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  1. #11
    V.I.P. alosha's Avatar
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    This is way more than a 'sameness'. She said it was her solo that she's been choreographing when she performed it for us, then performed it a few days later saying it was improvised.

    Please don't think I am trying to pick on anyone or anything, I'm just trying to figure out if she's 'lying' or if saying 'improvised' is quite loose. I've only ever seen other cabaret dancers specify that the performance was improvised when it was only the first or second time they'd heard the music, not when it was a song they'd been working on a choreography to.

    I learn SO much from this forum!

  2. #12
    Premium Member Aniseteph's Avatar
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    Why not ask?

    It's entirely reasonable, if she demos it in class you should be able to ask questions so you can learn (or else what is it doing in class time?). Was that all choreographed or improvised or a mix, how do you structure your dancing?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Marya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alosha View Post
    This is way more than a 'sameness'. She said it was her solo that she's been choreographing when she performed it for us, then performed it a few days later saying it was improvised.

    Please don't think I am trying to pick on anyone or anything, I'm just trying to figure out if she's 'lying' or if saying 'improvised' is quite loose. I've only ever seen other cabaret dancers specify that the performance was improvised when it was only the first or second time they'd heard the music, not when it was a song they'd been working on a choreography to.

    I learn SO much from this forum!
    Maybe she forgot something and had to improvise, in that case I would say let her call it improvisation.

    Marya

  4. #14
    V.I.P. alosha's Avatar
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    I'm doing the smile and nod, but I really just wanted to clarify because I was kinda confused as to what constituted an improvised performance.

    Thanks Everyone!

  5. #15
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marya View Post
    Maybe she forgot something and had to improvise, in that case I would say let her call it improvisation.

    Marya
    In that case, I am never more improvisational than when I am trying to recall a choreography!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by alosha View Post
    So what do you do when a dancer says that her performance was improvised, when you know it wasn't because you've seen her perform the same routine previously?

    To be labeled as improvised does the whole piece need to be, or just a tiny bit (about 30 sec) ?

    Argh.
    A good dancer can improvise and make it look as though it's choreographed. If she knows that music inside out there will be key parts that she does repetitive moves to... I do this myself. Then there are parts you change each time as the mood dictates. To someone who's perhaps only watched it a couple of times, it may look identical but in fact only part of it is.

  7. #17
    Member staranise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
    I'm always a little sceptical about ATS improv. As I understand, one person improvs the rest play follow the bouncing butt. Just like we do in Egyptian classes. Only in class the next move can be literally anything - we probably have never seen a breakdown of it and it may not be repeated.

    From friends who do ATS, I understand not only do they learn a set of acceptable moves - and cues - separately, but they also practice together like nothing else. Is this really improv? Not for the group obviously, but for the leader? First, the moves are pre-defined, the assembly has all sorts of rules, then they practice the same number for hours every week. I'd put money on the result, in most cases, is very similar from run to run. Yes, something new might be thrown in, but the point of all that rehearsal is to make sure the group is never surprised and unable to follow.
    Sorry all if this is getting a bit off topic but I have a similar situation, possibly from the other side, that I'd like to share.

    I am in a troupe that is ATS based - usually for performance we choreograph but recently we've aspired to make all of our performances "improv" with the aim to present true ATS. Our first fully "improvised" performance was the other month at a event in our community that featured several dance schools, most were bellydance and most of the audience were bellydancers. We are the only tribal school in this area.

    we practiced so much the weeks leading up to the event, really getting in sync with each other, learning each other's nuances but also how to communicate cues in advance of the movements, it really knocked our dancing up a notch. We advertised that we were doing Improvised American Tribal Style bellydance. When the performance came along it went really well, there were no stuff ups and we got positive feedback from members of the audience.

    A few days later I was surprised to find out our teacher/director had communicated with a teacher who was in the audience who said she did not believe that what we were doing an improvised dance, implying our teacher had deceived the audience. She had taken it upon herself to tell others her opinion, her evidence being that we were "too in sync" and that she had heard that we had put in extra practice!

    Now, prior to all of this we had all been at a workshop with a premier australian ATS teacher. The other teacher had then questioned the workshop presenter about the use of the term "Improv" when the movements themselves are choreographed. The workshop presenter understood and responded that it is technically an improvised choreography .

    I definitely prefer the use of this term, and perhaps in hindsight we should have used that in our introduction. But what we had said was not a lie!

  8. #18
    V.I.P. alosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharis View Post
    A good dancer can improvise and make it look as though it's choreographed. If she knows that music inside out there will be key parts that she does repetitive moves to... I do this myself. Then there are parts you change each time as the mood dictates. To someone who's perhaps only watched it a couple of times, it may look identical but in fact only part of it is.
    We were told it was her choreography she had been working on, but there were a few 'holes' yet to be choreographed.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by alosha View Post
    We were told it was her choreography she had been working on, but there were a few 'holes' yet to be choreographed.
    then a few holes is mostly choreographed and not improvised.

  10. #20
    V.I.P. alosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alosha View Post
    I really just wanted to clarify because I was kinda confused as to what constituted an improvised performance.

    Thanks Everyone!
    Just want to make sure everyone knows my intentions on the post!

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