How do you feel about...

kayshier

New member
critically analyzing other dancers, in terms of their performance i mean?

is it something that you (meaning person who reads this) would do publicly?
do you think it is fair, or even a part of 'dancer's ettiquette' to do so?

does posting a video of yourself on youtube automatically mean that you are held up for scrutiny?

I know there is the you tube forum, but i have seen so many 'bad examples of dance on there, that sometimes it is hard for me to wonder what makes it bad, or what would improve it...
sometimes the comments don't reflect that. so for those of us still at the embryonic stage of dance it might be a bit more difficult to decipher what we should look for.

hmm...maybe i am just rambling i think but..:lol:

anyway..any comments?
 

Mya

New member
is it something that you (meaning person who reads this) would do publicly?
do you think it is fair, or even a part of 'dancer's ettiquette' to do so?

What you mean like while the performance is going on?? Certainly not - no matter how much i might dislike their performance! That's downright rude.


does posting a video of yourself on youtube automatically mean that you are held up for scrutiny?

Well i guess once you've put it there for public viewing then yes you are (i'm not certain about this but i believe that there is a function on youtube that allows your friends only to see the video).
Unfortunately sometimes OTHER people put video of you up and you still are open to scrutiny even though you didn't do it yourself - just a occupational hazard i'd say.

I know there is the you tube forum, but i have seen so many 'bad examples of dance on there, that sometimes it is hard for me to wonder what makes it bad, or what would improve it...
sometimes the comments don't reflect that. so for those of us still at the embryonic stage of dance it might be a bit more difficult to decipher what we should look for.


good point, maybe we should try to direct you tube threads towards what could have made the performance better other than just discussing what makes it not good dance.
 

Marya

Member
critically analyzing other dancers, in terms of their performance i mean?

is it something that you (meaning person who reads this) would do publicly?
do you think it is fair, or even a part of 'dancer's ettiquette' to do so?

does posting a video of yourself on youtube automatically mean that you are held up for scrutiny?

I know there is the you tube forum, but i have seen so many 'bad examples of dance on there, that sometimes it is hard for me to wonder what makes it bad, or what would improve it...
sometimes the comments don't reflect that. so for those of us still at the embryonic stage of dance it might be a bit more difficult to decipher what we should look for.

hmm...maybe i am just rambling i think but..:lol:

anyway..any comments?

As a teacher and a relatively experienced dancer I do analyze other dancers all the time. I don't share those observations unless asked, or sometimes just with the person who dances with me.

I learn from having a critical eye so it is something I do for myself.

Once I told a dancer she covered her face too much during her otherwise very nice dance. She had a beautiful face and I thought it was important that she know that. Also once I told a dancer that the beautiful fabric her costume was made out of looked like camouflage from a distance. I probably wouldn't do this now unless I knew the dancer well.

I guess whether I would publicly share my analysis would depend on the situation. If I was at a hafla no, if I was attending an event with my students I might share my observations with them. Not all of which would be negative of course.

Posting to youtube is just asking for criticism, although it is my understanding that you can block comments and if you label it something plain (not belly dance) it might not be found by very many people.

Marya
 

kayshier

New member
no mya for the first part, i would definitley want to box somebody if they publicly criticize a dancer while performing..no matter who it is, or no matter how i feel about how they are dancing.

i mean it in light of you tube videos...I mean didn't the person put it out there for all to see? while comments can be disabled, surely its a kinda catch 22 situation, you want people to see you dance yet you don't want to be criticised for it..

personally i welcome good criticism, (years of getting your designs dissected and sometimes thrashed by more experienced people probably did that for me)
 

Aniseteph

New member
...its a kinda catch 22 situation, you want people to see you dance yet you don't want to be criticised for it...

:lol: Exactly. You can't stand up there or post clips and expect everyone to have nothing but great thing to say about you. If you can't handle what people might think (or that they might talk about you :shok:), don't dance in public.

I think it's really important to take context into account though - standards for students are different to professionals, and clips posted by dancers themselves (that are reasonably happy with or why post?) are different from Joe Public's mobile phone footage shot on a bad night.
 

Kharis

New member
I think that if you post something on say, You Tube, then it's open for public comment on that site. Not so sure about having it posted elsewhere for comment. It's slightly different if it's say, Mr Bloggs Dancing Parrot, or someone doing something gimmicky or freakish.... but if it's someone's straight forward dancing skills etc, then I don't think that's wholly fair.
 

~Diana~

AFK Moderator
I don't critique unless the person specifically asked to be. If I do say anything it is not spoken as a critique but more as a suggestion. Even then it is still weighted with positive regards.

I watched one youtube video yesterday of a girl trying to do tribal fusion style except she had what is called 'chicken wing' arms. No tribal fusion dancer holds her arms like that and when i took workshops from Monique Ryan she specifically told us never to hold our arms like that. Anyway I sent her a comment asking if she had taken classes and then pointed out the chicken wing arms and explained why i was commenting. She was very receptive to it.
 

shiradotnet

Well-known member
If someone is selling a commercial video (either VHS or DVD) to the public, then I think it's fair game for public comment. The instant they start charging money, they invite scrutiny as to whether this product is worth whatever they're charging for it.

I see youtube as being a little different. I agree with Anisteph that we should apply different standards to students who are excited about a recent recital performance than we do to people who claim to be teachers or working professionals.

If the person on the youtube video claims to be a teacher or performer, AND if they post that video to be publicly viewable, I think it's fair game to criticize the work if criticism is indeed warranted. Every other professional endeavor subjects its practitioners to peer review and critique - medicine, anthropology, high-tech, etc. - so why should belly dancers be exempt? If you don't want to be critiqued according to what other people feel are the standards to which a teacher or professional dancer should be held, then you shouldn't post your video clip on youtube.

But I agree with Anisteph that the standard I'd use for student performances is quite different.
 

jenc

New member
Interesting discussion. I once posted rude criticism of YuoTube vid (of professional dancer) on this forum and it was taken off Youtube pretty smartly.

We have had many such threads where a member has found something on YT and we have all chipped in. Sometimes this doesn't bother me and sometimes it does. I think it has something to do with how seriously they take themselves, how long they have been dancing etc. For example, I am more inclined to be merciless to someon who has been dancing years and puts herself forward as a Goddess, or somone who has had 6 lessons (or even none) and posts how-to lessons
 

Eshta

New member
Just repeating what's already been said...

I inwardly analyse every dancer pretty much all the time, it's one of the curses of learning this dance is that I will never be able to just sit and enjoy it! But I try to analyse in a constructive light, I look for things that I like rather than what I don't like. But this is all for my own personal benefit. I would not feed back to the dancer unless I was explicitly asked by them.

Youtube is a nightmare for the reasons already stated. But just because someone's videos are on youtube shouldn't mean it's a free-for-all for everyone to get the knives out. I don't tend to comment on youtube, and don't tend to participate in the youtube threads unless I have something I feel is worth contributing. Probably more because I'm too selfish and lazy :lol: I prefer to watch other dancers to get ideas rather than to be critical!
 

lizaj

New member
The recent thread on criticising ,in an unwarrented manner ,an individual dancer was one of a dancer who is a member of belly dance communities and that begs the question of why was it posted? :(
So if we post a Youtube film and the dancer is not nationally nor internationally known or is not bringing the dance into dire disrepute, perhaps we aught to give it some thought.
On the other hand if the routine is misguided,an example of poor pratice, gerneral comment is surely appropriate .
 

Safran

New member
I think whenever we see a performance we constantly analyse it to ourselves - it is part of the learning process, even if we are not aware of it.

I am trying to moderate the criticism that I express. The more I learn about dancing the more I am making a difference between what is not "my cup of tea" and what really is bad practise. And when it comes to the latter - you seldom have enough background information to make a based judgement.

I guess it is part of the natural development - the more you learn, the clearer you can figure out your preferences, but also the more tolerant and open you become.
 

Kashmir

New member
critically analyzing other dancers, in terms of their performance i mean?

is it something that you (meaning person who reads this) would do publicly?
do you think it is fair, or even a part of 'dancer's ettiquette' to do so?

does posting a video of yourself on youtube automatically mean that you are held up for scrutiny?
I take it that if you perform in a public setting you are leaving yourself open to public critique. Even more so if it is a for profit paid performance (cf one that you pay for to cover costs like a student show) However, with YouTube you need to be sure the performer put herslf/hisself up there. If it was some keen "fan" then it is quite different.
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
critically analyzing other dancers, in terms of their performance i mean?

is it something that you (meaning person who reads this) would do publicly?
do you think it is fair, or even a part of 'dancer's ettiquette' to do so?

Like has been said, we all examine things in our own way. When we watch a performance, we tend to discuss it as a group. On the whole, I dont have a problem with it because 99.9% of the time people are discussing the dance and the details rather than the person themselves.

Where it is students performing, I tend to look at how the skills of their teacher has translated. If the student does a big 'NO NO' I do look to the teacher. We cannot ne responsible for every students move, but there are some things that should be taught in class as 'not what to do in performance'.

I also look at the choreography, how the music was used, performance skills etc. these are very basic things and even were technique is not up to standard, these other factors cannot be exused when you have a veil wafting about to a piece of strong Saaidi music etc.

does posting a video of yourself on youtube automatically mean that you are held up for scrutiny?

Yes, totally.

I know there is the you tube forum, but i have seen so many 'bad examples of dance on there, that sometimes it is hard for me to wonder what makes it bad, or what would improve it...
sometimes the comments don't reflect that. so for those of us still at the embryonic stage of dance it might be a bit more difficult to decipher what we should look for.

hmm...maybe i am just rambling i think but..:lol:

A non dancer can recognise a good dancer, follow your gut instinct.

anyway..any comments?

there is nothing wrong with examing this dance and trying to figure it out.

Sometimes it works the other way and people never get to hear what people really think because people are just way too polite.

I always know who to ask for an honest answer.

If I feel like I did not dance dance wel, l then no amount of people can tell me otherwise.

It does not mean they did not enjoy it, it just means I managed to get away with a less than my usual standard of performance.

I teach monthly dance development classes for dancers who go to other classes. I always give an honest opinion as how can they learn otherwise.

I assume they pay me bacause they respect my opinion and want to be pushed and developed.

many of my friends who teach weekly classes say that it is difficult to do this for many reasons.

Analysis and critique is an essential part of any development.

Sometimes this has to be discussed amongst friends and other to widen our perspective and have someone to bounce off.

Too many people think this is a sin or something, and if you have not got anything but praise then we must keep our mouths firmly shut.
 

jenc

New member
Many people post themselves on YouTube who would be amazed and devastated if they were criticiised as if they were professional dancers. You will not see me on YouTube yet cos the only thing I have been filmed in was dreadfully amateur - not least because I threw my veil over my head at the wrong time!! But many people have not thought it all through
 
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