ASD anyone ?

[khanjar]

Following on from a discussion elsewhere on the subject of male belly dancers, the subject of autistic spectrum disorders came up in relation to males that danced this dance. Another participant in the conversation mentioned that of two male dancers they had communicated with, both seperate people said they had a bit of asperger's syndrome.

Now I immmediately found this interesting, as I am also diagnosed with a bit of AS and am in fact dyspraxic, which basically means I have a different view on the world to most, which I believe makes the desire to learn belly dance no problem to me at all, in fact my initial misgivings towards my desire were in fact the usual rubbish the macho men come out with, the same old, same old reasons, other peoples reasons. It was only when I decided to be myself I let other people's reasons go as one just has to be true to themselves.

Now the purpose of this post is to ask of the other male dancers who are lurking hereabouts if they have received a diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder, or suspect they have any of the traits.

My reason for asking, is simply to understand if the males that buck the system and go and do what many describe as a woman's dance are different from the norm or neuro typical males.

But on the subject of males that belly dance, if ASD enables me to enjoy myself, then I am glad to be different.

 

[bashta]

I have only been diagnosed with bipolar disorder - never with AS or any of the autism spectrum disorders. However, I'm gay, so I guess being different from the macho, manly stereotype kind of comes naturally.

That said, I don't consider belly dance a woman's dance, and I think people are starting to understand that. The more they see men dance the more normal it becomes, and eventually, they will realize anybody with any body can do it.

 

[Reen.Blom]

The more they see men dance the more normal it becomes, and eventually, they will realize anybody with any body can do it.

I am glad you are so optimistic. :think:

 

[bashta]

I am glad you are so optimistic. :think:

I'm in my 20s; of course I'm optimistic!

 

[Reen.Blom]

Im in my 20s too, yet Im afraid those that have prejudice will not let go of it...

 

[Pirika Repun]

Hi khanjar

I would like to know where do you get this information? Do you have any academic web site or article(s) to back up this assumption? Is this apply for all people or just for Western MALES who are NOT grow up in the culture and interested in Oriental dance? How about females? Even though Oriental dance is known as female dance in GP, not all women are interested in this art form. So, only apply for male but not female?

In Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey and many other countries where this art form originated, everybody dance this dance. Not only who have ASD. So, I assume that you are talking about in the West, but still I would like to read some article(s) back up this point.

For me, anything can't over generalize the assumption by just a few examples.

 

[khanjar]

Hi Pirika, no I do not have any websites to link to about this, for it was only something that came up in conversation regarding males that wish to bellydance, some things were mentioned, including the groupings male dancers fall into, none of which I reside in and that just caused me to wonder, wonder if indeed there might be a link, as I am always one to seek out possible reasons and origins for the things in life.

I am also referring to male dancers in the west, people generally not of the culture of the originating countries. If in a culture both genders bellydance, then that is perfectly understandable, as it is their culture, but of us in the west, bellydance is not our culture.

Perhaps it just is bellydance hit our shores and women were the first to do it, perhaps on a wave of goddess inspiration, notions of getting in touch with the inner self but now males are starting to do bellydance moreso than ever before. But of males why, given male society is not too friendly to anything that might be perceived as effeminate and with that males doing what is erroneously understood to be a woman's dance. What drives a man to go against his peers and gender education, risk ostracisation just to do bellydance ?

I know it is not a question of male sexuality , the assumption that male bellydancers are all gay, for I know they are not, I am not and the two other male bellydancers I have personally met are not either, one of them being a world class professional with over twenty years dancing experience, but there are dancers who are gay, just as there are dancers who are lesbian and everything else in between, so I know it is not because of sexuality.

So I wonder.

Myself, well, I do have a different view on the world than many of my peers, I am not at all interested in things like sport, body building and other so called manly pursuits, I am just me a self confessed oddball who does his best to dodge the little boxes we all seem to need to be put into.

Only recently I got a diagnosis of dyspraxia with a bit of aspergers syndrome, which has done well for me to make sense of my life so far and with it came my personal freedom, as the diagnosis released me from trying desperatly and often failing to fit into society resulting in life long depression and anxiety. It was explained to me that dyspraxia basically means I see life differently to the vocal majority, it is not wrong, just different, but to fit in if I wish, I have to be aware of the differences and account for them. The result is, I have gained my freedom, I have no wish to be anything different from myself, and with that I do what I wish and with that ignore the vocal manly types and learn belly dance.

So perhaps you can see what I am trying to get at with this thread, I am wondering if those males who also bellydance also have a different view on life from the so called norm, perhaps via diagnosi or other.

As to academia, well academia on the subject of bellydance is sparse as it is, let alone male bellydance, but because there is no academic study on this subject, that does not mean a non academic cannot seek for their own understanding. As it is anything academic with regards to aspies has been researched and written by aspies themselves as is common with the trait an inquiring mind and a good intellect.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

You male dancers are the trailblazers. Just think 20 years from now, being a male bellydancer will be considered normal! :clap:

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Hi Khanjar,

In my non dance life, I am a youth worker and have specific training in ASD.

I also manage a youth club night for young people with disabilities and ASD is part of that.

I think you are seeking to examine if there is a particular attraction to this dance as opposed to other dance forms for men with ASD?

Firstly, there is a significantly higher percentage of males with ASD than women worldwide and no two people with ASD are the same.

There could be a particular attraction to this dance based on a number of factors. The main one could be the fact that it is not a 'partner dance' so does not involve physical intimacy or contact. As a solo performer, you do not have to contend with the despair of left from right or dyspraxic issues.

The music can be alot more complex than Western music and this itself can be a huge draw. The shapes created by the dance itself works extremely well too.

Is this the sort of aspect of the dance you were exploring? the same would go for women, but like I stated, their is generally a much higher ratio of men to women with ASD.

 

[khanjar]

Caroline, you have got it in one,

thank You very much and there I was despairing that somehow I had got my communication on this matter wrong as a male dancer with diagnosed dyspraxia and some aspergers, the result, I see things differently from the status quo.

What has come across from the replies to the OP has saddened me as to the fact I had yet again failed to communicate or is it others fail to see my interest and there the importance of my asking.

I am aware that there are females with similar, less so and more so problems as myself, but as males are the majority with ASD differences and in this activity the males are the minority, I sought to ask if there was a reason some males are attracted, if not all to a dance often vaunted as for females only.

There is no shame in ASD diagnosis, for it all depends on how one looks at it and to me it is a gift and the diagnosis a license to be myself in whatever I do. Maybe it is the diagnosis or even other, but I feel I can and do transcend anything considered status quo that limits others. In my diagnosis I have found freedom, freedom to be me, no longer a fringe looney or oddball I always before denigrated myself to be.

That is why I cannot see any sense in male bellydance literature describing how we must perform, because if the dance is about personal artistic interpretation, there is no room for others expectations, as they, are not me.

 

[Aniseteph]

That is why I cannot see any sense in male bellydance literature describing how we must perform, because if the dance is about personal artistic interpretation, there is no room for others expectations, as they, are not me.

It is about personal artistic expression, but within the boundaries that make it belly dance IMO. I guess it depends who you allow to set those boundaries, and if you are looking for male-specific ones it's going to be a very fuzzy area indeed.

I can see several things that could drive male dancers into instruction writing mode (were you suggesting that these guys might have ASD too?). If they are a local rarity/novelty they may feel they have something important to say about picking a path through their dance community's and the GP's perceptions about their dancing; they may feel their opinions merit writing as instructions rather than the bloggy musings of another female belly dancer. They may want to reach out to other male dancers, to help provide the role models and support they felt was missing for them. And maybe to help teachers too. None of which means their opinions are necessarily worth squat.

And you are more likely to find them because you are looking! There are plenty of people telling female dancers what to do and what not to do (and very emphatically in many workshops with Egyptian teachers - "like THIS, not like this").