Cigano style?

ElizabethArena

ElizabethArena

New member
This article in Portuguese mentions a Cigano style of BD. There’s an illustration with the different styles and Cigano is there as being one of the styles influenced by the US.

www.mais-danca-do-ventre.com

A influência dos Estados Unidos e a difusão da dança do ventre - Mais Dança do Ventre

A dança do ventre espalhou-se pelo mundo, porém os estilos disseminados não foram os de origem puramente árabe, mas sim versões híbridas americanizadas.
www.mais-danca-do-ventre.com www.mais-danca-do-ventre.com

I’ve not heard of this one before. Can someone explain?
 
T

Tourbeau

Active member
If you scroll way down on the page, they explain it as "Gypsy Style," a fusion of Turkish, Spanish, and Romani elements and "largely a Hollywood creation." Google Translate says "Cigano" means "Gypsy"/"Romani" in Portugese, so that's obviously where they were going with this. I don't have an answer for the variation in their terminology, I don't believe their description is entirely accurate, and I'm not going to wade into the debate about whether the G-word is offensive or not.

I will say I think we have to be careful about being too cavalier about this. It is true that many dancers do a fusion style that fits their description, sometimes with a lot of (maybe sometimes too much) creative license. It is also true that the Roma in Turkey, Spain, and elsewhere have real traditions that they don't particularly appreciate outsiders making a careless mess of, just because it's fun to swish around in a big skirt.

I don't have much experience in these areas, beyond being able to say that what most dancers think of as the Turkish styles (Turkish belly dance, Turkish non-Romani folk dances, and Turkish-Romani dances) are not as commonly taught as the Arabic styles in the MED community, and it takes years of dedicated study to become a Flamenco artist. We should also be sensitive to the fact that the Roma are a persecuted minority in most places, and YMMV on how offensive an audience will consider "Esmeralda-face."
 
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ElizabethArena

ElizabethArena

New member
A belated thank you Tourbeau. When I scrolled down I thought that was a different article but I should have realised that Cigano meant gypsy as it’s fairly close to the Italian zingara (my second language). i have looked into it a bit and had never seen how the Romani dance. It’s quiet fascinating. There is a instructor in London who teaches Russian style. So many different styles according to country/region. I’m afraid I did lol a bit at ‘Esmeralda-face’.
There was a time, when I thought I was much better suited to Flamenco than belly dance, and was even planning to go to Spain for Flamenco school (for a short course), but I am aware that it takes years to learn.
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
One of my former students taught a flamenco class at the local rec center years ago, but it didn't catch on. I went to a class, but it became obvious within fifteen minutes that this is not a pursuit appropriate for those of us with wonky knee and hip joints.

Esmeralda face? I know who Disney cartoon Esmeralda is, but what is there about her face that is offensive?
 
Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
I had a teacher that was Romani. She had no problems with people borrowing from their dance, her pet peeve was when women would put on red dresses or skirts and claim they were dressing like a gypsy. She had this whole rant on it and how it took more then wearing red to get it right.

As an aside she did however approve of the Turkish Dancer Folkwear pattern.
www.folkwear.com

108 Turkish Dancer

Misses Extra Small to 2XL. A beautiful three-piece sewing pattern based on 18th century and early 19th-century Ottoman Empire fashions, including the flowing entari gown, fitted vest, and jacket. The Entari (or robe) features optional waist-shaping darts, plunging v-front neckline, button loop...
www.folkwear.com www.folkwear.com
 
ElizabethArena

ElizabethArena

New member
Shanazel said:
Esmeralda face? I know who Disney cartoon Esmeralda is, but what is there about her face that is offensive?
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i believe Tourbeau meant it in the sense of black face, that is appropriating the culture in a superficial, insensitive manner.

I do like this incarnation of Esmeralda by Gina Lollabrigida. They try in her dance to incorporate some flamenco, and what seems to me, medieval elements:
 
T

Tourbeau

Active member
Yes. It's not anything about Esmeralda's face. It's using the construction "_____-face" as a shorthand for perpetuating a stereotype. For many people, the name "Esmeralda" still conjures up a canned image of a hot-blooded woman in a full skirt and gathered-neck blouse, with scarves and hoop earrings, and a tambourine, which is sort of like the equivalent of blackface for the Roma.

I think the MED community has gotten more aware of the sensitivities around the Roma and the need to research what you do before you hop on a stage, which is good. I also understand the conflict between one side saying, "That 'Gypsy shtick' comes across as pretty ignorant and we shouldn't keep doing it" and the other side saying, "'Gypsy style' was never supposed to be an authentic representation of anyone's culture. It was always a very sloppy, multi-ethnic fusion, so can we treat it as a historical artifact and allow people to carefully continue doing it as a fantasy stylization as long as they make it clear they're not doing it out of laziness or malice?"
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
That was awkward in several ways. Step, fling arms, run, fling arms. Swirl, fling arms.

But didn't she have an amazing figure for that costume?
 
Greek Bonfire

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
I studied flamenco for two years. Like most dances, to get it right, it takes years to learn correctly. As far as flailing arms, there is no such thing in flamenco, but instead the arms are full of controlled energy.
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
Greek Bonfire said:
I studied flamenco for two years. Like most dances, to get it right, it takes years to learn correctly. As far as flailing arms, there is no such thing in flamenco, but instead the arms are full of controlled energy.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true. That is why Gina's arm flinging bothers me so much.
 
Greek Bonfire

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
Ariadne said:
<- Comments on people thinking wearing red was all they need to be dressed like a gypsy.

*blinks* Well… huh…
Click to expand...

After watching one minute of this, because I couldn't take anymore, this is a fusion of something but it is really nothing. Flamenco does not involve moving the hips like she does. I wonder how many were offended at the making of this picture.
 
ElizabethArena

ElizabethArena

New member
Greek Bonfire said:
After watching one minute of this, because I couldn't take anymore, this is a fusion of something but it is really nothing. Flamenco does not involve moving the hips like she does. I wonder how many were offended at the making of this picture.
Click to expand...
Lol, no one was offended at the making of this movie. No one knows how a gypsy danced in 1492 (the year in which the novel takes place). It’s not supposed to be a pure Flamenco dance obviously. Gina was not a trained dancer and I think she does a pretty good job. For cinematic purposes the red stands out and denotes passion, and the incitement of lust, passion. I like how they showed the feminine power she has over the men as she approached them and they gasp in awe.
You want to see bad Esmeralda dancing, check out Salma Hayek in the 1997 TV version -terrible.
 
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