woman is an example. Ah yes says Joe and Jill public that's belly dance..yes I think our dance in the West is in danger. I think it is in danger from bad teaching, from unprofessional behaviour, from a mish -mash of fusion that has lost the plot and still calls itself "belly dance". I think it very easy to "insult" this dance and the culture from which it emerges (..and I sure don't think that the dance we know emerged 5000 years ago. We have no idea how the Ancients danced.)
What bothers me is what we are doing to the dance of Samia and Naima. I certainly don't think dance stands still..Randa and Dina and Asmahan are doing it no harm whatsoever .They are developing it. All kind of influences will put a different slant of the "original". Of course it will evolve but the GP in the West gets an awful lot of bad examples thrust before its' eyes. That's a worry, surely.
 

Lydia

New member
I love your optimism. And I often think if I and my dance friends are happy and fulfilled by taking participation and watching good dancing, what matters?
.However I am concerned by the perception others have of this dance. It affects us as dancers and teacher. BGT and the black knickered woman is an example. Ah yes says Joe and Jill public that's belly dance..yes I think our dance in the West is in danger. I think it is in danger from bad teaching, from unprofessional behaviour, from a mish -mash of fusion that has lost the plot and still calls itself "belly dance". I think it very easy to "insult" this dance and the culture from which it emerges (..and I sure don't think that the dance we know emerged 5000 years ago. We have no idea how the Ancients danced.)
What bothers me is what we are doing to the dance of Samia and Naima. I certainly don't think dance stands still..Randa and Dina and Asmahan are doing it no harm whatsoever .They are developing it. All kind of influences will put a different slant of the "original". Of course it will evolve but the GP in the West gets an awful lot of bad examples thrust before its' eyes. That's a worry, surely.

Lizaj...it is that old...there are many pics found in ancient tombs that look like oriental dancers......and you know people will always talk ,,the wasp always eat from the nice fruits,, let them talk ...we can never make all the world happy...just you do your best in your circles around you....when you are happy ,people will wonder why you are happy ...and then you can tell them its the dance that makes you happy,and it is your change to talk and tell people how nice it is and all the benefits you are getting from it.... so little by little people around you atleast will understand ......dont worry !!
 

lizaj

New member
Lizaj...it is that old...there are many pics found in ancient tombs that look like oriental dancers......and you know people will always talk ,,the wasp always eat from the nice fruits,, let them talk ...we can never make all the world happy...just you do your best in your circles around you....when you are happy ,people will wonder why you are happy ...and then you can tell them its the dance that makes you happy,and it is your change to talk and tell people how nice it is and all the benefits you are getting from it.... so little by little people around you atleast will understand ......dont worry !!

I've seen those lovely tomb paintings and they could be dancing or they could be goose-stepping so....Ah we'll beg to differ but I still love ya, Lydia!:D
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Well this is why I'm such an advocate for phasing out the term "Belly Dance" and gradually replacing it with the names that the people of the culture use for it. Why? Because it relates the dance back to the people and culture from which it came. That is and should be the ruler by which the dance is measured. How close is it to the dance as done in Egypt in movement vocabulary and spirit?

For most people, Belly dance is all sorts of things. There is the crowd who see it as being of Middle Eastern origin, (though most of those people couldn't tell the difference between Egypt, India and Iran). Then there are the ones who think as long as you show your belly and you can squirm around, that's belly dance. You can do it to Rock or any type of music, you can throw in any type of moves, doesn't matter.

As for the real dance. Its something that ultimately arises out of the cultural reality of the people. So even if nightclubs get closed, the people will still be doing their dance. Besides, those nightclubs have always been beyond the reach of the ordinary people.
 
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