Egyptian / Middle Eastern hand gestures

[Sophia Maria]

Does anyone know specific Egyptian hand gestures? I've been trying to look them up but I can't seem to find much. I know that "wait, calm down" is palm facing yourself, fingers to thumb, arm moves gently up and down. Which is funny to me because I'm of Italian descent and that doesn't mean the same thing to us! I know putting your palm(s) out like "high five" is considered rude, as is pointing with the index finger, and that beckoning is done with all the fingers, not the index alone. I can find a lot of resources telling what not to do, like avoiding eye contact, showing feet, and giving a crushing handshake. But what I would really love is something showing everyday hand gestures that Egyptians do do.

I think one of the things I love most about watching Egyptian dancers is you can tell they really deeply understand the music, and that shows in very subtle ways. I'm pretty sure that Egyptian bellydancing is not supposed to involve much hand motion, but even still they'll do a little hand motion if it is really appropriate with the lyrics and they're telling a story, and I'd love to really understand those little moments and try to emulate that even a bit.

 

[shiradotnet]

Leyla Lanty covers a few of them in her instructional DVD "Habibi, You Are My What?"

Here's a link to my review of the video: Belly Dance Instructional Video Review: Habibi, You Are My WHAT?, by Leyla Lanty

 

[Sophia Maria]

Thank you, Shira, I will definitely put that on my wish list!

 

[LaurenRaqs]

That one's on my wish list, too. I would *really* love a video or workshop (or even a webpage!) specifically about gestures that are commonly used in dance!

 

[Ariadne]

It is a rather large hole that almost no one mentions. I pretty much have given up on finding anything other then western dance arm positions on the net. The best I've found is videos on youtube that I just try and watch closely but that doesn't tell my what they mean or why they're used at some times and not others.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Just something to consider. If your audience is not Egyptian its going to go right over their heads. The best way to learn these things is cultural immersion, but Layla's video seems like it offers a window for further exploration on your own.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

When belly dancing to an Egyptian audience, do you have to wear shoes and avoid eye contact with said audience? :think:

 

[Sophia Maria]

When belly dancing to an Egyptian audience, do you have to wear shoes and avoid eye contact with said audience? :think:

I'm sure you don't. I just meant incorporating general body language and gestures into dance, because people just move differently in different cultures. It's fascinating to me.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

I know what you mean. I'm dying to learn Bollywood as well as classical Egyptian, and recently bought an instructional DVD that not only teaches some basic Bollywood steps, but different gestures used in Bollywood movies, too. It would be nice for someone to do that for Egyptian dance, too!

 

[Ariadne]

...because people just move differently in different cultures. It's fascinating to me.

Exactly. It's all about the aesthetic. I want to move like a bellydancer not a modern/ballet/jazz dancer. The arms are a big part of that. It doesn't matter if the audience will know what it means it still looks different, call it demeanor, style, whatever, it still shows.

It would be nice for someone to do that for Egyptian dance, too!

To be fair there are DVD's out there on arms, the most recent is All About Arms. But since I haven't seen it I have no idea if the arm movements are Oriental or Western. I've been hesitant to purchase it without knowing.

 

[LaurenRaqs]

Just something to consider. If your audience is not Egyptian its going to go right over their heads. The best way to learn these things is cultural immersion, but Layla's video seems like it offers a window for further exploration on your own.

Yes, but most of the Arab world has grown up watching a LOT of Egyptian films on TV, haven't they? So if you're dancing for Arabs, they will most likely know the Eygptian gestures, no matter where they're from.

 

[shiradotnet]

Something to consider....

The hand gestures that people use in day-to-day conversation are typically NOT what you would see someone using as part of an Oriental dance performance. For example, Mahmoud Reda teaches that when an Egyptian woman places her right hand to her chin, she is saying, "I don't know." He sometimes uses that gesture in his choreography to correspond with something in the song lyrics. But I don't think I've ever seen a raqs sharqi dancer do that gesture - it wouldn't really fit with raqs sharqi.

I agree with Ariadne that when belly dancing, it's good to move LIKE A BELLY DANCER instead of moving like a ballet/jazz/modern dancer, and yes, arms are certainly important to that. Belly dance arms are beautiful, yet distinctly different from ballet/jazz/modern.

But learning "conversational" hand gestures won't help much with learning to move like a belly dancer. To learn belly dance arm movement, I'd recommend watching lots and lots of video featuring a variety of dancers from the Middle East to see how they use their arms, and then trying it out for yourself. Pick some combinations from the videos and try them on your own body. These could be either Turkish, Lebanese, or Egyptian, whichever style you feel drawn to. I personally like Tahia Carioca's arm movements best, but I also enjoy Samia Gamal's and Naima Akef's.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Exactly. It's all about the aesthetic. I want to move like a bellydancer not a modern/ballet/jazz dancer. The arms are a big part of that. It doesn't matter if the audience will know what it means it still looks different, call it demeanor, style, whatever, it still shows.


To be fair there are DVD's out there on arms, the most recent is All About Arms. But since I haven't seen it I have no idea if the arm movements are Oriental or Western. I've been hesitant to purchase it without knowing.

I'll see if I can get it cheap on Amazon, and if I can, I'll let you know.

 

[Sophia Maria]

Yeah, there are DVDs on arms, but it's different...because it's we're talking about body language, the most simple, basic movement. Also I checked out that DVD. It looks informative (in terms of dancing arm positions) and I've heard great things about Ruby. But I also know she's mostly influenced by Turkish style, so since I'm looking for more specifically Egyptian it might not be quite what I'm looking for.

 

[Ariadne]

I can see why. I don't know of any arms DVD's that are specifically Egyptian so I can sympathize.

I'll see if I can get it cheap on Amazon, and if I can, I'll let you know.

That would be great Farasha. Thanks!

 

[Greek Bonfire]

A couple of years ago, I was taking workshops with an Egyptian straight out of Cairo, and he told us that a lot of these restrictions have been relaxed, that if the bottom of your foot and the palm of your hand is exposed, they don't get too bothered about that anymore, especially with the sha'abi dancing now. As far as not looking at your audience, another Middle Eastern dancer friend who is in big demand in the Arab community not only does look at the audience, she also interacts with them quite a bit. However, you still have to watch that middle finger!

 

[shiradotnet]

I can see why. I don't know of any arms DVD's that are specifically Egyptian so I can sympathize.

Sahra Saeeda has one. I don't see it listed on her web site, so you might want to email her to ask about it.

There's a used copy of the VHS here: Amazon.com: Sahra's Signature Series: Volume 1- Arms and Torso (Middle Eastern Dance Instrumental Video: Sahra C. Kent: Movies & TV

 

[Sophia Maria]

A couple of years ago, I was taking workshops with an Egyptian straight out of Cairo, and he told us that a lot of these restrictions have been relaxed, that if the bottom of your foot and the palm of your hand is exposed, they don't get too bothered about that anymore, especially with the sha'abi dancing now. As far as not looking at your audience, another Middle Eastern dancer friend who is in big demand in the Arab community not only does look at the audience, she also interacts with them quite a bit. However, you still have to watch that middle finger!

Interesting. It does seem that way, when I watch Egyptian videos nowadays.

I did mention eye contact in my original post, but honestly I didn't mean it as applied to dancing. Of course one has to look at and interact with the audience! I was just trying to list off general body language that might be incorporated into dancing.

Yeah, no middle finger...and no thumbs up, is that correct? I seem to remember that does NOT mean the same thing as in the states. Also I heard that beckoning with one finger is considered suggestive.

 

[shiradotnet]

He told us that a lot of these restrictions have been relaxed, that if the bottom of your foot and the palm of your hand is exposed, they don't get too bothered about that anymore, especially with the sha'abi dancing now.

So far as I know, glimpses of palms and soles never have been a problem. Here's an article I wrote about it for my web site:

Dear Shira: Is It Insulting to Expose My Palm to the Audience?

 

[Amulya]

Does anyone know specific Egyptian hand gestures? I've been trying to look them up but I can't seem to find much. I know that "wait, calm down" is palm facing yourself, fingers to thumb, arm moves gently up and down. Which is funny to me because I'm of Italian descent and that doesn't mean the same thing to us!

Hahahah that's a very rude gesture! If I am picturing it right (although the palm would be a tiny bit more up than towards yourself) I would never use that.

Here in Melbourne you got to watch out as its so multicultural that everybody could interpret something differently. Just keep on the safe side is best