Dropping to the floor while in a backbend?

[BattyBaby]

I've seen tribal dancers seamlessly drop to the floor while in a backbend, like Rachel Brice does at about 1:13 in this video:
[video=youtube;KGsVqyIo_vs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGsVqyIo_vs[/video]

I cannot figure out the trick to this; I've attempted such a drop on a thick gymnastics mat and all it's yielded are a a couple of nasty bruises on either knee. Can somebody give me a tip or so? I can do a backbend, but I cannot drop to the floor while doing so!
Thanks so much.

 

[Daimona]

Very strong and controlled thighs as well as safety instructions from a live teacher is necessary to safely do a turkish drop.
Use good knee pads when you practice anything on your knees (you are still young, no need to ruin them quite yet).

 

[BattyBaby]

Thanks so much. I do use a very thick gymnastics mat, so I'm OK.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Strong thigh muscles, also push your pelivis as far forward as you can. You will feel the point when your body wants to slide into the move. controle your descent with your thigh muscles so that you come down gently onto your shins. Also pay attention to the position of your feet and ankles.

 

[Kashmir]

Ditto - thigh strength, control and keep your weight back so you land on your shins. (If you are getting bruises you are not in control when you reach the floor)

I would also strongly recommend you do this with a trained teacher present who knows how to do this safely. If you do gymnastics maybe you could work on this as a private class with one of the trainers.

However, if your interest is in belly dance, you could spend the time needed to do this well to actually work on belly dance movements and musicial interpretation

 

[BattyBaby]

Oh, physics. So my weight should be on the backs of my feet... This makes sense. Thank you. ^^ I have a gymnastics mat strictly for these types of things...
As is I practice about an hour a day, and the time devoted to this is about a sixth of my practice time. Since this is a movement that I very much want to learn to do; I'd rather not just give up on it immediately because it is time consuming. If I was that easily swayed, I would have no choreographies and no movement vocabulary. Please don't be sarcastic. I'm serious.

 

[BattyBaby]

Thank you! Should I be tightening my thighs?

 

[Kashmir]

As is I practice about an hour a day, and the time devoted to this is about a sixth of my practice time. Since this is a movement that I very much want to learn to do; I'd rather not just give up on it immediately because it is time consuming. If I was that easily swayed, I would have no choreographies and no movement vocabulary. Please don't be sarcastic. I'm serious.

An hour a day every day is a good amount to spend on practice. However, I'm not being sarcastic - I could spend twice that much time and still not cover basic belly dance stuff. Once you get this - yes it'll be spectactular - and you might use it for a few seconds in a couple of dances (using it in every dance will get you the One-Trick-Pony reputation - we used to take bets when a particular dancer would throw in a cartwheel and whether she's just do one or transverse the stage with them). But belly dance isn't just a series of tricks - don't sell yourself short.

That said, when I learnt a Turkish Drop (for Jazz) - ie without the backbend - we spent months on it. In any one session probably more than 10 minutes. We worked on flexibility and strength and control (and in those days without knee pads or mats!)

I'm assuming you can do a "good" backbend - that is one that takes a little from every joint rather than stressing a single joint (ie looking "broken") AND you can descend to the floor (slowly) onto your shins. If either of these are shonky, work on them independently. But I really do suggest you spend a little money and work on this with a teacher.

 

[Aniseteph]

I wonder if there isn't something to be said for learning something this technically demanding without relying on a mat. With a teacher who knows what she's doing, that would mean you REALLY get your preparation in before you go for it. With a mat but no teacher how do you (generic) know if your technique is going to let you down the first (or second or twenty second) time you do it without the safety net? From what I've heard this is not a fun thing to have go wrong.

We do a pose similar to the floor level part in yoga, and the tops of my feet do not like it at all, which is weird as I'd expect it to upset my knees and thighs. Without a teacher I would have no idea if I was doing it wrong and that was a warning note, or doing it right and just need to persevere carefully. (I wouldn't even think about the drop for myself out of respect for my poor knees )

What Kashmir says - ITA there are more profitable ways to spend time in terms of belly dance practice, but I suppose the general public love this kind of thing. Oh dear, the one-trick pony thing - I just had an idea for over-long boring shows - belly dance bingo... Write yourself a list of all the things you expect to see/hear and tick them off.

 

[BattyBaby]

Thank you for the advice! ^^
Before anybody else points this out, I am trying my best to find somebody in my area who can teach me this; it is not a matter of being a cheapskate, it's more a matter of my being fourteen and my parents being too busy to drive me to a land far, far away or some other place to learn how to do this movement. ><

 

[BeatriceC]

If you're 14 you haven't finished growing, your bones, muscles and connective tissues are not as strong as they will be when you're 20. Do you really want to mess your body up *right now* for want of a decent teacher?

 

[BattyBaby]

For the time being I'm just working on strengthening my thighs. ^^ No worries.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Hey Batty, I asked Rachel about this one once and she directed me to her (then in production but now available) "Serpentine" dvd. I have seen this and her strengthening exercises on it are SUPER! Because I have very little flexibility in my back nowadays, I try to do those exercises just to keep from tightening up.

Strong thighs yes, but Rachel will tell you strong Abs are also key. Of course Rachel is just strong all over, so it's probably a cumulative thing.

Regarding tricks -- yes, it's a trick. And yes we've all seen it because we're dancers. That doesn't mean we can't be impressed by it, when it's done well. There's a dancer in Louisville who used to do this, and I swear watching her it was like watching a "bullet time" fall in The Matrixx. She seemed to defy gravity when she did it. I never grew tired of watching her do that. Also, just because we've seen it, doesn't mean the general public audience has. If I had a nickel for every time somebody in the crowd gasped when I pulled out a sword ...

Tricks are fine. Just be sure to do them WELL!!!!! Don't perform them until you can do them effortlessly -- or at least make it look effortless

 

[BattyBaby]

Thanks!
I do actually have Rachel's "Serpentine" DVD. I love it to death so far, but as I'm choosing new courses for school at the moment, and because we've had power outages in my area, I haven't had the chance to work through the entire video. I will probably finish up this weekend.

 

[Maghreb]

FCBD Tribal Basics Vol 8 teaches this move and other ATS floorwork. Definitely work checking out if you can.

 

[BattyBaby]

Oh yay! As soon as I finish working through all the Zoe Jakes dvds I went off and bought... Never enough ATS floorwork!
Thank you all for helping me. I have gotten help from my teacher and am now capable of doing the drop smoothly and precisely without hurting myself.

 

[shiradotnet]

Are you planning to end your drop in a backbend position? Ie, kneeling with your shoulders back near the floor? If so, one thing to work on is to reach the point of being able to do a kneeling backbend effortlessly. This means developing the strength to go down in a controlled way, and the flexibility to hold the position once you're in it. Suggestions on exercises to help you develop those skills can be found on my web site at this link: http://shira.net/technique/backbend.htm

Here's a caution to consider: The Turkish drops are not a particularly safe move to do. A bad landing could break a kneecap (or other bone), dislocate a knee, tear ligaments/tendons, etc.

Now, I was fully aware of that, and I decided to go ahead and learn/perform Turkish drops anyway. I performed them successfully for about 3-4 years, and they were always an audience pleaser. However... after 3-4 years of doing them successfully, I had one go bad. Both of my kneecaps were pulled off center. OUCH! They stayed that way several years - several years of pain going up stairs, walking up hills, etc. I had to stop doing belly dance floor work because of the stress it put on my knees, and I was very limited in which yoga poses I could do in yoga classes. Eventually, a combination of rolfing and myofascial release spread over several weeks restored my kneecaps to their proper position. It cost me nearly $1,000, because my insurance wouldn't pay for massage (rolfing/myofascial), and the treatment itself was painful.

So, even though the move looks really cool, and it's really tempting to learn it, I feel the need to point out that the risk is very real. It's a fabulous show-off move, but it really could cause you several years of pain, possibly even cripple you for life. I know, because it happened to me.

 

[Shanazel]

Listen to Shira.

All it takes is one off-balance moment and a dancer could be done for good. :naghty:

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Shira and Shanazel are giving sound advice. Even though you're very young and strong now, it is all too easy to have a mishap. Your body is still growing and developing---some young people don't stop growing until their early 20's.

It's bad enough to permanently injure yourself due to things such as work, as in the case of my 27-year-old daughter who has ruined her back and shoulder due to working as a CNA since she was 20. It's another thing entirely to permanently damage yourself just because you want a "stunning" move in your dance repertoire.

 

[BattyBaby]

No worries! I've sorted it out with my teacher; I can do the drop safely now.