Flutter

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Marisha25

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Hi Sokev! Do you mean a belly flutter? I am working on that one myself. At the moment I can do it but I can't sustain it for very long. I started by breathing in and out rapidly through my nose, moving my stomach with every breath until I could do it pretty fast. I'd love to hear more tips.
Best love,
Marisha
 

Gia al Qamar

New member
I teach a flutter in stages.
First is to locate your diapraghm...which is just under the "V" of your rib cage. Panting (especially on 'all fours') will help you locate it!
To create the 'flutter', you have to create a 'vacuum' by exhailing and then holding your breath. While holding your breath, raise your rib cage and "laugh"...a big 'belly' laugh and you'll find that you should be able to move the muscle around the upper abs.
Let me know how you make out!
Gia
 

Norma

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Yes, don't forget to hold your breath. My teacher always says to "pant like a dog" and when you have it down, close your mouth. But yeah, if you can isolate your diaphragm, that should help a lot.
 

slinks

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Wow, Gia that is the best advice I ever heard.... and it makes so much sense, an inward laugh !! lol

Will be trying that
 

Viv

New member
I learned the flutter as a by product of learning to isolate the tummy muscles for a belly roll.
My first instructor used to have us lay on the floor on our backs, lightly laying one hand on the lower abdomen, the other on the diaphragm. Then we'd practice pushing out and pulling in the diaphragm muscles with an even rythm. Then repeat using the lower abdominal muscles. This helped strengthen those muscles and our control over them. Then we'd flex and release the diaphragm then lower abdomen one after the other. By lying on our backs we didn't have to worry about posture or any other muscles.
Because I had been practicing the belly roll that way I discovered that I had developed very strong control over the diaphragm muscle and could easily do the flutter as well as hold it for a fairly long period of time. I'm pretty much only limited in my flutter by the length of time I can go without breathing...LOL!
 

Mouse

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this is all great advice & I think I may have even made a little progress by trying out all the methods - thanks!
 

Moon

New member
I tried the "rapid breathing" method, but then my breasts also start to move a little. I don't think that's supposed to be happening?
 

Shanazel

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I usually have students try the rapid breathing method first so they can figure out which muscles are invloved. Then I encourage them to isolate these muscles independent of their breathing, so they can flutter and talk at the same time- not that one needs to talk while dancing, unless one is a teacher... I do my flutters with muscle control rather than breath control because that was the way I was taught, but I reckon there's nothing wrong with using your breath as long as you don't look like you are about to hyperventilate:) .
 

Hadassah

New member
Princess Farhana taught us at a workshop to pant, just like Gia said, and also, to lay on the floor, take a book, a purse anything somewhat heavy, and put it over your diaphragm muscle.

You pant until you can knock it off, and this provides resistance to make the flutter stronger and more visible. I'm working on this. Definitely not coming easy for me...
 

Ludmilla

New member
Flutter............more --

Hi! I have a question, esp regarding remarks of Shanazel and of Gia -- These comments are wonderful and helpful, too. However, for any verbal explanation of flutter, I am not happy with what I see in the mirror, I am doing. Shanazel -- controlling flutter w/ muscles rather than breathing -- I am inclined to this way because those I have seen on excellent dancers that I consider really a great flutter are this and I can tell the dancer is almost certainly "holding breath" or stopping the air passage and creating that vaccuum.

Mine either looks as tho' I'm just raising and lowering my chest, OR it looks as though I am just doing a very shallow belly roll, and neither meets the definition of a stomach flutter at all... I have tried and tried and tried and tried. I am quite thin, though very muscular and have worked so much on this (as well as crunches, etc) and have good strong diaphragm (I think) and stomach muscles and control, but if it might be at all possible that some of you who have flutters "down" could possibly post a close up short video of what you are doing, that would be so great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (the verbal explanation helps but if I could see flutter as to someone doing this correctly and see what it is that would be the best.) I have studied Leyla in "21 Shimmies" DVD -- great vid and she is great, and great at explaining - but unfortunately, this flutter to me does not look quite as defined as I am going for-- So I thought I'd ask some of you who are very accomplished w/ this -- I'd really appreciate any feedback or any comments on this!! Thanks very much -- Ludy --

(PS I know it is irrelevant here but I also have a question as to how to hold a cane when twirling it in a Figure 8 in front of yourself. (I love this move and if I sort of grasp it so it will be secure, it looks a bit clumsy whereas holding it "gently" yet securely to twirl to my side is no problem at all as someone who knows showed me...) :confused: :eek:
 

Gia al Qamar

New member
Sounds as though you're close...
Try doing it the way I've described...by creating a vaccuum...but when your chest starts to move, REALLY raise your rib cage, as though you're doing a lift...even try arms overhead...try that and report back!
Gia
 

Desideria

New member
Hi! I have a question, esp regarding remarks of Shanazel and of Gia -- These comments are wonderful and helpful, too. However, for any verbal explanation of flutter, I am not happy with what I see in the mirror, I am doing. Shanazel -- controlling flutter w/ muscles rather than breathing -- I am inclined to this way because those I have seen on excellent dancers that I consider really a great flutter are this and I can tell the dancer is almost certainly "holding breath" or stopping the air passage and creating that vaccuum.

Mine either looks as tho' I'm just raising and lowering my chest, OR it looks as though I am just doing a very shallow belly roll, and neither meets the definition of a stomach flutter at all... I have tried and tried and tried and tried. I am quite thin, though very muscular and have worked so much on this (as well as crunches, etc) and have good strong diaphragm (I think) and stomach muscles and control, but if it might be at all possible that some of you who have flutters "down" could possibly post a close up short video of what you are doing, that would be so great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (the verbal explanation helps but if I could see flutter as to someone doing this correctly and see what it is that would be the best.) I have studied Leyla in "21 Shimmies" DVD -- great vid and she is great, and great at explaining - but unfortunately, this flutter to me does not look quite as defined as I am going for-- So I thought I'd ask some of you who are very accomplished w/ this -- I'd really appreciate any feedback or any comments on this!! Thanks very much -- Ludy --

(PS I know it is irrelevant here but I also have a question as to how to hold a cane when twirling it in a Figure 8 in front of yourself. (I love this move and if I sort of grasp it so it will be secure, it looks a bit clumsy whereas holding it "gently" yet securely to twirl to my side is no problem at all as someone who knows showed me...) :confused: :eek:

I am trying to work on flutters and belly rolls myself. Best thin to do is watch and practice. Here is a video clip of a ME dancer from oregon she is very good. She does a little stomach moves here.Hope this helps a bit.

( sorry its not the right subject for this) but Gia maybe we can get you out to CT for a workshop. Im from NYc/Nj but in CT now we are lacking in teachers in traditional Rag Shaki
 

Ludmilla

New member
Sounds as though you're close...
Try doing it the way I've described...by creating a vaccuum...but when your chest starts to move, REALLY raise your rib cage, as though you're doing a lift...even try arms overhead...try that and report back!
Gia
Thanks for your patient explanation, Gia -- When you say Really raise rib cage, do you mean as in a "chest lift", or like a big intake of breath (where the chest raises due to inhaling)? My chest has these little bump movements when I do that. (From up in my head, looking down I know this sounds crazy but it looks like a couple of side-by-side ping pong balls bouncing up and down next to eachother, under my chin) --- Sorry ! That's why I asked if there is a video of doing this correctly so I don't have to use these weird ways of asking about this -- The graceful, illusionary automatic yet flittering flutter I see others do seems nothing like what I am doing -- OR, if your chest is supposed to raise and lower like that, perhaps this is on the right track. From "up here" it just looks so different from how it looks from an audience, looking up. And in the mirror, unless I do as I mentioned, a belly roll up around my diaphragm it just does not have any sort of dramatic look at all, it just looks sort of rather than fluttering, more like muscles oozing around but not that staccatto lovely more defined look I am after. Hey, I think I'm starting to get it.................Gia -- Thanks so much! This is so much better than only the 'trial and error' method I hav3e been going by...............But, if you have any other suggestions, I'd really like to hear more. I am not yet at that "aha" point -- Best regards, Ludy --

Desideria - Thanks for your feedback! -- the video clip -- could you please check if it was attached to your comment? - did not see -- That would be fantastic - Much success w/ yours, too -- Ludy -
 

Ludmilla

New member
Gia - I think I see what you mean ---- Is it, to REALLY lift your rib cage out of the mix, in order to isolate the diaphragm movement from the rib cage? (In other words lifting rib cage really high, out of the flutter movement -- not as part of the movement, but to isolate that move completely, from the ribcage? So does that mean I need to work hard to keep the ribcage itself as still as possible (therefore keeping it lifted, away from the diaphragam)while the diaphragam contract/release is happening? (Oh if this is right I do hope I am finally catching on.....) Ludy--
 

Gia al Qamar

New member
( sorry its not the right subject for this) but Gia maybe we can get you out to CT for a workshop. Im from NYc/Nj but in CT now we are lacking in teachers in traditional Rag Shaki
PM me or email me (email's on my website...link below...and we'll 'tawk'!
Gia
 
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