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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanjar View Post
    Why, does it seem everytime there is a discussion involving the word bellydance or tribal, there is differences ?

    Why, cannot we just accept, whatever the genre, it is the dance that is important, and there the joy of the dancers.

    .

    Why indeed. It never fails to amaze me how folks put emphasis where none is necessary. Talk about the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable! It does rather beat all the joy of simply dancing clean out of it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanjar View Post
    Just to understand, a tribal dancer, might not be a tribal dancer forever, their current path might not be their only path, and oriental dance might move towards that of the west, who knows, but lets not alienate others now, for they may very well be dance partners in the future.
    I should think a true dancer can do all styles of dance, or at least more than one. Which most of us do. I can do Tribal, and it's not easy. It requires lots of physical discipline and coordination and the fact that I prefer to do Oriental is neither here nor there. A lot of people think Tribal style is a cop out, that it's easy...well it ain't. When done properly, it's bloody hard.

  3. #33
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    sigh indeed.


    ETA:

    The question is why does it always come back to terminology.

    The answer is because when we study anything academically, the first thing we learn is taxonomy and the naming of parts. We have to be able to define that which we are discussing. Defining things involves putting them into little boxes of discrete content.

    There is a lot of confusion over perceived "prejudice" on this board, but all it really boils down to is having a shared language in which to discuss a subject. It is generally accepted that the term "ATS/ITS" describes a dance that includes group improvisation. If the dance being discussed does NOT include group improv, then it should not be considered ATS/ITS, and to call it so would hinder further discussion about it.

    The anatomy of the shared language, the naming of parts -- it's the first step in meaningful discourse. It's not about arguing "my way or else" -- it's about having the tools to truly discuss and analyze your subject, which is what people here want to do.
    Last edited by Aziyade; 08-20-2009 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #34
    Member TribalDancer's Avatar
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    As always, if these discussions exhaust you, or fail to educate you, challenge you, or uplift you, you don't have to read them or participate in them. I for one wax and wane. Sometimes I adore them, and sometimes I feel just so tiiiired. So when I feel the former I actively participate, and when I feel the latter, I just avoid the discussions. Simple.

    I think that education is important. I think having a common understanding, if not a shared definition, is important to the survival of our community and the dance we all profess to love.

    As an aside, Aziyade, you always have the best scientific parallels to share, and I just love them! Thanks for sharing.

  5. #35
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    One thing for sure: if a thread has 'tribal' in it is bound to end up like this one. Nice and educational for sure, but in EVERY thread same discussion? Sorry, defeats the point. For me at least. Thanks for attention, but this is exactly what i was hoping to avoid.

    Resistance is Futile.

  6. #36
    V.I.P. Ariadne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reen.Blom View Post
    One thing for sure: if a thread has 'tribal' in it is bound to end up like this one. Nice and educational for sure, but in EVERY thread same discussion? Sorry, defeats the point. For me at least.
    I am going to agree and I am not a tribal dancer nor likely will ever be one. I do find the subject interesting and get veeery tired of threads on the subject disintegrating into what is and isn't "bellydance". I have learned an awful lot on the subject but probably not what the posters intended for me to take away.

    However I have a different take on a solution than making it's own forum. With the new rule system I say the Tribal dancers should just start their threads and then anytime someone comes in and starts lecturing on the origins/definition of bellydance etc they should just be reported for going off topic and ignored. If you want to discuss what parts of tribal count as bellydance and which don't then please start your own thread on the subject instead of interrupting others. I am sure you will have plenty of people willing to hammer the subject with you.

    Seriously I would love to see more discussion of Tribal dance here. I am hoping rather then intimidation there will be those willing accept TribalDancer's support and go for it. I accept that it's not likely but I can still hope.

  7. #37
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    With the new rule system I say the Tribal dancers should just start their threads and then anytime someone comes in and starts lecturing on the origins/definition of bellydance etc they should just be reported for going off topic and ignored.
    People usually only answer questions that are asked.

    When people ask why there are differences, or what style "bellydancer" Shakira is, or why does it matter what it's called -- they're asking legitimate questions that shouldn't be ignored or brushed off. It's not some weird cabaret versus tribal prejudice. Tribal dancers themselves want delineation and boundaries so they're not advertised as strippers or misrepresented as West African dancers.

  8. #38
    V.I.P. Ariadne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziyade View Post
    People usually only answer questions that are asked.
    I have to disagree. I don't have the time to go back and count the number but there have been many a post about "Tribal isn't really bellydance you know" or "before I answer the question let me just say it's not bellydance" and so on and so forth. I am a big believer in semantics myself but if the subject isn't "is Tribal/Fusion bellydance" it's off subject. Just say what the differences is without the huge history lesson on why it doesn't count. When Alosha wrote her little vent the 3 basic answers were "I don't see the prejudice you are talking about, "don't let anyone tell you what you should do or get you down", "it doesn't count as bellydance get over it". The last was what is being objected too and yes, there is prejudice when the answers are prefixed and refocus the entire thread. Like I said, people who derail a thread from a facet of Tribal to whether it even counts should be reported for being off topic and ignored.

    "There is an elephant in that there corner."

  9. #39
    Member TribalDancer's Avatar
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    I guess I just don't see that very often. Or when I do, maybe I just ignore it for the troll behavior it is. After all, if a thread has a title that is clear it will be discussing tribal bellydance, why would someone come in and say it's not bellydance unless they wanted to stir the shite? So ignore them and move on!

  10. #40
    Administrator Salome's Avatar
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    I just dropped in here. Actually, in the first incarnation of my forum there was a main forum "Dance Styles" (as there is now) and when you went in there, there were these sub forums:

    * Turkish Oryantal
    * Lebanese Oriental
    * Egyptian Oriental
    * American Oriental
    * Tribal
    (I think there was also a subforum for folks dances)

    I never thought of it as a means of superiority/segregation - rather an organization tool where people could get into the nitty gritty of learning the unique attributes of that particular style. At the time there were plenty of folks with stuff to share and discuss regarding Egyptian, much less for American and Tribal and the other styles not so much... So when we re did the forum we just decided to go with a general "Dance Styles" section. Of course the membership has grown a great deal since then so that would probably have different results.

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