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Shanazel, you have a bright future in politics. Or the stage, either way, I salute you!
Shanazel, you have a bright future in politics. Or the stage, either way, I salute you!
Dear Tarik,
Thanks for the info on Turkey. I thought it might be about the same but I have never had a chance to talk to Turks at length, so yu have added greatly to my knowledge. BTW there is a young woman teaching on an internship at OMI in New York right now. You might have met her. her name is Jennet. Tallish blonde and about 24. She just returned from Turkey where she is studying the culture/dance in depth. Fabulous dancer and I hope you two manage to connect. I am finally getting around to studying Turkish Rom and belly dance with her and she is wonderful!
REgards,
A'isha
Dear Tarik,
I had a little bit of an epiphany this A.M.
In looking back over the many posts on this subject, I notice that most people seem to equate dance with movement more than any other element of the dance, whereas I equate the dance with its essence more than any other aspect. I understand responders to be sayaing "The movements are male and female", or "In social dancing men are belly dancing because they are doing the same movements as the women".
*I would agree, however, I personally think that the dance is a combination of a very definate movement vocabulary, as well as the emotional quality that animates it.
I also think it is important to note that once upon a not so very long time ago, the dance community for the most part was unaware of the fact that men also did these movements. They went so far as to say that it was unheard of for Middle Eastern men to move this way. At that time the focus WAS on the movements, not the essence being expressed through them. It was a great revelation and for many people, because they are unaware of the culture from whicdh the dance comes, it still is. By the way, did you like the video clip?
My understanding of the situation is that if Arab guys say they are not belly dancing, I can agree because I see that the essence and feeling of what they are doing is very different from belly dance as in what we see on the stage, via such performers as Sohair Zaki, Fif, Lucy, Randa, etc.
*Yes, I can agree. The thing is that the male theatrical expression of this vocabulary is still in its infancy. With Sharki, there was a very concious idea as to what they wanted the dance to express and how they should do it. There hasn't been the same motivation for male dancers. For this reason and because there are so few male role models, each one of us has to kind of reinvent the wheel so to speak. From costuming to presentation, we have had to take our que from our sisters and then figure out how to not loose our maleness at the same time. Some of us are able to do this better than others.
The men that I know personally do not feel that they are doing the same dance as these women, but instead see social dancing, as you have said, as something different than what is being done on stage.
*Exactly. However, I do know many guys who consider what they do belly dance. Theyt don't make a distinction, between the social dance and the stage dance. I think this is because "belly dance", is an English word which does not convey the reality of their cultural context. If they were speaking to me in Arabic, they would probably say Raks Sharki for the stage version and baladi or Shabbi for the social version. Belly dance is a blanket term and there isn't even a general consensus among us as to what it qualifies, much less the general public. Having said that however, I still do believe that part of it is that some of them want to be clear that they are not trying to emulate women, its just the way they dance.
To me, even the movements of social dancing are more beledi and shaabi in their lack of complexity in MOST cases, (though I know an Egyptian man who can rival any dancer that I have seen in this area as well!).
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Tarik,
I loved the video of the guy dancing shaabi. One thing I saw in this film and in the guys here is that they tend to hold their arms a lot higher than the women do, much of the time and that there is a sort of expansion ( Or something) in the chest while the hips stay tiny and internalized. It's a very different feel from what women do.
A'isha
I agree that as a stage presentation that Raqs Sharghi as performed by men is "in its infancy", though don't you think that men have actually been dancing belly dance as entertainers all along, just not so very publicly?
I have never had anyone from the Arab countries deny that men dance belly dance, only that it is "shameful" for them to do so, leading me to believe that men have definately been out there as paid entertainers since the beginnings of the dance! They have just not been as public about it as women.
<Snip>
I think Tito is wonderful and brave, too!!
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Tarik,
I think we are saying the same thing about men in different words. I don;t think that male entertainers took to the very public stage or so much moveis, etc, but in very private parties where they did and still do work as dancers, not just as social dancers, but as their job as entertainers. The social morality of the times might prevent anything more for them by way of dancing publicly...especially if they are working also as prostitutes.
Regards,
A'isha
I'll bring you a Starbucks, Yasmine. You can stay and fuss and feud with the grown-ups!I feel like a kid sitting on the stairs when the grown-ups are a having a fight(discussion) . I'm learning so much so don't stop or you'll make me go to bed Yasmine