The best and the worst bellydance ever

LeylaLanty

New member
The best I've seen, live performances, in no particular order: Soheir Zaki, Nagua Fu'ad, Fifi Abdo, Mona Said, Dandash ... maybe more, but those are the ones I think of first.

I've been watching dancers for over 30 years and have seen a few "worst" performances - mostly involving bad music choices, bad or boring technique, no feelings projected by the dancer, and so on...

BTW, Aniseteph, the explosion of sequins on kilts costume is an authentic costume which the Ghawazees in Egypt used to wear some time ago. Perhaps the performance was too long and boring, but the costumes were probably true to that style which is now out of style. :)

...
Worst... (oh dear why did I ask this?)... I think it has to be a troupe doing genuine Ghawazee which for all I know might well have been genuine but went on and on and on, with very odd costumes (like a sequin explosion in a kilt factory). I just got bored...
 

Aniseteph

New member
Hi Leyla
I suspected the outfits couldn't have just been made up! It was more that their slightly incongruous look was the icing on the cake on a rather long performance... if it had just been Boring-in-Bedlah (now THAT sounds weird. T-shirt slogan anyone? :lol: ) it'd just have vanished from my memory. Alas it has STUCK on account of those outfits.

But I do have two new additions to my Best Ever!!!! Both scoring at least an 11/10 in the feelings and expression department. So thank you Ludmilla for those clips, very timely because I just went to a workshop with Orit, and saw her perform too. Amazing!!!!!

Also Miriam Aluan. I had never heard of her before - she is incredible.

Inspirational weekend! :dance: :dance: :dance:
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I don't know about best and worst, but one of my favorites is a clip from Samia Gamal. I love to watch her, and I think this clip was from the early 1950s. My least favorites were at a show in Colorado that was billed as belly dance, but looked like some frentic mixture of fan dancing and electric shock: seven inch gold nails, costumes attached by three threads to a quarter inch piece of satin ribbon, and music that would sterilize mice.
 

Yasmina

New member
O my god, Yshka, the "finale" was indeed a mix of comedy and horror. Actually, when I was back in Holland again, I imitated her finale for my little sister to make her laugh and it worked. The "costume change" was also very....incomprehensible. You know the funny part? I talked to her on the first day, I was really sad that there was no place in the Leyla Jouvana workshop and she said "Well, that's no problem! There's still place in my workshop!" and she gave me a promising smile. Thank god I didn't throw away my money!
 

Miss_Winnii

New member
My worst was ''flames of passion'' It was a bit ''to'' and very fake, and the dancers just couldnt dance. very fake costumes, and the musci just sounded like house music.
The best was ''wedding invitation'' it was mixed with indian dance, that made it really nice. it was so real, with a orchestra, a story, beuatifull dancers, nice dances
 

Helena

New member
Worst performance: this year I went to see a dancer perform in Belgium. let's say this: claw hands, super-UBDC and most un-elegant performance I've ever witnessed:eek: Couldn't enjoy the dancing, hands freaked me out.

Hi Yshka and Yasmine, could someone send me a pm to tell me which person you are talking about so I don't make the mistake of taking a workshop with her? I know there's one teacher in Belgium capable of dancing the way you described, but I don't know if it's her you saw perform.. :lol:

Thanks! ;)
 

Kharmine

New member
For the best, it would be Samia Gamel in high heels, a sheath dress and a little pearl necklace doing the classiest number I have ever seen! The outfit might have seemed ridiculous on anyone else, given the contest. She looked like royalty gettin' down.

The worst I saw recently was a live performance bya rather tall young woman who was technically OK -- but she was obviously anoxeric and, given the very skimpy outfit, oblivious to the impact she made. When she stood sidewise, her hipbones stood out farther than her breasts. Her snake arms were like the waving legs of a spider. She was painful to watch.
 

da Sage

New member
The worst I saw recently was a live performance bya rather tall young woman who was technically OK -- but she was obviously anoxeric and, given the very skimpy outfit, oblivious to the impact she made. When she stood sidewise, her hipbones stood out farther than her breasts. Her snake arms were like the waving legs of a spider. She was painful to watch.

If the worst bellydance you have ever seen was "technically OK" :confused:, but the dancer was simply too skinny for your taste :mad:, you have been an extremely lucky audience member!

I know a few "obviously anorexic" women, who *aren't* anorexic. And they are hurt by rude comments about their bodies, just like fat women are.
 

Kharmine

New member
Da Sage, I respectfully disagree. There is a difference between being naturally very skinny and setting out to look like a concentration camp survivor. (I grew up being called "Olive Oyl" because childhood malnourishment made me underweight.)

And I respectfully point out that I did not claim this dancer was the worse I ever saw -- she was the worst I saw recently, meaning of recent performances I've viewed. A dancer's performance is more than about technical quality. This was a mature woman who, even if not anorexic, was so unnaturally and painfully thin that her appearance in a very skimpy outfit was disturbing by ANY standards, not just personal "taste" and so, IMHO, distracted from her performance.

Yes, that's only my opinion (but also the opinion of many others in the audience, judging from the comments I overheard). and, yes, there is a small chance this dancer was horribly thin for some unfortunate reason that had nothing to do with deliberately starving herself.

To be honest, I very much doubt it because people with, say a wasting disease or some unusual hereditary condition that causes them to look like walking skeletons (I am not exaggerating) don't normally put on a wispy outfit and dance vigorously in public.

But you see it all the time with ballerinas, gymnasts, actresses and models
This is not a matter of individual "taste," this is a health issue. A health issue that grimly stalks, among others, teen-age girls -- who think they aren't "pretty" unless their bones are sticking out at right angles like all the airbrushed models and actresses they see in the movies and magazines.

If my comments had been made at any time and place that they would have reached this dancer's ears, yes, that would have been rude. Rudeness is meant to hurt, and I did not intend to hurt anyone. Nor have I. I have not identified the dancer, and I have deliberately kept vague any details that might identify her.

I was troubled by this woman's performance because of her disturbing appearance. I've had friends who had this disease. and I've counseled kids who don't seem to believe me when I tell them what horrible things wanting to be that thin can do to them. I'm angered by a society that encourages this deadly and unnatural "ideal" of feminine beauty.

That's what prompted me to comment, not a desire to be rude about someone's natural appearance.
 

Gabi

New member
Da Sage, I respectfully disagree. There is a difference between being naturally very skinny and setting out to look like a concentration camp survivor. (I grew up being called "Olive Oyl" because childhood malnourishment made me underweight.)

And I respectfully point out that I did not claim this dancer was the worse I ever saw -- she was the worst I saw recently, meaning of recent performances I've viewed. A dancer's performance is more than about technical quality. This was a mature woman who, even if not anorexic, was so unnaturally and painfully thin that her appearance in a very skimpy outfit was disturbing by ANY standards, not just personal "taste" and so, IMHO, distracted from her performance.

Yes, that's only my opinion (but also the opinion of many others in the audience, judging from the comments I overheard). and, yes, there is a small chance this dancer was horribly thin for some unfortunate reason that had nothing to do with deliberately starving herself.

To be honest, I very much doubt it because people with, say a wasting disease or some unusual hereditary condition that causes them to look like walking skeletons (I am not exaggerating) don't normally put on a wispy outfit and dance vigorously in public.

But you see it all the time with ballerinas, gymnasts, actresses and models
This is not a matter of individual "taste," this is a health issue. A health issue that grimly stalks, among others, teen-age girls -- who think they aren't "pretty" unless their bones are sticking out at right angles like all the airbrushed models and actresses they see in the movies and magazines.

If my comments had been made at any time and place that they would have reached this dancer's ears, yes, that would have been rude. Rudeness is meant to hurt, and I did not intend to hurt anyone. Nor have I. I have not identified the dancer, and I have deliberately kept vague any details that might identify her.

I was troubled by this woman's performance because of her disturbing appearance. I've had friends who had this disease. and I've counseled kids who don't seem to believe me when I tell them what horrible things wanting to be that thin can do to them. I'm angered by a society that encourages this deadly and unnatural "ideal" of feminine beauty.

That's what prompted me to comment, not a desire to be rude about someone's natural appearance.

And I would "respectfully disagree" with that.

It is like you said your opinion. I've heard opinions stating the precise words you are using for people I would look at and many others, especially in other countries than the US, as perfectly normal.

We cannot truly debate the condition of this person as we can't see her but I can tell you that I would not make an arbitrary decision of a persons state of health, mental or physical, easily.

Unless the woman you describe had a LOT of other physically observable problems I don't think you can make an assumption of anorexia. Also, people in ballet and sports who actually are successful in these endeavors rarely are actually anorexia as their health would not permit them to continue. Anorexia is a pimple on a nats arse compared to the disease of obesity.
 

Suheir

New member
Best performance: Suha Azar demonstrating her beautiful Oriental choreography in her workshop

Worst performance: *Too* many, but one that springs to mind recently involves someone busting out of her bra with her thong clearly visible through her obscenely tight dress - and looking sooooooo pleased with herself, yeuch!
 

da Sage

New member
Da Sage, I respectfully disagree. There is a difference between being naturally very skinny and setting out to look like a concentration camp survivor. (I grew up being called "Olive Oyl" because childhood malnourishment made me underweight.)

And I respectfully point out that I did not claim this dancer was the worse I ever saw -- she was the worst I saw recently, meaning of recent performances I've viewed. A dancer's performance is more than about technical quality. This was a mature woman who, even if not anorexic, was so unnaturally and painfully thin that her appearance in a very skimpy outfit was disturbing by ANY standards, not just personal "taste" and so, IMHO, distracted from her performance.

Yes, that's only my opinion (but also the opinion of many others in the audience, judging from the comments I overheard). and, yes, there is a small chance this dancer was horribly thin for some unfortunate reason that had nothing to do with deliberately starving herself.

To be honest, I very much doubt it because people with, say a wasting disease or some unusual hereditary condition that causes them to look like walking skeletons (I am not exaggerating) don't normally put on a wispy outfit and dance vigorously in public.

But you see it all the time with ballerinas, gymnasts, actresses and models
This is not a matter of individual "taste," this is a health issue. A health issue that grimly stalks, among others, teen-age girls -- who think they aren't "pretty" unless their bones are sticking out at right angles like all the airbrushed models and actresses they see in the movies and magazines.

If my comments had been made at any time and place that they would have reached this dancer's ears, yes, that would have been rude. Rudeness is meant to hurt, and I did not intend to hurt anyone. Nor have I. I have not identified the dancer, and I have deliberately kept vague any details that might identify her.

I was troubled by this woman's performance because of her disturbing appearance. I've had friends who had this disease. and I've counseled kids who don't seem to believe me when I tell them what horrible things wanting to be that thin can do to them. I'm angered by a society that encourages this deadly and unnatural "ideal" of feminine beauty.

That's what prompted me to comment, not a desire to be rude about someone's natural appearance.

I apologize for my misunderstanding about your wording. I thought you were saying that you recently saw the worst performance of your experience, rather than simply describing the worst performance you'd seen recently.

I appreciate your discretion in not talking about the performer's body where she or her friends could hear you. :) I don't think you're trying to be mean, but a naturally slender, long-armed dancer might read your post, and feel just as bad about her body as I would, if I read a post about a dancer with "a belly that shook like a sow's".

And do keep in mind that the internet is a small place. My personal respect for a talented local dancer went into the toilet last month, when I saw a comment she posted about plus-sizes. :mad: So never fool yourself that you are having a completely private conversation, if you are having it online!

I share your concerns about food and body obsession. I have known three women well enough to determine that they were anorexic - and in all three cases, they constantly covered themselves in layers of clothing. Typically I assume that a skinny woman who displays her body in a skimpy outfit is either naturally thin, or just heavily (and yes, perhaps unhealthily) into figure control (unless she works professionally in entertainment, or is a ballet dancer - those communities tend to screw with your head). My opinion is that real anorexics can rarely bring themselves to expose their bodies at all.

I see lots of skinny girls in skimpy outfits, and I think it's a reflection of society's prejudice against fleshy women - if a size 8 wears hot pants and a tube top, some idiot will make fun of her for being too "fat" for the outfit (even if she's mostly muscle). Only women who are size 4 or smaller, with no breasts or butt to speak of, can wear these clothes without receiving the "too fat" label. So it's only natural that the ethereally slim and the painfully skinny sometimes wear next to nothing. They are the only women for whom it's an real choice. :(
 
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prince ali baba

Active member
Constructive Criticism

How about not label any dance the best and the worst? Why not just use constructive criticism, so not to discourage people.
 

Kharmine

New member
Well, the problem with any kind of criticism is that somebody is bound to feel offended about someone else's observations and opinions no matter how carefully put, no matter how many facts may bear out against emotion.

But it does appear that for some the physical appearance of a dancer is a real landmine of a topic and maybe this thread, to stay reasonable, should focus solely on technique.

That's my recommendation, but as I don't have the expertise to get into that I will bow out of this thread.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Anorexia is a pimple on a nats arse compared to the disease of obesity.

People die of complications of both of these problems. It is a strange thing, though- society is far more likely to attach moral judgements to health issues that have to do with weight than they are to problems like lupus or MS, as if an individual who must struggle with a weight related disorder is somehow weak or inferior to those who don't have the problem. It adds one more layer of angony to a struggle that no sane person would wish upon herself or anyone else.
 

Gabi

New member
People die of complications of both of these problems. It is a strange thing, though- society is far more likely to attach moral judgements to health issues that have to do with weight than they are to problems like lupus or MS, as if an individual who must struggle with a weight related disorder is somehow weak or inferior to those who don't have the problem. It adds one more layer of angony to a struggle that no sane person would wish upon herself or anyone else.

Zzzzzactly - and this of course is also true of anyone with any problem involving psychological issues. It is very unfortunate.

It's bad enough we all get and are susceptible to this at large; I really wish women would try to be more careful not to use their own slant of the issues to make judgements of those with the opposite slant.

Just to keep this a little on target :think:

My view - I've seen dancers that people have called wicked names on both ends of the spectrum who have been absolutely delightful and most of them perfectly healthy. It's the DANCE ability that counts. Even if a dancer is struggling with issues of anorexia or obesity that would hopefully be viewed with an open mind (and without pre-judgment in the abscence of direct knowledge) and the understanding that those dancers may benefit from doing and performing our dance even more than most who would generally be considered more attractive and healthy appearing.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
My "least favorite" performances seem to revolve around one theme -- a poor fusion of Middle Eastern "cabaret" and ballet/modern/ballroom/jazz whatever western dance.

Maybe I'm just obstinate in my old age, but most of what I've seen in this genre just fails miserably. I want to ask these women, "what was your theme? what was your goal? What were you trying to say?" but then I don't want to get involved in a long discussion about how I don't understand and appreciate their "art" (a la any discussion from Bhuz regarding last year's Rakkassa.)

Oddly enough, I can appreciate and enjoy a lot of Tribal fusions -- maybe because those dancers typically fuse in East Indian or Central Asian and that makes more sense to me. Dalia Carella and Amaya come to mind as some of the better artists in that vein.

The best performances are those I've seen live. I only wish I could have seen Nadia Gamal live. Sigh...
 

Recnadocir

New member
The best performances are always when it's a group of women, they go on just before me, have very long hair, and do lots of those arcing head movements where their hair sweeps back and forth across the floor. Yes! Thanks ladies! Sweep the floor for mahty mahty Ri-co!
 

Aniseteph

New member
The best performances are always when it's a group of women, they go on just before me, have very long hair, and do lots of those arcing head movements where their hair sweeps back and forth across the floor. Yes! Thanks ladies! Sweep the floor for mahty mahty Ri-co!

:lol: And this happens how often?
 

Recnadocir

New member
:lol: And this happens how often?
In my imagination, it happens every time. Then after I strike my final pose, they all come back on stage and fan me with palm fronds while chanting: "We got-a Ri-co, mahty mahty Ri-co!"

In reality, the floor sweep thing has happened a couple of times. The fanning and chanting, not yet. But I'm the eternal optimist!;)
 
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