Generally, how long before I should do Tribal Fusion?

[Bellydance Oz]

Wow!That youtube video is awesome!

It looks just like Tribal Fusion, doesn't it! ''Baladi'', is it?

Yes you are confused, because Baladi is actually the MOST authentically Egyptian belly dance you can find. It's the source of all the rest.

I think where you're confused is that the belly dance inyour video is more widespread in the West. For one thing, belly dancers work in restaurants, and restaurant audiences (outside Egypt) don't want to see Baladi - they want to see an exciting show that moves across the floor. For another, mastering Baladi is more challenging than learning the other aspects of bd - and since many bd students are just learning for fun, some teachers stick to the easier aspects of the dance.

I must say it does always sadden me to see classes moving on to learning veil and sword and Isis Wings and fan veils in Beyond Beginners when they still barely know what they're doing with their muscles, but I guess teachers have to do what they need to make a crust!

 

[Farasha Hanem]

OHMYGOSH I fell asleep with my phone in my hand, on YouTube!!! @______@;;;

http://youtu.be/yV7xCIFt3Xw

This is a video, by Tarik Sultan, showing children doing Raqs Sharqui.

Here is another video taken by Tarik:

http://youtu.be/EEamI4DKx_Q

And here's my fave video of Tarik himself, doing an off-the-cuff improv cane dance:

http://youtu.be/dHHa5RRByhk

The joy is infectious!

 

[Daimona]

For some reason, the only dancers I like are Tribal Fusion dancers. They look very strong, expressive, emotive, controlled and graceful.

This description could also fit many other dancers in various styles as well.
Just keep an open mind and explore and enjoy the world of belly dance. Noone expect you to like everything, but keep the ones you like for inspiration.

Oh man. Then Im in bad shape, because the male TF dancer that I look up to has told me that he's taken AmCab, Turkish, AND Egyptian in addition to being a TFer. Too much...

You don't have to do everything at once, just start building your basic knowledge and explore various styles while you think of it as a long term project and have fun.

Wow!That youtube video is awesome!

It looks just like Tribal Fusion, doesn't it! ''Baladi'', is it? You mentioned ''oriental''... is that the same as ''Egyptian''? And there are various styles of it?
:think:...Now I'm really confused.

You sure she isn't doing TF?

Ranya Renee IS awesome. It is as simple as that.
She has specialized in Egyptian style dances and is also teaching theatrical performance skills and techniques to belly dance performers dancers and other artists.

 

[Zumarrad]

In addition to the wonderful posts that have explained that Egyptian BD isn't about swords and compulsory veils and fire, I'd like to point out that when you look closely at that footage of Valerick doing a high energy modern Egyptian-style number, you will see that all the complex and juicy muscularity of the baladi clip you liked is STILL THERE, it's just got more elaborate footwork on it.

I'm really sad that you've been so badly misled as to what both TF and Egyptian/Middle Eastern dance actually are.

There is lots and lots of prop-centric dancing that is really superficial and not "Egyptian" in any meaningful way - there's lots of TF prop work when it comes to that - but the clip you show is pretty good from what I can see of it (my connection is bad tonight). I don't see it as skeletal or balletic at all. It's just what I call bloody hard and lovely work.

 

[Aniseteph]

I don't have anything to add to the words of wisdom here on what is and isn't Egyptian style, but wanted to send a high five to Zumarrad. I was at a hafla last night watching a TF number and the robots were farting away like there was no tomorrow. It's made my evening to know that someone else still recognises them as a thing.

 

[Zumarrad]

LOL don't get me wrong, I like a farting robot or two. It's cool music. It's just not what I want to BD to.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

o.0 W-wait, FARTING ROBOTS?!?!? @____@;;

 

[Aniseteph]

I was going to look for an original citation in a TF context for you Farasha, but Googling it just made me laugh and now I have to go to physio. It's that industrial type music with strange honking metallic sounds which probably has a genre and sub-genre all to itself for all I know.

I don't think I'd have that much of an opinion on it one way or the other if it wasn't at haflas confusing me.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

0.o ohhhhhhhhhhhh.

Thank goodness it's only music. My mind was seeing a chorus line of backup dancer robots farting! >.>;;;;;

 

[Zumarrad]

It's called dubstep.

https://youtu.be/yiNYUQXMH0A

Robot farting doesn't kick in for a minute or so. This seems to be a thing. It's like oriental music in that respect.

I'm not a connoisseur but this video (and others of people dancing to it who are not BDers) is a good example of why it goes quite well with tribal fusion.

https://youtu.be/LXO-jKksQkM

This is the fab Ebony Qualls doing her take on TF to dubstep:
https://youtu.be/cNvTm72aGcM

 

[Daimona]

:think: Speaking of robot farting, the last video reminded me that it seems like I was dabbling with tribal fusion long before I'd even heard about it as a concept. I danced freely to music I was familiar with (didn't have much ME music by then) and used moves from the belly dance vocabulary, mixing it with a bit of streetdance and electric boogie/bogaloo. Funny thing. Apart from the occasional weekend workshop touching a bit of other MENAT dances, everybody else where I live have been doing variations of Egyptian dancing ever since belly dance came to town in the early 1990ies.

 

[achilles007]

Sorry!

Sorry,all, for taking so long to respond!

Car broke down so on top of missing work and belly dance classes, I've been MIA in this very wonderful discussion. Now, I finally get the chance to catch up!:dance:

 

[achilles007]

That is the complete opposite of tribal fusion. My goodness, you have a lot to discover. Here's a link to get you started: http://www.shira.net/

I wish you joy, happiness and many many shimmies on your voyage of discovery. I think you might discover a hidden passion for the folkloric styles of bellydance. Enjoy!

Thank you. Your youtube video and your link has done wonders for giving me an appreciation for folkloric bellydance. In fact, I had no clue there was even a such thing as ''folkloric'' styles of bellydance.
The lady in it is awesome and so sensual in ways I have yet to see of Tribal Fusion dancers. I am starting to ''understand'' what is meant by subtlety in someone's movement and how powerful it really can be.

 

[achilles007]

Poor you! No wonder your head hurts: there really is a lot to learn and as Dar says, you may discover a passion for belly dance as you begin to study, if you decide to study.

To try to illustrate answers to your questions:

Is hula still hula when done wearing a tutu and using music from The Wizard of Oz? Pretty silly picture, hmm? The picture is just as silly when wearing tights and a crop top, dancing to the latest pop music, and calling it belly dance because the movements include hip drops. Belly dance is an entire package: music, costuming, movement vocabulary. Lose one, you lose the genre.


You could learn by rote to play a Mozart piano piece without knowing a damn thing about Mozart, classical music, or even pianos, for that matter. Could you play it with understanding, sympathy, and passion? I don't know how; if all you've ever listened to is Emo, that's all you're going to be able to express no matter who wrote the music.

Ah! Understood. That really is a funny image of the hula dancer wearing a tutu dancing to ''Somewhere over the Rainbow'', though. :lol:

 

[achilles007]

Let me see if I can help a little. Bellydance is so much more than just the moves---it is an expression of Middle Eastern musical culture. It is their dance, the dance of the people. In the Middle East, EVERYONE bellydances---men, women, even the children, at weddings and festivals, at parties, at any occasion that brings joy and happiness. The people of the Middle East dance to express that joy, and they let their music dictate how their bodies respond to it. This is why it's so important to study and understand the history of bellydance. For me, loving bellydance extends to loving the people of the Middle East and its culture.

What we see on the stage is the "stage version" of bellydance, which is based on their local, cultural dances, and if you think you're confused now, there are many genres of their cultural dances (not only baladi, but also khaleegy, Raqs assaya (what you know as "cane dance"), sha'abbi, Maleya leff, Haggala, and a few others I can't think of at the moment. But don't get discouraged, you don't have to learn all of these genres to do well in basic bellydance or TF. Just know that they do exist, and at least have a look at a few examples (they're fun to watch!).

Anyway, the stage, or performance, version of Raqs Sharqui usually does take up more stage space than the actual cultural dances, simply because if a dancer doesn't make use of a big stage, audiences get bored. So yes, unless it's a more intimate setting or venue such as a crowded restaurant or small stage, performance bellydance (be it Egyptian, Lebanese, Greek, Turkish, American or Western Oriental, or ATS or TF, will have more traveling steps in order to make more use of a large stage. It doesn't have anything to do with ballet influence (though there are dancers who also have backgrounds in ballet, jazz, or other forms of dance. It's not necessary to have such a background---some dancers do, some dancers don't). As for veil work, Western Oriental makes faaaar more use of the veil than classic Egyptian. In Egyptian bellydance, the veil is more for a dramatic entrance, swish it around for a minute or two, then tossing it aside and dancing the rest of the number without it. As for swords, that really isn't an Egyptian thing, either, though I think some might use sword now.

UUUUUGH, I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense and confusing you more. I know what I want to share, but it's 1;45 in the morning! @______@ If I seem to be losing focus, I'm sorry, and I hope there will be someone here that maybe can understand what my tired little retail brain is trying to say.

I wanted to post some cool vids of ordinary Egyptian folk dancing. If I can stay awake long enough, I might find one before going into a sleep coma! @_______@

Wow! So pretty much everything I was led to believe by my Tribal friend was false? Man oh man is this forum awesome. I look forward to reading more of this thread and watching your youtube videos.

PS: If the local, authentic dance is as good as what I saw of in the Baladi video, then that is actually hands-down what I prefer over the video I posted of the Egyptian restaurant bellydance with all the jazz, ballet and veil work and traveling steps.

I guess that's the reason why the Baladi video looked closer to TF than Egyptian Restaurant, because both of them take out all of the needless ''Bollywood''-like traveling movements and just do the hip-work.

Does that make sense as to why I got them aesthetically confused?

 

[achilles007]

It also doesn't help that Draconis leans strongly to the oriental side of tribal fusion. That's got to add in so much confusion here.

Draconis is lovely, btw. Thanks for sharing the link.

Now THIS is extremely interesting!!!

That is fantastic that you are able to look at a dancer and tell automatically what side they lean to.

If you don't mind me asking. What is it about what he did in the link that made you come to that conclusion?
I'm trying to see the ''oriental side'' in tribal fusion performance, but can't really link the two together visually.

Thank you for any help on this!

 

[achilles007]

Yes you are confused, because Baladi is actually the MOST authentically Egyptian belly dance you can find. It's the source of all the rest.

I think where you're confused is that the belly dance inyour video is more widespread in the West. For one thing, belly dancers work in restaurants, and restaurant audiences (outside Egypt) don't want to see Baladi - they want to see an exciting show that moves across the floor. For another, mastering Baladi is more challenging than learning the other aspects of bd - and since many bd students are just learning for fun, some teachers stick to the easier aspects of the dance.

Hmmm... interesting. What makes Baladi more challenging than the other aspects of bd? To me... it would seem like all of the inane prop-work such as sword-balancing tricks would actually take much more skill and time in mastering than the dancing. I know in my situation, it kills me having to learn veilwork and play finger cymbals rather than just concentrating on the hip-work, such as in Baladi.

Looks like TF is looking less and less like what I need, and Baladi is looking more and more like it!

I must say it does always sadden me to see classes moving on to learning veil and sword and Isis Wings and fan veils in Beyond Beginners when they still barely know what they're doing with their muscles, but I guess teachers have to do what they need to make a crust![/QUOTE]

 

[achilles007]

In addition to the wonderful posts that have explained that Egyptian BD isn't about swords and compulsory veils and fire, I'd like to point out that when you look closely at that footage of Valerick doing a high energy modern Egyptian-style number, you will see that all the complex and juicy muscularity of the baladi clip you liked is STILL THERE, it's just got more elaborate footwork on it.

I'm really sad that you've been so badly misled as to what both TF and Egyptian/Middle Eastern dance actually are.

There is lots and lots of prop-centric dancing that is really superficial and not "Egyptian" in any meaningful way - there's lots of TF prop work when it comes to that - but the clip you show is pretty good from what I can see of it (my connection is bad tonight). I don't see it as skeletal or balletic at all. It's just what I call bloody hard and lovely work.

Okay... sorry for asking this again, but can you explain what the word ''juicy'' means when it is used in belly dance? And how exactly does someone work on bringing out that juicy muscularity look in their dancing? I was told that it means the opposite of ''isolated'' movement but have no clue what that would look like.

 

[achilles007]

I saw this video clip on another forum and am deeply moved by it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnc4DapuE_4

I positively love the way he dances. Can someone tell me what style it is he is doing? Is this Baladi/Egyptian too or no? He looks very different compared to other Egyptian male dancers. I must learn his sensual style.

 

[Shanazel]

Congratulations, my dear Achilles. Your consciousness has been raised. :clap:

Tito. That man is sooooooo delicious. Egyptian. Thank you for a link I haven't visited.

One doesn't learn a sensual style; one learns to feel the sensuality of the music and to express that feeling in one's dance.