Metamorphosis Belly Dance

Caroline_afifi

New member
In rural areas it is difficult to get any sort of public transport.

Having said that, there are classes in almost every part of the UK.

People here generally dont want to travel more than an hour to a workshop or class. When I first started, I had to. There were local classes of course but nothing which would stretch me or challenge me once I had developed the basics.

We had a good teacher for basics called Marion Watson. One of her pupils started teaching after one of her 10 week night school courses.
She was much younger and thought she had it all. She was of course more supple and lively but she was not the better dancer and still is'nt.

She is older now, still teaching and is still technically pretty bad, has little understanding of styles and has her own cult like following.

Setting yourself up as a teacher too soon does not mean you will automatically become good yourself, not unless you contine to learn and develop and this should never stop.
 

lizaj

New member
I wouldn't call your statement obnoxious De Sage just well..you have no idea what our roads are like. The traffic is so heavy that car and bus travel times bear no relation to distance. Trains when they run on time are OK and we have a far better network than some countries but it doesn't always cover rural areas. But I do get exasperated with people who find travelling 10 miles by a very regular and usually reliable train service to classes and refuse to cross a city with good bus links to do specialist workshops. Just shows they aren't THAT keen. I don't drive but I have used buses and trains and bummed lifts to get to workshops and classes. When my teacher left my town , I asked a teacher who taught elsewhere but lived nearby to take me with her. Sometimes you have to be cheeky and sometimes if the Mohammed can't come to the mountain....... Yes my friends and I paid a teacher in a town 15 miles away to drive to us.
If the OP of this thread was THAT keen to learn to dance she could get to a good teacher. I also note that Eva Green who is a well known dancer and teacher in the UK advertises that she covers Folkestone!!!! Also Jaqueline Chapman one of the first ever dancer/teachers in the UK is not that far away. Canterbury does have teachers as does Dartford. A desert porkies on Youtube!M dear child you have no excuse. THAT keen to dance mmmm THAT keen to perform... am beginning to think that's right. If you love something don't you want to do it justice?:think:.......
 

Aniseteph

New member
I don't think it's obnoxious either. OK transport here is not a bundle of fun, but it isn't entirely unfair to compare our situation with someone living in the US 30 miles from the nearest town.

There's a class less than an hour up the motorway from Folkestone, and several more classes within a few miles of that one, with respected teachers too. Canterbury is even closer to most of them. Some desert. :rolleyes:

O...M...G.... teaching...
YouTube - MetamorphosisBD's Channel
This is terrible terrible terrible. NOOOOOO!!!!!
 
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teela

New member
The bottom line is that if a person really wants to learn to belly dance, they will find a way. They might go by bus, walk, car, whatever it takes. Right now, I live in the middle of nowhere. If I want to go to anywhere else, I have to go by airplane. Even with this restriction, I manage to get to a couple workshops per year and I try to take lessons whenever I"m in a town with teachers. The rest of the year, I have to rely on DVD's. The point is, I want to learn, so I find the time and the transportation to make it happen.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I have had students regularly drive 40 miles round trip from the closest town and almost 100 miles round trip from the next closest town to take lessons once a week. The closest workshops are about 200 miles from here, even further than they were before Marjorie lost her studio space in Cheyenne. In this part of the country, driving long distances is just a fact of life. Traffic is sparse, but weather conditions can be horrific.

Sounds to me like if one wishes to take dance lessons in the UK, it can be managed. Belly dance in Canterbury- do you know how romantic that sounds to me?
 

Jane

New member
Hee hee. :lol: I live in Montana and the next closest "big" town, Butte, is about an hour away from my house. Most of the "big" towns here are about an hour and a half from each other. Billings is about four hours away going 80mph on the highway. We have right around one million people in our entire state and it's a very large geographic area with crappy roads going over the continental divide in the winter. There are a couple of good teachers in Montana though. It's also possible to travel 6 hours to Spokane, Wa or 8 to Salt Lake City, Ut- I've done it several times! I don't get to live in a town, I live in a "census designated place." Isolated ain't even the word...


Someone I respect pointed out that this was an obnoxious statement on my part, and in retrospect I agree. I haven't experienced UK transportation myself, so I have no right to express an opinion about whether it's good or bad. I apologize for my abrupt and uninformed evaluation and pronouncement of the ease of using UK transportation and negotiating English terrain.

I do notice, however, that although M finds it too difficult to travel to study bellydance, she does travel to teach bellydance.:confused:
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
Hey I killed this thread last time, so I'm digging it up again. :D

As someone who is about to commit novelty Christmas fusion (in the privacy of our hafla) and has been sewing the costumes ALL DAY :mad:, I was gobsmacked by this one.



:protest:

oO;;; oh...em...GEEEEEEEEE...*smashes face on computer desk repeatedly*

She dances about as well as I do, and TRUST me, that's not saying much... :confused:

This is by no means joy to the bellydance world.

What truly ticks me off is that she claims to have the basics down, but from this performance, even a noob like myself can see that her execution of even the basic moves is by no means polished. If she can't even do the basics well, I shudder for her students.

She is very sweet, but sweetness alone is not going to make one a good dancer, neither will slick marketing (or teaching, as someone else already mentioned).

AND WHY IN BLUE BLAZES IS SHE DANCING IN HER UNDERWEAR?!? IN THE COLD?!? :mad: :naghty: :doh: :protest: :mad: :wall:

And thank you to those who were also offended at her choice of music/costuming.
 
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lizaj

New member
Hey, Jane, meet me in Billings sometime- I'm about five hours away, depending on how fast I drive. :D

It wil cost you a lot...a lot..less to drive those miles than it would for us:lol:


Just puts road conditions and costs in perspective My husband's journey to work across country through tiny lanes then a motorway then city roads at 7am takes 40 mins but it has ,when he comes home at "rush hour", taken him 2 1/2 hours.

That statement does not excuse the student who can't be arsed to get on a bus for a 40 min ride to cross British city or drive for 10 miles. Let's face it so so much more attractive to start teaching and performing on your doorstep and being able to say you are a "pro" and earnng money than make the effort in time and money to lern to do something properly:rolleyes: This young lady appears to dance in a restaurant. All I can say if a group of dance fans go there for a meal, I would imagine the proprietor might be told in no uncertain terms what they think of the entertainment.
 

jenc

New member
oO;;; oh...em...GEEEEEEEEE...*smashes face on computer desk repeatedly*

She dances about as well as I do, and TRUST me, that's not saying much... :confused:

Don't do yourself down - you are coming along nicely - and are aware of what you are striving for.

Full marks to you
 

Shanazel

Moderator
It wil cost you a lot...a lot..less to drive those miles than it would for us:lol:

I don't doubt that for a second. In a 200 mile drive in Wyoming, I might pass three or four small towns, which I define as anything with a larger human population than dogs. In Ireland (and northern Texas!) it seems like I never am able to get up to speed before I have to slow down again for some little village. Driving in Ireland was an education in itself and I stuck to the relatively unpopulated west-central coast.
 

teela

New member
I got to thinking that perhaps this young lady's choices can be used to help other people understand why you do not want to teach as soon as you feel "you've got the moves down" and are ready to teach. It can help enforce the idea that dancing is more than just moves but matching the moves to the music so the musicality of both can be seen. It can show what happens when the person has not properly learned the moves and how it shows up in their dancing. Just a thought. Since she is not listening to the advice she has recieved from people who are professional, perhaps we can use her to help educate others.
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
I got to thinking that perhaps this young lady's choices can be used to help other people understand why you do not want to teach as soon as you feel "you've got the moves down" and are ready to teach. It can help enforce the idea that dancing is more than just moves but matching the moves to the music so the musicality of both can be seen. It can show what happens when the person has not properly learned the moves and how it shows up in their dancing. Just a thought. Since she is not listening to the advice she has recieved from people who are professional, perhaps we can use her to help educate others.

If only that worked!

it does not seem to make the slightest bit of difference to anything.
Most countries are still churning out incompetant teachers/performers by the hour. Most areas of every country around the world seems to have at least one.

The minute you start talking about standards, quality, history, culture,knowledge, information, saftey... you get labelled jealous, a kill joy, evil, boring, oppresive, restrictive, Belly dance Police etc. etc.

It seems to be the way it is to be honest.. this dance is increasingly becoming about the personal needs and gratification of individuals rather than the art form.
 
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lizaj

New member
If only that worked!

it does not seem to make the slightest bit of difference to anything.
Most countries are still churning out incompetant teachers/performers by the hour. Most areas of every country around the world seems to have at least one.

The minute you start talking about standards, quality, history, culture,knowledge, information, saftey... you get labelled jealous, a kill joy, evil, boring etc, oppresive, restrictive, Belly dance Police etc. etc.

It seems to be the way it is to be honest.. this dance is increasingly becoming about the personal needs and gratification of individuals rather than the art form.

I have just booked a Christmas night out to a venue with a dancer with a great write-up and have been informed last night she is self-taught! Ho hum!
 

Caroline_afifi

New member
Is this in Southport?

If so, someone told me last week that she was only 14 years old and is escorted by her mum :shok: is this true???
 

lizaj

New member
Is this in Southport?

If so, someone told me last week that she was only 14 years old and is escorted by her mum :shok: is this true???

I am told maybe just fifteen and I am in two minds about wether to go. I do believe the younger a dancer starts, the best chance she has of becoming good. Maybe if she has talent someone will be around to say..yup off you go to get tuition and a star is born...but what is it about people who think this dance is not worthy of learning before you demonstrate/teach it? However I can forgive a young teenager for not thinking it through..an adult NO!

I think about the years of classes and workshops and I know, practise at home, that created this area's best young dancer who I was watching last night. She is truly talented and didn't go the restaurant route until she was older..not a lot older but those 3 years make a hell of a difference.
It's such a shame people can't think beyond the "cute" factor which is pleasant in any dancer but not the most important by any means and ...girls doesn't last.....;)
 

teela

New member
Caroline: I understand. I only found out that one of my first teachers had had one year of lessons before she started teaching after I'd been with her for a while. She was older and her excuse for going into teaching at that point was that she was a natural dancer. She performed at a local restaurant on a regular basis, had a troupe but never discussed anything about music, culture, famous dancers, etc. I think it was when I started taking lessons from another teacher who had gone to Egypt several times that I started learning more about culture and the Egyptian dance style. As far as music, culture, etc, I've learned more reading the threads here.
I also have seen some local fusion dancers who perform "belly dance" that I don't recognize as belly dance. They had a show attached to a workshop that I performed in. The theme was "Dark Fairy tales" I chose a middle eastern piece of music, did a middle eastern style dance and labeled it "The Little Match Girl". My daughter provided the match girl and lit the match (we used an electric candle) and she died by the end. I was the dream/vision. Afterwords, one of the fusion dancers commented that she wasn't sure about my idea when she first saw the writeup but it worked.
I know its very common for beginners to see themselves further along than they are. Maybe we can save it for bad dancer nights.
 

da Sage

New member
Is this in Southport?

If so, someone told me last week that she was only 14 years old and is escorted by her mum :shok: is this true???

If she is 14 or 15, I certainly *hope* she is escorted by her mother to gigs!

Some people really can self-teach effectively, and many pro singers got their start as children. And how many popular singers were truly "taught" how to sing, hmm?

On the other hand, I'm always slightly suspect of self-taught people who teach; my experience is that self-taught teachers' classes are not as focused, nor do they move as quickly as the classes of teachers who have had skill-specific teaching methods modeled for them over a long period of time.

But the proof is in the pudding. I certainly don't think the "performing arts degree" and the 3.5 years of college dance classes I took qualify me to teach or perform bellydance professionally. Nor do my 4 years of bellydance classes (and more years of video study). In my mind, the proper qualifications are: 1) do you dance at (or very near) pro level, and 2) do you have the *teaching* talent as well as patience and personal integrity necessary to handle a class.
 

adiemus

New member
da Sage, you've just put into words something that isn't very common - recognising that some people are good teachers, while others may be great performers but don't have the necessary to teach.
Teaching is a specific skill (or set of skills) and while I think it's vital to be able to dance in order to demonstrate, developing specific teaching skills is also vital. I think this applies across the board in any area of human learning - and so often the skills needed to teach aren't appreciated or acknowledged.
WRT 'self taught' singers - while many people can sing without being taught, to really develop a voice and use it effectively requires discipline and learning. Unfortunately many untrained singers damage their voices and their life as a singer is unnecessarily cut short. Listen carefully to a good singer and you'll hear the difference between one who has never been taught, and one who has been trained. It shows in the breath control, the range of notes, the tones/timbres available, the dynamics (louds and softs). I think it's the same for dancers - even 'natural' dancers can learn more with a teacher than without, and this provides more nuance to the dance. Of course, it can also restrict the dancer especially if the teacher strongly encourages mimicry rather than refining what already exists. I think it takes a good teacher to know the difference.
 
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