Zumba and Belly Dance?

[eden eyes]

Hmmm...

I love belly dance. I love latin dance. I love polynesian dance. I love teaching all these things. HOWEVER I prefer to leave belly dance OUT of Zumba. Zumba, in case you haven't heard of it, is the new dance fitness craze that is built primarily on Latin dance (though I have seen some zumba instructors that have no idea what latin dance is and so they do a hip hop version of it :naghty: ) with body training that include some hip hop, afro caribbean, polynesian, reggaeton, and belly dance influences. I have gotten into teaching Zumba, which I don't call it that because i don't have the certification for it and I teach it through a different method (more dancing, less just moving around).

IMHO i dislike the idea of mixing belly dance with Zumba. you can see my reasoning below. now perhaps instead of saying "now lets do some belly dancing" why don't they just say, "now lets do some belly dance-like moves" because those videos are...not belly dance.

in my class i don't even mention the word belly dance or anything like it. i prefer sticking with the latin dances primarily. i am trying to give other instructors the benefit of the doubt by saying they are just modifying the moves to give a better cardiovascular workout, but some of those look too complicated and possibly to floppy (and dangerous at that) for exercise students to do.





YouTube - Zumba belly dance with Angela (i can't even bing myself to posting this)

YouTube - ZUMBA BELLYDANCE WITH PHYLLIS

YouTube - zumba zumba flamenco y belly dancing con katerine!! (the "belly dance" starts near middle)

YouTube - Nathan Blake does lil " belly dance" for Zumba class ("classic zumba belly dance" omg...)

sorry for the rant...i'm just really peeved at this. you know, people have to take the whole shibang to get the certification and htey have to do workshops to learn salsa, cumbia, samba, tango, flamenco, etc. i desperately wonder who taught this belly dance to them...it seems pretty uniform among instructors.

give me your opinions

note: i'm not trying to diss other zumba instructors, i'm just, as i said before, peeved

 

[Mosaic]

WOW! - I couldn't even finish watching watching the Angela one, and the 2nd one posted here, the instructor, does the weirdest and strangest move with her leg/foot on hipdrops ( if you can really call them that) - looks like you could dislocate something. :shok:

Calling any of them Bellydance is totally off base IMO, OK they have a few moves that have a BD influence, but have been stylised to suit what they are doing, but to label the workout as Zumba BD shows none of them know zilch about BD in the first place. I am sure some students will go away and believe they can actually bellydance:naghty:

What can one do .. sadly nothing, but what you are doing Edeneyes, refuse to add the title of BD to your workout. Probably the Latin American and Hip-Hop professionals feel the same way.
~Mosaic

 

[eden eyes]

ugh I'M not even a latin dance professional but i know terrible technique when i see it. I watched the intro dvd and died a little inside. that's why i can't call my class zumba. it's got better technique

 

[gisela]

YouTube - Zumba belly dance with Angela (i can't even bing myself to posting this)

This one was really something. The bellydance consisting of shoulder shimmies, for four seconds and then galloping from side to side with something that seems like it's supposed to look like pharaonic arms (which I kind of dislike already):lol:
I feel bad for dissing someone but puhleeezze... bellydance??? how, where, why???

 

[Kharmine]

Sounds like someone tried to combine "samba" with "zambra."

Looks like neither belly dance nor any Spanish/Latin dances I'm familiar with. Why bother? The real Latin dances are so much fun as they are.

 

[eden eyes]

I know!!!! (to both of you)

i have no doubt in my mind that it is a terrific exercise and i have seen a few zumba instructors that have good dance technique. i do my version all the time and i sweat my butt off ray: so i consider it a good workout anyway. the only time i really strayed from technique was when i made them lift their hips and arms more when doing the chachacha but i made a vocal note saying it was a "fitness variation meant to give your obliques a better workout. don't try to do this on the pro dance floor or you will look silly."

now how hard is that, other than being breathless?? not hard at all.

i have a potential BD student from Brazil who was complaining to me that nobody in my area dances. she said she went to a zumba class and had to leave, the dancing was so bad. she was shocked at the overly-americanized (i hate using that term, but in this case it calls for it) "latin" dancing.

did you notice any of the youtube comments? none of them say anything like, "Where's the belly dance?" or "what the hell is this?!" haha they all say, "wow that is so fun, i wanna dance like that."

btw: zumba is a Colombian term that basically means "to party and have fun!"

 

[s1dur1_sab1tu]

Zumba Poop

I like my Zumba class too, and actually I tend to do all the moves with a BD translation as I'm actually afraid I might hurt myself or develop bad habits doing what the instructor does. Sooo...I'm the prissiest Zumbateer in the land - refusing to squat and umi, round my back or pump my groin forward ( I substitue ab pulses instead ). Hey I'm there for the exercise and she never gives any pointers, so I just do what I want and what feels safe to me.

Actually last week, the instructor started doing repeated umi's with her legs about 12 inches apart and she motioned for me to come to the head of the class since she knew I was a BDer. I got to the front and before I could stop myself, I said quietly, 'Actually we'd never do them with our legs that far apart...' Man, she actually looked a tad embarrassed and closed it up. Sorry, it's the teacher in me...I just couldn't hold it back...but maybe she'll actually take the time to learn how it's done properly, she's been asking me a bunch of questions about classes.

I think it's just a lack of knowledge...I have had about 3 different instructors this year and I usually tell them I'll be doing stuff the BD way. Maybe one of them will catch on eventually...

KS
Ms. KittieSparkle and The Queens of Chaos

 

[anissazumba]

Well, to tell you truth....

Beto--in ALL of his workshops SAYS that his moves are NOT belly dancing. more like belly dancing FEEL. He had a REAL belly dancer in one of the workshops and showed us all how his moves really aren't bellydancing. He says that about his Flamenco moves as well.

You have to remember that it's latin dance fitness with international FEEL. It's all still FITNESS though and we need to interpret some of the real bellydancing moves into a group fitness atmosphere. Don't hate... it's just an INTERPRETATION. I even tell my peeps that i teach that it's not TRUELY bellydancing.

and maybe the videos you chose aren't the greatest representation of zumba instructors :naghty:.... There's a wide range out there--i truely admit. That's a main reason why, in my choreography vids, i do NOT post the name ZUMBA anywhere on the vid. So no one judges either way.

 

[~Diana~]

*sigh* this is like my local gym who decided to start a fitness class that incorporates bellydance moves in it. I disagreed with it and boycotted it. My trainer was talking to me about it during one session and i told her that the moves they were doing were dangerous cause they were not doing them correctly. After I explained why the gym stopped the program.

I don't think bellydance moves of any sort should be used in exercise at all. It does not allow time to teach people the proper positions to keep from hurting themselves.

 

[eden eyes]

KS- thank you for your story and for setting your instructor straight, however bad it might have made you feel

Anissazumba-thank you for posting your side of the argument. as i said before i cannot call myself a zumba instructor because i haven't done the workshops, so thank you for saying what goes on in them. it's good that the workshop leader makes a note about how it isn't BD but some odd feeling tells me that his students don't think the same way. and also the idea of having an international FEEL to something doesn't click with me very well. i'm not offended easily, i'm light hearted, etc, however that just doesn't seem right. that Angela belly dance particularly offended me in a way. kinda like when someone flaps their arms around and jumps in the air and calls it traditional west african dance, some pros or students of, might get offended too.

raylease understand i'm not hatin' on anyone, at least i'm not trying to sound that way. and i know that zumba is not a BD thing it is a Latin thing, but even then the Latin technique is crazy. maybe it's just that i have been dancing for so long that i have grown to appreciate technique more than others.

and actually those vids are the first i found on youtube when i typed in "Zumba belly dance."

and also i want to thank you for making it clear to your students that what you do isn't real BD. other instructors fail to mention that, perhaps because they forget or because they expect their students to already know that

and Cheart- thanks for your story too. i teach a fitness belly dance class but i stick with good and safe technique. it's not as cardiovascular as zumba, by far, but it does the job for those who might be too scared to try the zumba classes

 

[da Sage]

Stuff like this is why I don't like working out to most dancey exercise videos. As a dancer in training, my biggest priority is to improve the grace and complete the execution of my dance movement. Most dance aerobics seem to focus on speed, strength, depth of movement at the expense of movement quality and the finishing touches. I am sure that better dancers can do this without harming their dance, but as I'm relatively new to dance, I find I can't switch off well between "maximum calorie expenditure" mode and "artistic" mode. I do enjoy the dancing and the challenge of keeping up with a new "choreography" (a personal weak point), but admonitions to "take it farther", and "Push it!" really annoy me.

I try to log my exercise, and I don't count dance as "exercise" even though it kind of is. I log dance practices as "dance", I totally keep them separated in my mind.

ETA: it's clear that Nathan Blake from the posted video has a ton of dance talent. It's really disappointing to see somebody with so much potential who either has no idea what real bellydance is, or just prefers to do his own thing and call it bellydance.

Is the wide stance a Zumba basic? I see some of the Latin stuff is done with feet closer together, why wouldn't the BD stuff be done that way, too?

 

[lizaj]

They look like exercise classes to me. They look fast and funky and it doesn't look like they claim to teach anyone belly dance or anything else. Danceaerobics or whatever. Not my scene but they look Ok to me. As long as the students don't come out and say "We have learnt to belly dance", I'm OK with that.
Pity they have to put the specific dance labels on them.I think it's better if they are just labelled dance-exercise. As ever it's a problem of honest labelling.

 

[karena]

I'm confused. I'm reading that zumba combines latin dances, and hip hop, afro-caribbean, polynesian, reggeaton and BD. But it is only not OK to include BD.

Why is that? What is it about BD that makes it sacrosanct but not the others? Or is it just because it is a BD forum that people are going down that road, and am I misunderstanding?

 

[gisela]

You definitely have a point Karena. It's just that the examples were called "Zumba Bellydance" and some of the were described as " doing a little bellydancing" and many of them were wearing coin scarves.
Now, I haven't had ANY contact with anything Zumba in real life so it's not really something I would lie sleepless for.
I don't mind the fact that it is inspired by many different kinds of dances. I do think it is odd that the groups perform (seems like performances many of the videos) Zumba bellydance with hipscarves and it's turns out looking like that. :think:

 

[Ruby~<3]

Wow, that was HORRIBLE!

I also hate to be mean to people.. but I have to put my foot down some where... I am seriously bothered by what I just saw...They either need proper training in belly dance or they need to CUT it out of their program... We don't need people thinking these are actual belly dance moves...I mean I don't know how accurate the Latin moves are either In Zumba... mean it is just a workout program...but I know I'm a stickler for doing it right, learning how to do it right, or just not doing it at all.... I think if I where a student there (with what I do know about belly dance) I would complain and stop going... but I'm sure a good amount of these people don't know what the dance is supposed to look like or they just don't want to say anything...

I am sad by this....I think they need to stick to Latin moves or get some REAL belly dance training SOON!

I'm only a student belly dancer at the moment and even I am completely appalled by this...
Ruby

p.s.

I'm confused. I'm reading that zumba combines latin dances, and hip hop, afro-caribbean, polynesian, reggeaton and BD. But it is only not OK to include BD.

Why is that? What is it about BD that makes it sacrosanct but not the others? Or is it just because it is a BD forum that people are going down that road, and am I misunderstanding?

I think a lot of it does have to do with the fact we are belly dancers here.heheh

like I said just now.. I dont even know how accurate the latin and other dance moves are in Zumba but I think we can all agree that the dance moves should be done correctly and the teachers should be well trained before they do something like this..because I feel its disrespectful to any dance to claim its one thing and its really just inspired by the dance... should be like..."Zumba a workout INSPIRED/infuanced by world dances" or leave a disclaimer that its not real dancing just a workout program mennt to look some thing like dancing something...i dont know just my opinion.

 

[eden eyes]

hey everyone:

just wanted to let you know i've been doing some thinking and I have come to this understanding--

I have been dancing my heart out for a while and have become so utterly passionate about it that technique means everything. after observing myself in my classes to the best of my ability i realize this shows in my group fitness classes. and that's just it: GROUP FITNESS! no wonder my students rarely sweat so much!! I guess what i am trying to say is, maybe i overreacted a little. it's not a dance class; it's an aerobics class. if someone wants to learn how to dance they go to a dance studio and if someone wants to lose weight or get fit, they go to a gym. simple as that, rarely the other way around.

i guess what i am trying to say is i need to get over myself. the zumba instructors aren't teaching people how to dance they are just making them work out and have a good time. i am still going to leave belly dance out of zumba mainly because in order for beginner moves to be cardiovascular they need to be modified in such a way that they are hardly belly dance moves anymore, thus hurting the dance and maybe even the students (IMO that is).

i'm also leaving out polynesian, except for some tahitian since it is fast. however, i'm not completely leaving technique out of the question since obviously you need SOME in order to keep safe and be able to know what the heck you are doing (thus making it more fun!). i guess i'm trying to compromise...make it more aerobic style like zumba but stick to technique as best as i can without totally overwhelming my students.

geez these are the longest posts i think i have ever made in a row

I hope everyone had a good day!! :dance:

 

[Rania]

I take Zumba to. its a bit of everything, like you stated. But its taking pieces from each dance, and creating an excerise/dance version of it, instead of just excercise like kick boxing.. If you want to become an expert in a particular type of dance Zumba will not teach you that. if you desire to become a zumba expert zumna will teach you that. Perphaps, the youtube videos that say Zumba belly dance is what the uploader called it, but it was not what the class was called. Theres tons of Zumba classes in my area and non of them are called Zumba belly dance, Zumba latin dance, Zumba Hula, Zumba Bollywood or Zumba hip hop.

 

[Emmab81]

I am a belly dance teacher, a burlesque teacher, a student of ballet, certified Konga teacher and certified Zumba teacher. I love Zumba because I am a dancer and I am 30 years old and have been dancing for 28 years BUT I suck as a Zumba instructor and a Konga instructor because I WILL NOT teach the way that we are required to, I will not have 100 people in my class and 'just get them moving', I will have a maximum of 15-20 people in my class (MAX) because I can't keep an eye on more than that to make sure that they aren't putting their bodies at risk and they are sticking to safe dance posture and practices, I also suck because I will not just jump straight in and get them moving, if I am going to teach a class them I am going to teach them how to do a move safely and properly and there isn't space for that in a Zumba class, it is not what we are supposed to do and it isn't what the students expect because as someone said the participants are there for a gym class to lose weight not to learn to dance.

I am less upset about the inclusion of belly dance in their Zumba or Konga (Konga uses songs from Alabina) because when we are instructing we are not supposed to speak so there isn't space to stop and say 'now we are going to do a belly dance song' you just go into it and they are supposed to follow. If Zumba is going to expose people to middle eastern music and belly dance inspired moves then that can be a good thing. Raising awareness of Middle Eastern music can introduce people to belly dance and also break down cultural barriers.

My main concerns with Zumba are: very high impact, instructors are not trained well (turn up, pay your money get your certification), there is no safe dance practice info in the training, it is all about the money (not why I dance or teach!)

Just my two cents and the reasons that although I am certified and I did teach for a year I have chosen to no longer teach Zumba something my chiropractor is disappointed about - he said that my vocal complaints about Zumba seem to have decreased the number of women doing Zumba in my area and that has negatively impacted on his business - Zumba increased his client load 2 fold!!! (What does that tell you)

 

[~Diana~]

I was peaved when I first took zumba and the teacher told everyone they will do bellydance movements and then started to get them all to do back-bends. However this was in a gym and they don't necessary get the same traiing as other zumba teachers.

I am taking a different zumba class from a friend who has taken official zumba classes/courses to teach. She does not say which moves are which dance style and the only bellydance moves she does really are shimmies and LOL a fun camel. Then she also pull's me out to do bellydance movements when they come up.

I wouldn't label or kill off zumba because some dance instructors don't know what the they are doing. There are a lot of zumba instructors who do have background and dance the dance styles that are incorporated into the classes. Anyway zumba is not about teaching people these dance styles. Most of the ladies in the classes I've taken are just there to have fun and move their bodies.

 

[jenc]

As I understand it - Zumba teachers do not have to learn about physiology. Certification comes from a one-day class and it is advertised as anyone can teach if they are certified.

As for bellydance. I noticed that with a level one certified teacher there were several moves that I recognised - but that after the teacher got her level 2 (which is supposed to add the "bellydance rythmn" we seemed to be doing more bollywood moves to bangra music - which she had been told was bellydance.

There is no instruction at all for technique. I do this class because it gets my heartrate up and I enjoy working out to music BUT it exercises my brain to make sure I don't hurt myself.