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  1. #21
    Member TribalDancer's Avatar
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    Heh Well considering American Tribal Style Bellydance is wher ethe word tribal came from, and that is Carolena's puview, I think she's doing just fine on the naming front. Haha! It's all the other people using the word tribal erroneously that need suggestions.

  2. #22
    Member Chani's Avatar
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    While I understand that some people aren't a fan of fustion belly dance and express that here I've never perceived this as an excusive or anti Tribal forum. I don't read here all the time. Today I am here to find out stuff about Tribal dancing. I will research elsewhere but I like the broad range of opinions and infromation I get here and also the honesty so this is my first port of call. A good way to not feel left out is to join in more.

  3. #23
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    Default every changing

    We all must know that belly dancing /tribal dance is ever changing and that all of us are always learning form each other. I am a traditonal style dancer. but, i am learning from the tribal fusion and all other styles as well. we should all keep an open mind. maybe someone should start a thread,help to teach what you know.

  4. #24
    Member PoleDanceABCs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TribalDancer View Post
    But where is the "tribal" in that?
    LOL I'm just saying to cut out the bellydance part but I'm not going to name that new genre.

  5. #25
    V.I.P. Sita's Avatar
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    Can I just use this moment to add something to the debate. For us 'oriental dancers' (for want of a better word), the issue is always one of defintion. We have no problem with any dance form - many of us even like Tribal and have favourite tribal style dancers. The thing has always been that some of us (not all) do not believe that these are 'belly dance' for a variety of reasons. This debate is not black and white each person has a slightly different position on where the bar is set, what belly dance is etc.
    I just wanted to make this clear because some of us get a little annoyed that we are seen as hating tribal full stop or not seeing it as valid dance form, which is not the case at all.

    I also understand the frustration and tension these debates have caused. I also think that posts like these: that discuss the debate rather than join in the debate (with both sides just arguing wuth each other) are a great help. Prehaps we all just need to review how these issues have been tackled before to stop people feeling they are being picked on. There is nothing wrong with writing on a post that you don't want to discuss certain areas that will lead to a 'bitchfest'. I think Amulya did it very well on a topic she posted. she set clear boundaries for the discusion from the start that way any such fiery debate can be placed as off topic - ignored or reported to moderators.

    Sita

  6. #26
    V.I.P. lizaj's Avatar
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    I'm just waiting for someone to say :
    "Some of my best friends are tribal dancers"

  7. #27
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    See? That's exactly what I meant! Even this thread turned into discussion of what is 'tribal' and 'bellydance'. LOL

    Well with that I withdraw my separate forum suggestion, and off to seek the tribal bellydance pastures elsewhere.

  8. #28
    V.I.P. khanjar's Avatar
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    Why, does it seem everytime there is a discussion involving the word bellydance or tribal, there is differences ?

    Why, cannot we just accept, whatever the genre, it is the dance that is important, and there the joy of the dancers.

    Yes, this is a bellydance forum, and as I have been informed, a part of Oriental dancer, so, that being so, I can understand the bias is towards oriental dance, but surely even in a dance alien to oriental, if parts of oriental are used in a fusion form, those that dance that dance have just as much validity when discussing what it is that they do.

    But, what it comes down to at the end of the day, is my way is right, yours is wrong. What is the aim you have to ask yourself, what do you hope to do, alienate others, or welcome them to the community with open arms. Just to understand, a tribal dancer, might not be a tribal dancer forever, their current path might not be their only path, and oriental dance might move towards that of the west, who knows, but lets not alienate others now, for they may very well be dance partners in the future.

  9. #29
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanjar View Post
    Why, does it seem everytime there is a discussion involving the word bellydance or tribal, there is differences ?
    Because every time we talk about tribal or oriental, there is someone on the far fringe of what even a liberal definition of tribal or oriental would include, who wants to argue that THEIR dance be included and recognized a something that it's not.

    No matter how much I stomp around and swish around a manton, I'm NOT doing Flamenco, and for me to argue that I am doing Flamenco is just pointless.

    Why, cannot we just accept, whatever the genre, it is the dance that is important, and there the joy of the dancers.
    Because too many people come to this forum with no actual understanding of "the dance" and when we try to educate them -- to help them appreciate and enjoy it EVEN MORE -- they think we're haters and bitches and whatever else.

    Yes, this is a bellydance forum, and as I have been informed, a part of Oriental dancer, so, that being so, I can understand the bias is towards oriental dance,
    Oriental dance IS Belly dance.
    Belly dance = Oriental dance and Tribal (ATS)

    ATS is one step removed from American Oriental, which is one step removed from ethnic Oriental dance. If one of the offshoots of ATS strays a distance from ATS, and it no longer contains any of the recognizable elements or hallmarks of "belly dance," then it is no longer recognized as belly dance, which professional dancers and entertainers understand. It's usually only the newer students who persist in calling their fusion experiments "belly dance."


    but surely even in a dance alien to oriental, if parts of oriental are used in a fusion form,
    What parts of Oriental are being used in this hypothetical fusion form? I hope you're not talking about the movement vocabulary because as every professional dancer and teacher will tell you, the "moves" don't define the dance. Our movement vocabulary is shared by many other dances including Hula and Polynesian, Salsa, and some North African dances. But Hula isn't Oriental dance, and Shikkat isn't Salsa.

    those that dance that dance have just as much validity when discussing what it is that they do.
    If you want to discuss Flamenco or Krumping, there's the "off-topic" forum for that.

    But, what it comes down to at the end of the day, is my way is right, yours is wrong.
    Sigh. A whale is not a fish. Now it looks like a big fish to me, but I know that professional biologists will say, "well it may look like a fish, but we classify a "fish" as an animal with the following characteristics, and whales don't share those same characteristics, so we call them "cetaceans" instead."

    I don't argue with the biologist because that's his area of expertise. And when I look into the characteristics of what a "fish" is, I start thinking that whales as not-fish are pretty amazing animals.

    What I also don't do is sit around arguing with biologists that they should rewrite their biology books and start calling whales fish, just because I think they look like fish and because my neighbor and cousin Fred also think they look like fish.

    and THAT is exactly what it all comes down to.


    What is the aim you have to ask yourself, what do you hope to do, alienate others, or welcome them to the community with open arms.
    We hope to educate them so they can appreciate MORE about this dance, and possibly become brilliant fusion ARTISTS who understand their medium and can take it somewhere it's never been -- NOT simply ripping off and imitating the latest fad that happens to call itself belly dance this week.

    Just to understand, a tribal dancer, might not be a tribal dancer forever,
    Yes, and as long as we keep educating people, we open up even more opportunities for a dancer who is exposed to only one teacher or one class or one style, no matter whether she's Tribal OR Oriental, or American fusion.

    their current path might not be their only path,
    Most of us here have also had dance training in another form, whether Western or Eastern, Tribal or Oriental. What we choose to focus our attention or studies on is just that -- a focus. It doesn't mean we don't enjoy dancing other styles or other forms.

    and oriental dance might move towards that of the west, who knows, but lets not alienate others now, for they may very well be dance partners in the future.
    There is no point in simply smiling and nodding and saying "oh yes, a whale is a fish -- you call it what you want. It's a free country." How does that help anybody appreciate the wonder and beauty of two totally different animals?

  10. #30
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    *sigh*

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