Dancing in a burlesque show

[Brea]

Hi Kharmine,

(Are you a Jimmy Buffett fan? I am...curious because of your signature). It is an old fashioned burlesque show...as far as I can tell anyhow. Here, I will post their web address and you can tell me what you all think.

Lili's Burlesque Revue: We aim to tease. Classic striptease and cabaret in downtown Minneapolis.

I am thinking of it as the type of place that's in the movie "Cabaret". As you can see, striptease IS involved...but I think it looks classy enough. They also do seem to separate 'classic striptease' from 'live dancing'. Still, I am kind of concerned...


-Brea

 

[Kharmine]

Hi Kharmine,

(Are you a Jimmy Buffett fan? I am...curious because of your signature). It is an old fashioned burlesque show...as far as I can tell anyhow. Here, I will post their web address and you can tell me what you all think.

Lili's Burlesque Revue: We aim to tease. Classic striptease and cabaret in downtown Minneapolis.

I am thinking of it as the type of place that's in the movie "Cabaret". As you can see, striptease IS involved...but I think it looks classy enough. They also do seem to separate 'classic striptease' from 'live dancing'. Still, I am kind of concerned...


-Brea

I like JB, but the quote doesn't come from any of his songs. Can't remember where I first heard it, actually!

I looked at the burlesque site and it's difficult to tell what kind of show it is. I tried to read one review and my computer promptly hung itself. "Vintage burlesque" could be highly raunchy, or it could be mildly naughty and amusing -- I can't tell here.

The movie "Cabaret" is tame by today's standards, but, remember, it had a couple of horrible racist numbers (one made fun of Jews), and the setting was not supposed to be a nightclub for high-class people. The movie" Moulin Rouge" was a distorted fantasy of what the actual nightclub was like in Paris, so I wouldn't go by that, either.

You don't say that you've ever seen one of these "Lili" shows, or if anyone you trust has seen one -- do you really want to accept a gig with a show you have no clear picture of? Does your local newspaper speak favorably about it? (Most mainstream publications will ignore "adults only" entertainment like strip clubs so if they ignore this show, it's not a good sign.)

Unless you've got a better understanding of the show, and you know how your community, in general, feels about it, you really can't make an informed decision.

IMHO, anything that boasts about its striptease, no matter how high-class it pretends to be, is not a venue for a self-respecting belly dancer who doesn't want to be stereotyped as an exotic/erotic performer.

If that doesn't bother you, go for it. Just don't expect everyone in the dance community to feel the same way.

 

[Aniseteph]

I think Kharmine's right. Why not go and check out the sort of show you're considering appearing in? A slightly cheeky family-friendly variety programme is one thing, dancing for an audience who are basically going to be disappointed if the bedlah stays on is another. And you really can't tell from that site.

 

[Shanazel]

I looked at the site, too. It struck me as sort of tacky. Burlesque can be elegant and funny, but those tassle-tittied topless dancers-sigh. I think the advice to go check it out (incognito, of course) is good.

 

[Brea]

Hi everyone,

I suppose you are right: I am imagining the 'slightly cheeky' type of variety show when I could end up experiencing something quite..different. I will go to one of the performances and see what happens. I haven't moved yet (I currently live in a city about three hours away from Minneapolis) and just thought it might be a good opportunity for me to dance as a 'real' job. We will have to see.

To Kharmine: That is one of his songs...that's where the saying comes from as far as I know:

Jimmy Buffett - What If The Hokey Pokey Is All It Really Is About? Lyrics

-Brea

 

[Azeeza]

Brea:

You know, a girl has to pay the bills and I've seen some reputable dancers in my area, who make a living from being a belly dancer, perform in some not so Middle Eastern restaurants. Think barbeque joint (although kababs are grilled over fire!) with bikers present (they are not so Middle Eastern, or are they?).

If you are paying the bills with money from the performance, I'd do it, but that's me and that's what I've observed from other professional dancers locally who need the money.

Azeeza

 

[Brea]

Hi Azeeza,

Yes, which is why I am considering it. It would be steady pay...but I don't know exactly what kind of show it would be.

-Brea

 

[Azeeza]

Hi Brea:

I'll tell you about my experience. Recently, I took a belly dance workshop and most of the dancers I knew or I'd seen them before.

The same teacher had a burlesque workshop afterwards. Some of the dancers left, but some stayed for the second workshop. I took the burlesque class because one of my friends was taking burlesque classes too. Every single student in the burlesque class was a belly dancer, though some didn't come to the first workshop.

One dancer, who was in the second class, is well respected in the dance community and she was really getting into the burlesque workshop. I'm wondering if she is considering expanding her classes by offering more than just belly dance lessons?

Something to contemplate,

Azeeza

 

[da Sage]

Lili's Burlesque Revue: We aim to tease. Classic striptease and cabaret in downtown Minneapolis.
-Brea

I don't think I've seen Lili's Burlesque, but I have seen a burlesque show which had some of the same performers (I *loved* Coco Dupree!). I think it was a predecessor of Lili's (Cirque Rouge? something like that). The setup was that all the performers were women, except for the house band, and the house boy. About half the performances were burlesque-style "sexy senarios" or stripping (usually to panties and pasties), and the other half were musicians (singers, accordian players, etc.). It was a quality show that I saw (3 times with the BF), but like I said, I'm pretty sure it was technically a different group.

I believe a local bellydancer is/was part of Lili's, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if she refused to actually bellydance there...it might not look good at her other gig with a prominent local bellydance troupe!

Dr Farrago's is quite a bit sleazier, but they had good bellydancers involved a while ago (and maybe still do). I wouldn't want to get involved with Dr Farrago's; the organizer seems to be rather indiscreet about which pictures he posts to the web.

 

[da Sage]

ps

The thing to do is to check out the show incognito. And see if you can spend time backstage before you actually perform, to get a feel for how people treat each other.

 

[Shanazel]

Brea:

You know, a girl has to pay the bills and I've seen some reputable dancers in my area, who make a living from being a belly dancer, perform in some not so Middle Eastern restaurants. Think barbeque joint (although kababs are grilled over fire!) with bikers present (they are not so Middle Eastern, or are they?)

Azeeza

Much of my dancing back-when was done in not-so-middle-eastern places with audiences largely composed of bikers, ranchers, construction and oil field workers. Mostly I had a great time- if there was one drunk riggie who wanted to hassle me, there were ten drunk cowboys who were ready to protect me. Sort of a different experience from Matam Fez in Denver (eh, Kharmine?) but still relevent from both art and bill paying points of view.

 

[belly_dancer]

Much of my dancing back-when was done in not-so-middle-eastern places with audiences largely composed of bikers, ranchers, construction and oil field workers. Mostly I had a great time- if there was one drunk riggie who wanted to hassle me, there were ten drunk cowboys who were ready to protect me. Sort of a different experience from Matam Fez in Denver (eh, Kharmine?) but still relevent from both art and bill paying points of view.

I danced for a while at what used to be a biker bar.... new owners, trying to "upscale" their image etc.... so hired us.... but still quite a few "leftovers" from the old crowd..... well one night, a young "yuppie" type (drunk of course) was hassling us a bit (more annoying if anything... not dangerous in the least, just a bit distracting!).... well one old biker dude just (rather "gently" if you can imagine!) took this lad under the armpits.... & PUT him outside.... telling him he could come back when he learned to treat ladies with respect!!!
go figure..... but I think like any "fringe" society,.,,, once they (in this case the "bikers") like you (in this case the belly dancers).. they have your back!!!

so for you BREA.... YOU have to do what YOU feel is comfortable.... in the above senario.... I KNEW this bar...., the employees, etc... & part of the reason they hired ME was cause I would be bringing in some audience....
(though above creep boy was not one of "mine"!!!!)... however... I DID NOT like the "connotation" of dancing in a "bar".... though... do not think my "reputation" was damaged in the least..... but I am already known in this town.... etc..... it sounds like you are moving to a new place???? this might be a factor too.... 1st impressions & all....
& you MUST check out one of their "burlesque" shows... before you commit!!!.... it is soooo hard for any of us to give you feed back... especially without knowing the environment/etc personally.... good luck...

oh & Shazanel.... curious by-standers want to know....what happened @Matam Fez???

 

[Shanazel]

Matam Fez is a Morroccan restaurant in Denver that Kharmine took me to in July as a wonderful treat. The place was rigged inside like a tent- no bare walls, carpets on the floor, exotic music. We sat on cushions around short tables and the waitress poured lemon water over our hands from a silver ewer before we ate. There were five courses, each more delicious than the last, and best of all, there was a belly dancer. We had a wonderful time. When she tried to get people up to dance, I told Kharmine it was our responsibility as dancers to support other dancers, and hauled her reluctant butt up off the floor, which started the shyer folks in the audience to their feet. The bellydancer leaned toward me and said, "You're a dancer, aren't you?" Well, all I'd done was stand up, and I was going to say, "No," but Kharmine blew my cover. We had so much fun- thanks again, Kharmine!!!

Very different from dancing at Little Thunder Inn in the middle of nowhere halfway between Reno Junction and Newcastle, WY! Everyone sat at scarred wooden tables drinking beer and wearing cowboy hats and baseball caps with logos like "Garrod's Construction Company" and yelling. "EEEEEE-HAWWWWW!" I had a wonderful time that night, too. One of the ranchers was about three sheets to the wind, and she followed me around the floor, slapping folks with their own hats and saying things like, "Give her a ten, you cheap SOB- don't you see how hard that girl is working?" It was one of my favorite shows and I got a ton of tips.

 

[Brea]

Hi all-

To de Sage: yes, this is the show that used to be Cirque Rouge. Still, I will watch one of their shows if I can to see what I think.

Secondly, I suppose it doesn't phase me a great deal to do something that's not considered proper (never has before, anyway) but I don't want it to be sleazy. I can tell you that the worst performance I ever had was in the Marrakesh Restaurant in Portland, OR. Less professional behavior I have never seen in all my life.

-Brea

 

[Kharmine]

Oh , that Shanazel -- ya gotta watch her, folks. A little longer and she woulda had the whole restaurant doin' the debke!

Mataam Fez didn't have enough fer shure Middle Easterners as waitstaff so we had these pretty Hispanic gals doing the fancy tricks with hot mint tea. The belly dancer's name I have yet to hunt down, but she had a very polished performance.

I do think atmosphere makes a difference -- I don't mean, necessarily, a fancy setting. More like the attitude of the management and the type of clientele. As has been pointed out, you could dance in bar full of bikers or cowboys and be treated with respect, it depends on the people involved.

The Cairo "casinos" of the early 1900s from which raqs sharqi sprang were what I would call classic cabarets -- nightclubs, really, with dinner and entertainment. It was "adult" entertainment in the old sense of being for sophisticated grown-ups of both sexes who usually dressed to the nines when attending. I've never heard that any performer did any stripping.

In the United States, this type of place was common for years (up until about the '70s) in prosperous ethnic communities, often run by immigrant Greeks and Armenians. They were called "supper clubs" in many places, and imported dancers from abroad until enough Americans learned to supply the demand.

These were the kinds of places where whole families would gather to celebrate a bar mitzvah, wedding, baptism, anniversary, etc. Again, these were not strip joints, by any means.

Belly dancers in these earlier days were so much in demand that burlesque dancers sometimes faked performances in fancy costumes (Morocco calls 'em the "Wonderful Walkers") --but I've haven't read anywhere that the reverse was true, that real belly dancers regularly turned up in burlesque shows.

My point is: There has long been a dividing line between burlesque and real Oriental-style dancing. I've been reading old magazine articles (some of them in vintage men's magazines!) from this period and it was clearly understood even then that the two should not be confused.

I've been noticing that "burlesque" today loves to recall the nostalgia of another time, but it's still about sexual titillation, first and last. How much titillation depends on the management.

But if we're serious about educating the public that belly dancing is not just another version of exotic/erotic dancing, then I think we ought to be reeeeeeealy careful about how much we get involved with this burlesque resurgence. If we're willing to blur the lines, hey, guess what, the public has long been way ahead of us!