And we still wonder? video clip

[Maria_Aya]

We wonder how something such beatifull as oriental dance that we have lovele dancers from arab countries to represend it have bad reputation?
Well the majority of the dancers, the dancers that dance at medium-low thousends places are like this one, and i've seen many of them live

And we still wonder why oriental dance in arab countries is equal to prostitution????
Check this video !!!!!

Warning its adult one, so keep in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=bNWeKADkqd0

Maria Aya

 

[Dev]

Sick!!!!

:mad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=bNWeKADkqd0

Maria Aya

Maria Aya.... dont really know what to say, it looks like there are childrens in the audience. I didnot bother to check the PVC lady after 30 seconds, SICK!
I did mentioned here once that In Arab Countries (I particularly mentioned Egypt ), the dance gets ignored as one of the oldest dance form with such a cultural background. And that comments made few member a bit upset i should say, Are we ignoring the reality here? Dont know probably this kind of things are very rare in Arab Countries.

 

[Moon]

That was really horrible. I didn't even watch the entire clip. I wonder if this "lady" ever had any lessons or ever has seen herself dancing. (puke)

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Here we have a tendency to equate dancing and dancers as one in the same. In the middle east, there is nothing wrong with DANCE per say. Its the dancer that's problematic. Dancing socially is fine its seen as an expression of joy. However, dancing professionally is a problem because it requires a woman to display herself in public in a society where women are not supposed to call attention to themselves in public. This is a big problem and doing so in a revealing costume, no matter how beautiful it may be, is like throwing gasoline on a fire. Therefore any woman who does this is seen in a very bad light and is considered morally destitute.

Very few dancers actually reach the level of stardome like Dina, Lucy or Fifi Abdu. Most dancers a re very poor women who can't make a living any other way. PEople look at it the same way we look at drug dealing, a disreputable profession to make quick money by low class people.

With the exception of the five star hotels, most venues are cheap cabarets that cater to a mlostly male clientel, now a days tourists from the Persian Gulf countries. Given this context, its not surprising that many of the so-called dancers one finds are in fact prostitutes hiding behind the dance because it allows them to show themselves and get access to more customers.

This in no way should be taken to mean that the dance is about prostitution or disreputable acitivities. Think of this as gold working. The dance is gold, what you do with it depends on your intentions. If you are a true artist and craftsman, you will refine the gold and remove all the dirt and impurities from it so that you can create a master piece. If you are low skilled and just looking to make a quick buck you wont care how clean your material is. It will be full of impurities so that its true brilliance will be disfigured. And of course a low skilled craftsman will only be able to produce something that is a crude and ugly showdow of a true master piece.

The same analogy goes for the customes. A person of sophistication who knows and appreciates art will know a true masterpiece, whether or not they can afford it. In many cases, they may save their money for years to buy one piece of quality, rather than getting some cheap knock off, because they value the item. A low bred person on the other hand will take whatever they can get and not question it. they don't expect much and might not even care if the item is real gold or not.

The dancer and audience who hired her are of the second order. Their main concern is not artistic merit. They are looking for something different. The "dancer" is not an artist and doesn't care about expressing her soul, she has another objective. Do don't be surprised when you see these things. Just remember, a country is like a house and every house has a sewer, so lets go back to the parlor where the walls are clean and the floors aren't covered in sh*#

 

[Yshka]

Well said Tarik. I have seen many of these clips, and still find it revolting.. It's so sad to see someone degrading the dance in such a lowest-of-low way. The fact that we can see these things on the internet insures that just about EVERYONE could see it. People who don't know anything about our dance might think this is the real deal.

I'm truly happy to say that at least there are many wonderful, skilled dancers out there who do care for the dance and it's reputation, who will not put up with these things.. Unfortunately there;s nothing more we can do than educate, educate, educate...
It's up to us to tell the world this is not what our art is about and not have images like these take over.
(from the reactions at youtube only ONE of them was actually positive about the clip: that's one too many IMO, but at least majority there was able to see that this is not right)

I couldn't even watch the entire thing. Disgusting, revolting, gross...
Say, Maria, want to go find her and BOB her a**?

 

[Recnadocir]

Gag me with a spoon!

The only saving grace is that the video is so blurry, we can't get a clear view of all the cellulite.

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

More Than Meets The Eye

My first impression of the video was one of sadness than disgust. I wasn't paying attention so much to the dancer than I was to her surroundings. Who were those men?The audience seemed to be composed of men as well. Obviously she was an "object" ,a vehicle to carry on some purpose other showcasing Oriental Dance.
Salome posted an article regarding prostitution and Eastern block dancers. Tarik's commentery also sheds light on the dehumanizing practice of prostititution. Maybe it's my social activism showing, but do we care more about the image of the dance than we do the lives of women who are exploited? For anyone to be a whore, somebody has to be the "trick" and somebody has to be the pimp. Do we let these folks off the hook? Aren't they truly the ones demonizing the dance? It's no coincidence that Oriental dance is used as front for prostititution in Middle Eastern countries as stripping is used as front for it here in America.
I don't know what it is like to live in a destitute situation, without education and the necessary skills for survival. I'm fortunate not to live in a situation that would force me to debase myself. But I do have empathy for millions of women who simply do not have a choice in the matter.
Yasmine

 

[Gabi]

My first impression of the video was one of sadness than disgust. I wasn't paying attention so much to the dancer than I was to her surroundings. Who were those men?The audience seemed to be composed of men as well. Obviously she was an "object" ,a vehicle to carry on some purpose other showcasing Oriental Dance.
Salome posted an article regarding prostitution and Eastern block dancers. Tarik's commentery also sheds light on the dehumanizing practice of prostititution. Maybe it's my social activism showing, but do we care more about the image of the dance than we do the lives of women who are exploited? For anyone to be a whore, somebody has to be the "trick" and somebody has to be the pimp. Do we let these folks off the hook? Aren't they truly the ones demonizing the dance? It's no coincidence that Oriental dance is used as front for prostititution in Middle Eastern countries as stripping is used as front for it here in America.
I don't know what it is like to live in a destitute situation, without education and the necessary skills for survival. I'm fortunate not to live in a situation that would force me to debase myself. But I do have empathy for millions of women who simply do not have a choice in the matter.
Yasmine

Very beautifully said. I agree totally - it's a bit disingenious of us, who have privilege and don't come from necessity to holler "low class". Reminds me of the people pre French revolution who claimed that the rich were pre-ordained to be in a better position and therefore there is no need to be sympathic of those less fortunate.

 

[Freya]

Yasmine, your comment was very perceptive and I could not agree more with what you said.

Amongst other perceptive remarks you [Yasmine] said:"it's no coincidence that Oriental dance is used as front for prostititution in Middle Eastern countries as stripping is used as front for it here in America." In fact, classical ballet--which today is regarded with such reverence and viewed as an expression of "high culture"--also served as a front for prostitution in the 19th century. There is certainly more than meets the eye to Degas' paintings of ballet dancers, in which the "objectifying gaze" of the potential customer is omnipresent. A figure of a male viewer is sometimes included in the actual painting, or the notion of "spectatorship and commodification" is implied through the composition of the painting.

Think about all those little girls in tutus, with ballerina dreams, and beautiful Degas-dancers decorating their walls... little do they know of the sordid conditions Degas' young models had to suffer...I owe this insight to a a Columbia University professor, and I wish I could give you a reference to further reading. The professor's argument certainly shattered a few illusions in the lecture hall!

So yes, Yasmine, I think your question "do we care more about the image of the dance than we do the lives of women who are exploited?" is a very poignant one.

Freya



For images of Degas' dancers:
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/degas/ballet/

Notice the men/customers:
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/degas/ballet/degas.etoile.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/degas/ballet/degas.ballet-rehearsal.jpg

 

[Suhad]

I can't see it, the page just keeps saying loading with a grey screen.

Ah well. I can tell from the replies it would probably be painful to watch anyway.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

My first impression of the video was one of sadness than disgust.
<snip>
I don't know what it is like to live in a destitute situation, without education and the necessary skills for survival. I'm fortunate not to live in a situation that would force me to debase myself. But I do have empathy for millions of women who simply do not have a choice in the matter.
Yasmine

Very good point. What would make a woman in that cuklture behaqve in such a way and in public no less. No little girl wakes up one day and says "I think I wanna be a 'ho'e when I grow up"!

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Yasmine, your comment was very perceptive and I could not agree more with what you said.

Amongst other perceptive remarks you [Yasmine] said:"it's no coincidence that Oriental dance is used as front for prostititution in Middle Eastern countries as stripping is used as front for it here in America." In fact, classical ballet--which today is regarded with such reverence and viewed as an expression of "high culture"--also served as a front for prostitution in the 19th century. There is certainly more than meets the eye to Degas' paintings of ballet dancers, in which the "objectifying gaze" of the potential customer is omnipresent. A figure of a male viewer is sometimes included in the actual painting, or the notion of "spectatorship and commodification" is implied through the composition of the painting.

Think about all those little girls in tutus, with ballerina dreams, and beautiful Degas-dancers decorating their walls... little do they know of the sordid conditions Degas' young models had to suffer...I owe this insight to a a Columbia University professor, and I wish I could give you a reference to further reading. The professor's argument certainly shattered a few illusions in the lecture hall!

So yes, Yasmine, I think your question "do we care more about the image of the dance than we do the lives of women who are exploited?" is a very poignant one.

Freya

I'm so glad you mentioned this. If ballet could rise above that exploitation and filth, so can we. Unfortunately, where ever you have female performers, you will have those men who try to prey on them and objectify them. why is it so hard to see a woman as a total human being instead of an assortment of body parts? I certainly understand why so many women in the Midlle East are adopting the veil, (not the ones who are forced by their families to do it). It makes them feel safe. They want to be judged for their minds and who they are and what they can do rather than what they have.

Personally, I think that it is possible for a woman not to have to hide her beauty. I don't think this gives men an automatic right to take liberties with them. God gave women bodies, its a sad thing that so many of them are made to feel they have to hide it just to considered human. This is the real problem that Oriental dancers face today and that ballerinas faced in times past. Our time will come as well.

 

[Amulya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=bNWeKADkqd0

I have to log in to see it. Is it the flappy boob dancer? In that case I have seen it and it is disgusting.

 

[Rebecca_]

First of all, that's terrible. I really don't see how some chick humping a guy's leg can require any sort of skill at all. Dogs can do that perfectly fine.
Second of all, what is she wearing? Is that spandex? Spandex SHORTS?
Third of all, she shouldn't have even pretended to attempt to belly dance. She appeared to be trying to shimmy or do a hip circle or something. Last I checked, rotating one's crotch at an audience isn't belly dance. ug.

 

[DaVidofScandinavia]

first of all, the clip just shows that there are cheap people all over the world. If you dont want to pay for good artistry/entertainment, you get crap. Therefore; there is work for less talented dancers such as this dancer.

Second of all, what she's wearing isnt much different from what you'd see in just about any Las Vegas show/cabaret in Cairo.

There are lots of girls that make their living off of providing "cheaper" shows to the public at various functions. The prostitution assosiation with BD doesnt necessarily come from the fact that the dancer *actually* is a prostitute but from the fact that:
1) she's dressed differently from the women on the street
2) she's directly and openly flirting with the men on in presence
3) she's presenting herself in a manner that is not expected from a decent respectable woman
4) she's an entertainer, any entertainer is hired help - therefore, they're lower than everyone else on the social ladder due to the fact that they "submit" to their employers wishes until payment has been received (within the constrains of the agreed upon service to be provided).
5) she's appearing in public

From time to time I experience the social ladder playing a role in my classes as well, and at that time I always make a point of reminding my students that in spite of whatever social recognition, or lack of such, they may have in their "other" life - when on stage they are all equally half naked, equally physically mobile, equally displayed and receive equal recognition until anything different has been established through propper approach and appearance before their audiences.... until then, they're all half naked on stage while moving their body in unimaginable ways..... Not insinuating that I tell my students that they are prostitutes, I just like to put things in perspective for them if they get weird in class.

DaVid

 

[Safran]

When I tried to access the video it said that this clip has been removed by the user... But I guess spending that time on reading your thoughts instead of watching the clip is so much better...

 

[zamora]

would love to see what you are discussing, but all i get is a party with "ballroom" dancing w/ a single guy rocking out alone ??????????

 

[Outi]

The prostitution assosiation with BD doesnt necessarily come from the fact that the dancer *actually* is a prostitute but from the fact that:
1) she's dressed differently from the women on the street
2) she's directly and openly flirting with the men on in presence
3) she's presenting herself in a manner that is not expected from a decent respectable woman
4) she's an entertainer, any entertainer is hired help - therefore, they're lower than everyone else on the social ladder due to the fact that they "submit" to their employers wishes until payment has been received (within the constrains of the agreed upon service to be provided).
5) she's appearing in public
DaVid

Or, she IS a prostitue. I do agree with you David, but after actually being part of the dance industry in Egypt, I lost all the innocense. Dancing is business, money talks, and that's it.

I didn't see the clip, so my comments are not about this particular case, but just side note to David's writing.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Or, she IS a prostitue. I do agree with you David, but after actually being part of the dance industry in Egypt, I lost all the innocense. Dancing is business, money talks, and that's it.

I didn't see the clip, so my comments are not about this particular case, but just side note to David's writing.

I agree with you Outi. This is what I've been saying for years. Dancing in Egypt is first about the money, art second. That's not to say that there aren't artists there,but whatever artistic merit you see is due to the innitiative of the performer.

Most, if not all the clubs on Pyraqmid Street are only thinking about what the male tourists from the Gulf want to see, the five star hotels, what they think rich businessmen and their clients want to see.

Very few people have the vision to see that the dance has the potential to be anything more than this. It annoys me greatly to go to Cairo and see a European dance company performing at the Opera House, while Oriental Dancers can't even be shown on network television. Egyptians will create Modern Dance Companies, Ballet Companies, but never stop to consider the possibility of creating an Oriental Dance company that they could present on the Opera stage. To them, its only a cheap form of entertainment for richmen and tourist in the nightclubs.

By the way Outi, I'd be interested to know what you think about the Oriental Dance scene over here. Granted, we have our share of problems and controversy, but your presence on this form tells me you are someone who cares about the dance aqnd believes in its potential. Could you share with us your points of view?

 

[Outi]

I don't really know what to say. '
I have been dancing oriental dance since I was 15, so my dance history started long ago. I was able to do many things in Finland with great teachers and fellow dancers. We did many challenging projects, both in Finland and abroad.

I have been in Egypt almost 1,5 years now. Only thing I can say ia that I have learned a lot. The dancing here IS different. And hopefully I continue learn more... Even with all the down sides, I have enjoyed working here.

That's all I can really say. If something comes up, I will join the conversion.

Love
Outi/Donya