Cultural appropriation, or plain old racism???

[Sophia Maria]

As a woman of Hispanic heritage, I don't get my tortillas burned when I see people of other races dancing Latino/Hispanic dances.

I think this is a very lovely way of summing up how I feel about this article. And yes, Randa's tone was not "counter-racist" or "reverse-racist" or any fancy sounding things like that...it's just racist.

I think my problem with her article is that she does have very legitimate things to say...it's just hidden under unpleasant things she had to say about "white" women. Those things, those generalizations, and those accusations probably vented her steam, but that kind of venting is best done to your best friend at the end of a long day, not in a public venue. I have my own particular opinions on bellydance, Middle Eastern dance, raqs sharqi, tribal, race, politics. Sometimes these opinions are very strong. I don't try to make my opinions politically correct or completely inoffensive. But I don't air everything publicly! I realize, unlike Randa, not everybody wants to hear all the emotions and reactions that I have.

That being said, I agree with this writer (THAT Article, or, Bellydance - We Need To Talk Belly dance with EmmaBelly dance with Emma) when she says:

"Sure, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but we are talking about emotive subjects (identity, history, religion, culture, oppression) and to expect everyone to couch their opinions in the dry prose of a scientific paper is unrealistic. Besides, why is it wrong to feel and express strong emotion?"

I still feel that her article should not be disregarded because of her anger. I think it's important to sit back and understand that some Arab audiences of bellydance will legitimately and understandably be annoyed by certain presentations, because some dancers really aren't knowledgeable enough. I certainly did a couple performances when I was just beginning that were not appropriate or, even though they weren't offensive, were just ignorant (in terms of lyrics, costuming choice in particular). We have to acknowledge that there are dancers around that are into it just because of the costumes and sparkly things. I certainly learned my lesson, and know that there is more to learn. If you reject completely the woman who thinks a bellydance class will make her seem more sexy to her boyfriend, you will never get the chance to educate her and teach her the other side of things.

And no, it's never okay to simply wear something because it's fun, if it's drawn from a cultural or racial stereotype. Much as I get annoyed and honestly mostly weirded out when foreigners dress up as cowboys and pretend to ride 'em cowboy, I think it's justifiable for someone to be annoyed or weirded out to see the millionth person dressed up as a pocahantas or a harem girl or a "gypsy" foreign teller, particularly if it plays up exciting, "exotic", brown sexuality. (People in general should do some research to find out what Native American attire actually was, or what harems actually were, or that the word "gypsy" to many Roma, is akin to saying "nigger". Suddenly "gypsy costume" doesn't have the same ring to it).

But--- I think Randa only scratches the surface, while pretending to have a deep understanding. She has seen these dancers that don't seem too serious and seem like they are prancing around in arab face. Has she met and had a respectful discussion with non-arab men and women that have been studying Middle Eastern dances for half of their lives, listen to Oum Kalsoum in their spare time, and legitimately just love Middle Eastern music and want to learn? If she has, clearly she has chosen to ignore them. I understand that, people do it all the time. It makes the world simpler and easier to understand if one group of people are "good" and oppressed, and one group is "bad" and oppressing. Sorry, Randa, the world is a complicated, messy heap of people who are all capable of great things and evil things.

I'm starting to get long-winded, but here's another thing that merits discussion: what is meant when we say "white"? (or "black" or "brown" or any other silly term like that). Because race is made up, in the scientific sense. It doesn't even have that much hold over appearance. There are some people who would be called "white", who have a pretty dark complexion and hair. There are people who would be called "black" who have lighter skin tones than me with my summer tan. The terms have more to do with culture...but, on the flip (and ugly) side of the coin, they are terms that are pretty much always used to distinguish between cultures in a negative way. Calling someone "white" or "black" is ignorant, and it just allows one to put someone else neatly in a category so you don't have to think too hard or empathize with them or understand their family or culture. Likewise, the term "Arab" is used pretty willy-nilly, and often you'll find that there's more of a political history behind the term than one would expect.

...sigh. It's just ignorance.

(Just realized I have Amerie playing in my playlist. Uh oh. Maybe Randa Jarrar will think I'm a racist for belting RnB in the kitchen. I should find another form of self-expression that's not appropriating "blacks". Guess I'll only listen to Bach from now on.)

 

[Darshiva]

I think you'll find it's the 'dressing up as a racial stereotype' part that most people have a problem with, period.

It's the part that I personally have a problem with (as I stated in the post above her original post).

I think that bellybabies are frequently guilty of it (I certainly was in the haram-fantasy way!) until/unless they are guided away from it by their peers or teachers. Loudly proclaiming that it's a good thing to do it is totally not cool, in my opinion.

 

[Amulya]

I wonder if she find it's bad if people in Africa do ballet, or if people in China belly dance, she only mentioned 'white' people. Wonder if she hates it when Arab people want to learn Latin dance etc. She could indeed have written about people doing poor interpretations of belly dance instead, about people prancing around in cheap Halloween costumes and getting hired as 'belly dancer', that would have made much more sense. Instead she is alienating people who she could actually share her love for dance with.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

That IS sad, and true, Amulya. She is missing out on so many opportunities to make new friends, and share in one another's cultures. Sad to say, her loss.

 

[Sophia Maria]

She could indeed have written about people doing poor interpretations of belly dance instead, about people prancing around in cheap Halloween costumes and getting hired as 'belly dancer', that would have made much more sense.

Exactly.

This is a fair argument against accusations of cultural appropriation: Be a SJ Ally, not a SJ Sally, SEPARATE BUT EQUAL, AMIRITE? Rant time! Ready? ...

 

[DancingArabian]

I think you'll find it's the 'dressing up as a racial stereotype' part that most people have a problem with, period.

I get that, I do. I don't think you're getting my POV though.

I'm saying that not all depictions of a "harem girl"/slave girl/gypsy have anything to do with Middle Eastern culture/Bellydance. Some are based off of fiction that have adopted the visual imagery, and some did adopt the style of dance but not the rest of the culture.

I'm not applauding it, I'm just pointing out that it exists and the context of it.

 

[Sophia Maria]

I get that, I do. I don't think you're getting my POV though.

I'm saying that not all depictions of a "harem girl"/slave girl/gypsy have anything to do with Middle Eastern culture/Bellydance. Some are based off of fiction that have adopted the visual imagery, and some did adopt the style of dance but not the rest of the culture.

I'm not applauding it, I'm just pointing out that it exists and the context of it.

Hmmm. It may have become popular in fiction/fantasy/science fiction contexts, but that does nothing to justify it, in my opinion. It never ceases to have historical context, despite the changes it may undergo through pop culture. The problem with harem girl / "gypsy" costumes is that they take something that has a real history and boil it down to something sexy and exotic. And again, yes, people like that. But is it OK to continue doing things based purely on the fact that they're popular? Nobody could argue that these depictions don't exist. We can still argue over whether they should be done or not, though.

 

[Amulya]

They do that with everything, the 'sexy' version of a costume, it's very annoying, because it creates stereotypes. It doesn't only happen with cultural things but also with jobs, the 'sexy nurse' costume, 'sexy policewoman' costume etc. and yes there is a belly dance version of that as well

 

[Farasha Hanem]

There's also sexy Alice In Wonderland, sexy Little Red Riding Hood, and of course, the sexy wench. Halloween has pretty much turned just about every kind of female character imaginable into something sexy (emphasis on someTHING!). xP

 

[DancingArabian]

I was actually thinking of slave Leia from Star Wars and the Gor books. I have a slave Leia costume which, yes is a modified Bellydance costume, but...it's slave Leia. I don't dance in it. It was a costume that I don't think would have been appropriate for belly dancing in but it was perfect to modify into what I wanted.

Re: the sexy costumes..
The sexy cat/kitten one was always a little creepy to me.

 

[MizzNaaa]

Okay so I've been following this thread for a while and it too me some time to try and organize my thoughts into a coherent answer.

Let me first start out by saying that yes I'm brown and yes I'm Egyptian, but that doesn't make me an authority on Egyptians, our feelings or our culture. I'm merely speaking from a personal perspective. (This is just to try and avoid getting my words used in a "Look this is an Egyptian friend of mine and her words prove I'm not racist!" type of dialogue later on)

First I want to start by addressing what I've seen recurring in any discussion of racism. I'm by no means calling out anyone, I'm just using quotes as examples - no offense meant at all.

It's not counter-racist. It's just plain racist. Counter-racist would be welcoming of all people no matter the colour of their skin. Racism is racism no matter the colour of the people being bigoted or being discriminated against on the basis of their colour (or lack thereof).

As for my personal view - she can shove that attitude right up her bigotted, narrow-minded posterior.


A quick sidetrack - who else here has their cultural heritage hidden by the immigration of family members a few generations back? As Aunt Rocky says, making assumptions makes an ass of you & me! I certainly look white, don't I?

There are privileges and there are privileges. A fair complexion may keep me from being stereotyped as a terrorist but it lets me in for automatic assumption of racism, cultural appropriation, and that my path through my culturally bereft and clueless life is strewn with flowers and my journey taken in a gilt-trimmed limousine with a convertible top and a rose-colored windshield.

Some persons with minority status expect the privilege of calling "whites" every name in the book, ignoring cultural differences, aiming unfounded accusations at individuals based on skin color alone, and going on hate-fueled rampages against other cultures while also expecting to be excused, understood, justified, and even defended for expressing views that would be called racist if expressed by someone of fair complexion.

There is not a culture in the world that is free of racism. A bit more attention to the log in the eye of one's own culture is not amiss before taking on the motes in the eyes of others.

I'm sure a lot of people read this and agree with it, but I have to step in and say; there is no such thing as counter racism from underprivileged groups onto Caucasian people. That word drives me up a wall every time because people seem to have a limited understanding of what racism is and how it works. Racism isn't about yelling racist things or saying xy person is racist cause they're xy. Racism is an institutional and organized oppression against a group of people based on their race or color or assumed race/color. Of course it's far more complicated than that, but to say that the lady who wrote that article is racist against white people does not make any sense and is just plain wrong. Her article might hurt the feelings of white people or white-passing people, and that's fine and valid but it doesn't oppress them. Whether or not her words bother Caucasian dancers, it doesn't change anything. It doesn't negate the fact that for example white people tend to have privileges all over the world that darker skinned people don't have. (and yes even in Egypt, especially in Egypt and especially when they're not from Egypt).

I hope that clears up a bit my tight-buttness over you guys using the words "She's racist" and if it doesn't then I'm very sorry but it will take forever for me to try and explain in details what I mean and I simply can't do that. Dismissing her feelings on the matter as invalid because they are aggressive is also not okay :/ she has a right to be angry over her own culture even if it hurts your feelings guys. It's not the best method to explain herself, she raises some points that I don't agree with at all, but it doesn't dismiss what she says.

Now as for the actual content of the article. Yes, there are western bellydancers who treat bellydance in a way that is neither appropriate nor respectful and do it by the assumption that it is their right to do such things (Countless belly dance instructors who talk about the goddesses insiiiiiiiiiide I'm looking at you >:c ), but that doesn't mean that everyone does that.

Orientalist views on bellydance that seem rather common in my opinion are offensive; reducing us women to a stereotype of the submissive hawt minx who says yes master and dances for the sultan is offensive, saying that non arabs are more worthy of 'owning' the dance because they kept it alive not the arabs is VERY offensive...you get the drift, there are a lot of offensive things happening in the belly dance circles. I think for me the biggest offense of all are those who dub us terrorists and have no respect for us as people and are ultimatley racist against my people and then go dance bellydance and use it as 'artistic expression'. That's not cool for me at ALL.

However she is generalizing because not ALL white bellydancers do that, I've been a part of this community for a year now? I've learned things about raks sharki that I didn't know before from you guys, and that says something cause I'm Egyptian. I thoroughly enjoy our discussions and watching your perfomrances because you are educated on the subject matter, respectful and understand the cultural undertones and RESPECT it. At least as far as I can see.

I don't agree with her idea that raks is for our people and our people alone. It's not a sacred act, we don't dance to our gods, it's a social form of expression really, something we do during celebrations and I don't think it's offensive if you (and by you I mean non arabs) to partake in it as long as it's done respectfully. To me she seems to equate it with things like wearing a sacred symbol as a fashion statement that seems to happen a lot to indigenous people in multiple nations or things like that, I don't think it's the same.

I'm very meh on the names. I'm not a fan of dancers who change their names to Arab names, that's not something I particularly find necessary and sometimes it makes me scratch my head, but eh whatever.

So this Egyptian thinks you guys should rock your bedlahs and shiny bling and heavy kohl as long as you understand the culture behind it and respect it, and remember a kitten dies horribly every time a belly dancer does the 'slave girl and sultan' BS.

 

[Darshiva]

Mizz Naaa, I disagree with you on your definition of racism, but everything else you said - spot on.

To me, racism is all about believing yourself to be superior over others based on a trait they have no control over (eg: colour of skin/hair, location they were born, etc). By that definition, the author of the article was being incredibly racist.

 

[Kashmir]

To me, racism is all about believing yourself to be superior over others based on a trait they have no control over (eg: colour of skin/hair, location they were born, etc). By that definition, the author of the article was being incredibly racist.

That is a common use of the word - but not one used in sociology or other academic disciplines which requires the concept of power and control. Just judging people on their race etc is plain old prejudice. I'm not sure if one has morphed into the other deliberately either because people want a more powerful word to hit people with or because they don't want to address the power dynamics - but it means we are a word short. If academics create another will that go the same way?

 

[Darshiva]

Probably. English is weird that way.

 

[Amulya]

I'm very meh on the names. I'm not a fan of dancers who change their names to Arab names, that's not something I particularly find necessary and sometimes it makes me scratch my head, but eh whatever.

People shouldn't feel the need to do that but the reason is marketing, no one hires a dancer named Betsy Jones etc. It's also done for privacy reasons, when people want to keep their work and life separate, sadly there are still places (in the west) where people have to do be careful. I have heard awful stories of dancers who's day job employers found out they were a belly dancer as well and it affected their job. Though I don't see the need for hobbyists/students to take a dance name.

 

[Sophia Maria]

Probably. English is weird that way.

I disagree with MizzNaaa as well on the definition of racism, but yes, this really may have to do with the usage of it. Academia aside, the way I hear it used on a daily basis is not only institutional, but also just social--i.e., judging someone based on a perceived "race".

Therefore

there is no such thing as counter racism from underprivileged groups onto Caucasian people.

I could not disagree more. I understand what you mean about institutionalized racism, but that's a certain aspect of racism. That's racism applied to institutions. Racism, plain and simple, is defined as "a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others." Yes, a country can have racist Jim Crow laws that prohibit "black" people from advancing in society, but a "black" man in this country can still be racist. He can still believe that any "white" person he may meet will be ignorant, silly, hateful, [insert any adjective here] by virtue of their skin color. This is racist.

Racism can be spread by anyone.

However, I also want to say again that I actually agree with some of the points that the original author brought up. I also agree wholeheartedly with you, MizzNaaa, when you say:

Dismissing her feelings on the matter as invalid because they are aggressive is also not okay :/

 

[DancingArabian]

Were her feelings dismissed or just recategorized? She starts off seemingly trying to take a stand on behalf of her culture, but her "points" whittle her argument down to something else entirely, making her seem arguably racist, arguably jealous and sizeist. She feels the way she feels, but the way she presented her argument came off as a slam on white women skinnier than her who bellydance, and NOT as an argument against cultural misappropriation.

Once someone's argument comes down to someone's color, or how skinny that person is, then yeah, their argument is just going to come off as childish, jealous and petty. She's angry, and those feelings are valid. However, her presentation, in my opinion, could have been done in such a way that doesn't make her look like a child pouting that she wasn't picked to be cheerleader captain.

 

[sultan]

I am one of those folks who replied in Salon. Naturally, I voiced an objection to the writer's opinion. In sum, Oriental dance is an art form - therefore, it belongs to everyone. On that basis, no one group can claim it to the exclusion of all others.

 

[Kashmir]

Oriental dance is an art form - therefore, it belongs to everyone. On that basis, no one group can claim it to the exclusion of all others.

Who decides it is "an art form"? I think this actually plays into the cultural appropriation argument - it is basically saying "we like your dance so we'll define it as 'art' then it belongs to us". I can see why people would object to that!

 

[Sophia Maria]

Who decides it is "an art form"? I think this actually plays into the cultural appropriation argument - it is basically saying "we like your dance so we'll define it as 'art' then it belongs to us". I can see why people would object to that!

I actually do agree with you. This is why this is a really messy issue. There is a difference between just raqs, and raqs sharqi, and all the others. Which gets classified as art? Interesting.