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  1. #71
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
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    It wil cost you a lot...a lot..less to drive those miles than it would for us
    I don't doubt that for a second. In a 200 mile drive in Wyoming, I might pass three or four small towns, which I define as anything with a larger human population than dogs. In Ireland (and northern Texas!) it seems like I never am able to get up to speed before I have to slow down again for some little village. Driving in Ireland was an education in itself and I stuck to the relatively unpopulated west-central coast.

  2. #72
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    I got to thinking that perhaps this young lady's choices can be used to help other people understand why you do not want to teach as soon as you feel "you've got the moves down" and are ready to teach. It can help enforce the idea that dancing is more than just moves but matching the moves to the music so the musicality of both can be seen. It can show what happens when the person has not properly learned the moves and how it shows up in their dancing. Just a thought. Since she is not listening to the advice she has recieved from people who are professional, perhaps we can use her to help educate others.

  3. #73
    V.I.P. Jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanazel View Post
    Hey, Jane, meet me in Billings sometime- I'm about five hours away, depending on how fast I drive.
    Sounds like a plan- I'd love to!

  4. #74
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teela View Post
    I got to thinking that perhaps this young lady's choices can be used to help other people understand why you do not want to teach as soon as you feel "you've got the moves down" and are ready to teach. It can help enforce the idea that dancing is more than just moves but matching the moves to the music so the musicality of both can be seen. It can show what happens when the person has not properly learned the moves and how it shows up in their dancing. Just a thought. Since she is not listening to the advice she has recieved from people who are professional, perhaps we can use her to help educate others.
    If only that worked!

    it does not seem to make the slightest bit of difference to anything.
    Most countries are still churning out incompetant teachers/performers by the hour. Most areas of every country around the world seems to have at least one.

    The minute you start talking about standards, quality, history, culture,knowledge, information, saftey... you get labelled jealous, a kill joy, evil, boring, oppresive, restrictive, Belly dance Police etc. etc.

    It seems to be the way it is to be honest.. this dance is increasingly becoming about the personal needs and gratification of individuals rather than the art form.
    Last edited by Caroline_afifi; 12-07-2009 at 09:18 AM.

  5. #75
    V.I.P. lizaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    If only that worked!

    it does not seem to make the slightest bit of difference to anything.
    Most countries are still churning out incompetant teachers/performers by the hour. Most areas of every country around the world seems to have at least one.

    The minute you start talking about standards, quality, history, culture,knowledge, information, saftey... you get labelled jealous, a kill joy, evil, boring etc, oppresive, restrictive, Belly dance Police etc. etc.

    It seems to be the way it is to be honest.. this dance is increasingly becoming about the personal needs and gratification of individuals rather than the art form.
    I have just booked a Christmas night out to a venue with a dancer with a great write-up and have been informed last night she is self-taught! Ho hum!

  6. #76
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Is this in Southport?

    If so, someone told me last week that she was only 14 years old and is escorted by her mum is this true???

  7. #77
    V.I.P. lizaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    Is this in Southport?

    If so, someone told me last week that she was only 14 years old and is escorted by her mum is this true???
    I am told maybe just fifteen and I am in two minds about wether to go. I do believe the younger a dancer starts, the best chance she has of becoming good. Maybe if she has talent someone will be around to say..yup off you go to get tuition and a star is born...but what is it about people who think this dance is not worthy of learning before you demonstrate/teach it? However I can forgive a young teenager for not thinking it through..an adult NO!

    I think about the years of classes and workshops and I know, practise at home, that created this area's best young dancer who I was watching last night. She is truly talented and didn't go the restaurant route until she was older..not a lot older but those 3 years make a hell of a difference.
    It's such a shame people can't think beyond the "cute" factor which is pleasant in any dancer but not the most important by any means and ...girls doesn't last.....

  8. #78
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    Caroline: I understand. I only found out that one of my first teachers had had one year of lessons before she started teaching after I'd been with her for a while. She was older and her excuse for going into teaching at that point was that she was a natural dancer. She performed at a local restaurant on a regular basis, had a troupe but never discussed anything about music, culture, famous dancers, etc. I think it was when I started taking lessons from another teacher who had gone to Egypt several times that I started learning more about culture and the Egyptian dance style. As far as music, culture, etc, I've learned more reading the threads here.
    I also have seen some local fusion dancers who perform "belly dance" that I don't recognize as belly dance. They had a show attached to a workshop that I performed in. The theme was "Dark Fairy tales" I chose a middle eastern piece of music, did a middle eastern style dance and labeled it "The Little Match Girl". My daughter provided the match girl and lit the match (we used an electric candle) and she died by the end. I was the dream/vision. Afterwords, one of the fusion dancers commented that she wasn't sure about my idea when she first saw the writeup but it worked.
    I know its very common for beginners to see themselves further along than they are. Maybe we can save it for bad dancer nights.

  9. #79
    V.I.P. da Sage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    Is this in Southport?

    If so, someone told me last week that she was only 14 years old and is escorted by her mum is this true???
    If she is 14 or 15, I certainly *hope* she is escorted by her mother to gigs!

    Some people really can self-teach effectively, and many pro singers got their start as children. And how many popular singers were truly "taught" how to sing, hmm?

    On the other hand, I'm always slightly suspect of self-taught people who teach; my experience is that self-taught teachers' classes are not as focused, nor do they move as quickly as the classes of teachers who have had skill-specific teaching methods modeled for them over a long period of time.

    But the proof is in the pudding. I certainly don't think the "performing arts degree" and the 3.5 years of college dance classes I took qualify me to teach or perform bellydance professionally. Nor do my 4 years of bellydance classes (and more years of video study). In my mind, the proper qualifications are: 1) do you dance at (or very near) pro level, and 2) do you have the *teaching* talent as well as patience and personal integrity necessary to handle a class.

  10. #80
    V.I.P. adiemus's Avatar
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    da Sage, you've just put into words something that isn't very common - recognising that some people are good teachers, while others may be great performers but don't have the necessary to teach.
    Teaching is a specific skill (or set of skills) and while I think it's vital to be able to dance in order to demonstrate, developing specific teaching skills is also vital. I think this applies across the board in any area of human learning - and so often the skills needed to teach aren't appreciated or acknowledged.
    WRT 'self taught' singers - while many people can sing without being taught, to really develop a voice and use it effectively requires discipline and learning. Unfortunately many untrained singers damage their voices and their life as a singer is unnecessarily cut short. Listen carefully to a good singer and you'll hear the difference between one who has never been taught, and one who has been trained. It shows in the breath control, the range of notes, the tones/timbres available, the dynamics (louds and softs). I think it's the same for dancers - even 'natural' dancers can learn more with a teacher than without, and this provides more nuance to the dance. Of course, it can also restrict the dancer especially if the teacher strongly encourages mimicry rather than refining what already exists. I think it takes a good teacher to know the difference.

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