Discussing non-english threads

[Moon]

This is an English forum... why don't you provide a translation? It's not nice to exclude people by speaking your native language on a forum where most people can't understand that.

Why???



Edited by moderator: this is moved from the arabic thread.

 

[Mya]

This is an English forum... why don't you provide a translation? It's not nice to exclude people by speaking your native language on a forum where most people can't understand that.

Why???

Moon - you haven't been here a while; there's been alot of heated discussion about this and the concensus is that there have been threads in the past that have been in other foreign languages despite the fact that they excluded persons who didn't speak them, and this one is no different.

It's up to them whether or not they choose to include a translation - sometimes they do in other threads when people politely ask them to translate for learning purposes etc.

 

[Dev]

This is an English forum... why don't you provide a translation? It's not nice to exclude people by speaking your native language on a forum where most people can't understand that.

Why???

Moon I don't see a problem if this is exclusively for Arabic speakers, in the past we had Spanish language thread as Mya mentioned.

Regarding translation , coppy the page URL, go to google translator, and paste the URL , change the translation option to Arabic - English, not a perfect translator, but quite handy.

Regards

 

[Moon]

I still don't agree with it at all since I'm sure there are plenty of forums in whatever language you want where you can chat, but *sigh* no more moderator powers.
And thanks for the tip Dipali.

 

[Moon]

Actually I don't think it will work with the Arabic written with latin script...
Maybe we should just all start speaking our own language and totally ignore the fact this is an international forum where the perpuse is we can share information with every other member.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I find it strange that we have a forum for Middle Eastern/Oriental dance where people object to the native language of the Middle East being spoken.

It is one threads out of hundreds. Even Bhuz has threads available in Russian and other languages including Arabic.

I cant read or write in Arabic so i have to find ways of translating much of what is written here.

I am lucky to sometimes be able to ask family members, but there are also some online translations available.

I think we are lucky to have extremely articulate Arabic speakers on this forum but I have no objection to any language being opened in any thread.

 

[Moon]

I object to it because 90% of the members of this forum can't understand it and I think the purpose of a forum is that every member should be able to read and interact in every thread.

 

[kayshier]

you know what?

i honestly do not see what the big deal is. Moon are you offended? is it because you do not know what they are talking about?

you can simply ask. I am sure they will oblige and there are several translators that you can use if you want to know what they are talking about....its nothing big...as Mya and Dipali previously mentioned this sort of thing has happened here before (i am supposing with no objection)

i think it is rude to raise objections in the thread itself, actually.

 

[gisela]

Dev and me are the moderators of this section and neither of us have any objection to this thread, as there previously have been threads in dutch, spanish, french (if I remember correctly) and probably some other language. Just because the arabic thread is the only non-english thread alive right now don't mean that it shouldn't be accepted. Everyone doesn't participate in every other thread and I don't see a problem with not participating in this.
Why should there be other rules for arabic-threads than dutch or spanish???

 

[Moon]

There shouldn't. I've never been in favour of threads that exclude people. That's my big deal. There are plenty of forums in Dutch, Spanish, Arabic or whatever language where you can speak your native language as much as you like. I don't understand why you feel the need to do it in a place where 90% of the people don't know what you're talking about. This is the only forum I know where people aren't obliged to provide a translation.
Be happy you don't have a problem with it. I'm happy to stand up for my own opinion and those of other people who are annoyed by it but who don't dare to speak up anymore because apparently they got flamed for it the previous time.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Why should there be other rules for arabic-threads than dutch or spanish???

perhaps it is just that deep seated mistrust for Arabs again?

Some of the stuff on here lately is just so F'in bizarre!

People really need to examine what they are saying and doing.

The rules of this forum do not include 'must speak english and include everyone' as this in itself is exclusive and fundamentally so very wrong.

 

[Mya]

I find it strange that we have a forum for Middle Eastern/Oriental dance where people object to the native language of the Middle East being spoken.

Caro, I have no personal objection to this thread myself, but i think that those who do, have more of a problem with it from the point of view that they can't benefit from the thread in any way. From past responses it seems that some folks feel that it appears as though the Arabic speakers don't want them to participate because they don't offer a translation that would enable non-speaker's to fall in, or learn anything. For all they know this thread could be about your favourite hummus recipe and they could be missing out on that!

I think we are lucky to have extremely articulate Arabic speakers on this forum but I have no objection to any language being opened in any thread.

I agree with you here again, but maybe some people feel like having articulate Arabic speakers would be even better if they spoke to people who want to be more articulate instead of only with those who are equally articulate! Perhaps particularly since everyone who is here is here because they have some sort of interest in ME culture to begin with not being able to participate in this thread bothers them more than not being able to participate in a Spanish thread or a Dutch thread.

Just some suggestions maybe if you want to understand why some people have a problem with the thread. As far as i'm concerned though you guys can chat yourselves silly here if it makes you happy and it doesn't take anything away from anyone.

P.S. Great to have you back!

 

[Moon]

perhaps it is just that deep seated mistrust for Arabs again?

I'm not even going to comment on this. I'm done with this thread. How dare you?

 

[kayshier]

perhaps it is just that deep seated mistrust for Arabs again?

Some of the stuff on here lately is just so F'in bizarre!

People really need to examine what they are saying and doing.

The rules of this forum do not include 'must speak english and include everyone' as this in itself is exclusive and fundamentally so very wrong.

i'm wondering if that's the real issue here myself and if so why? if people are annoyed with a thread, then IGNORE it! that is also an option. why waste energy grumbling about it, making a big deal about :lol: wow...

 

[kayshier]

Caro, I have no personal objection to this thread myself, but i think that those who do, have more of a problem with it from the point of view that they can't benefit from the thread in any way. From past responses it seems that some folks feel that it appears as though the Arabic speakers don't want them to participate because they don't offer a translation that would enable non-speaker's to fall in, or learn anything. For all they know this thread could be about your favourite hummus recipe and they could be missing out on that!




I agree with you here again, but maybe some people feel like having articulate Arabic speakers would be even better if they spoke to people who want to be more articulate instead of only with those who are equally articulate! Perhaps particularly since everyone who is here is here because they have some sort of interest in ME culture to begin with not being able to participate in this thread bothers them more than not being able to participate in a Spanish thread or a Dutch thread.

Just some suggestions maybe if you want to understand why some people have a problem with the thread. As far as i'm concerned though you guys can chat yourselves silly here if it makes you happy and it doesn't take anything away from anyone.

P.S. Great to have you back!

mya its just a simple matter of asking.
i did privately and I got answers...

i think to make a big deal about it really accomplishes nothing except to create yet another mountain out of nothing.

 

[Mya]

I don't think it's so much that they're thinking that the folks in here are sitting around talking about how terrible the rest of us are or anything else that they might oppose - i just think that they have a problem with the fact that even if they were talking about dogs, that the others wouldn't be able to join them because they wouldn't know.

Not that i'm disagreeing with the fact that there are translators that could be used to understand - but what about to participate? to respond if they wanted to say how they felt about dogs too?

I'm just being the devil's advocate here - like i said before, i gots no problems with the thread!

 

[Mya]

mya its just a simple matter of asking.
i did privately and I got answers...

Well now - maybe the others will too! Things have been really weird on here for a while now; perhaps they felt that their questions would have been met with accusations of mistrust or something? I don't know - i'm just trying to understand the other side of it as well. That's at least better than going off assuming that the people on this forum are suspicious of each other - that's just gonna cause more tension and make things even weirder right? We don't need any more of that here!

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I'm not even going to comment on this. I'm done with this thread. How dare you?

here is a perfect example of English as a second language...

Perhaps and ? I carefully chose these words and symbols.

this does not mean my thoughts and questions are aimed at you or anyone in particular, but it is something which does occur all the time in the global sense.

Why do you not want to comment? I was responding to Gisela's Question

Why should there be other rules for arabic-threads than dutch or spanish???

Show me any threads which discusses displeasure at the other languages being used in the forum and i will shut my mouth and apologise.

And I do 'very dare' say it, I thought it was a well known fact that the Western world has deep rooted mistrust of all the is 'Arab'.

 

[kayshier]

Well now - maybe the others will too! Things have been really weird on here for a while now; perhaps they felt that their questions would have been met with accusations of mistrust or something? I don't know - i'm just trying to understand the other side of it as well. That's at least better than going off assuming that the people on this forum are suspicious of each other - that's just gonna cause more tension and make things even weirder right? We don't need any more of that here!

the suspicion begins when people making open public objections to a thread in another language because they don't understand what is being said...obviously the tone is accusatory, and the response will be likewise.

instead of asking privately, or finding another tactful way to learn something from the thread...
yes you are curious, yes you want to know...how do you do that? certainly not by complaining...you have to reach out and ask.

i understand the objections. It feels odd. as a matter of fact we are socialised that it is rude to speak in 'secret' in front of others, and this just seems to be an online version of that...its quite natural to feel odd or suspicous...i don't recall anywhere in the rules saying that the language of the threads must be in english.

perhaps someone could show me those rules i don't know.

the importance is really to approach it in a diplomatic way. ask a question...don't complain with a frown..what does that accomplish?

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Caro, I have no personal objection to this thread myself, but i think that those who do, have more of a problem with it from the point of view that they can't benefit from the thread in any way. From past responses it seems that some folks feel that it appears as though the Arabic speakers don't want them to participate because they don't offer a translation that would enable non-speaker's to fall in, or learn anything. For all they know this thread could be about your favourite hummus recipe and they could be missing out on that!

Yes, I do understand this.

I agree with you here again, but maybe some people feel like having articulate Arabic speakers would be even better if they spoke to people who want to be more articulate instead of only with those who are equally articulate! Perhaps particularly since everyone who is here is here because they have some sort of interest in ME culture to begin with not being able to participate in this thread bothers them more than not being able to participate in a Spanish thread or a Dutch thread.

Yes, I get this too but the people who are talking on here do participate in other discussions. It is a cery general conversation and even when translated it would be difficult to follow as some things cannot be just translated without an explanation of meaning.

A bit like when we say to a dancer brfore they go on stahe 'break a leg!'

If this was translated as Caroline afifi told X to break her leg when she said she had a performance that night :shok:

Just some suggestions maybe if you want to understand why some people have a problem with the thread. As far as i'm concerned though you guys can chat yourselves silly here if it makes you happy and it doesn't take anything away from anyone.

P.S. Great to have you back!

ha ha... I am happy you are happy to have me back!!

I think at the end of the day, there is some great conversation being missed on this thread but i also believe that it would not be happening if it was in English and much would be lost in translation.



I am