I want to commit a bellydance sin!

[Aniseteph]

There's this song in the opening credits of HBO's True Blood. It's "Bad Things" by Jace Everett. Bellydancing to it, I believe, would be sinful - BUT I SO WANT TO!!!

Oh, lovely. Now that it's off my chest, i can go back to my day job...

You are not alone - my friend did a fusion line dance/ belly dance number to this for our class.

 

[illustria]

You are not alone - my friend did a fusion line dance/ belly dance number to this for our class.

really? cool!

oh, and every time I hear Gold-digger, the Glee soundtrack version, I start bellydancing.

Actually, I start bellydancing when I hear lots of songs nowadays. Not in public, though, but if I do hear a song, i start imagining my choreo.

Must be the stress.

 

[paigan]

There's this song in the opening credits of HBO's True Blood. It's "Bad Things" by Jace Everett. Bellydancing to it, I believe, would be sinful - BUT I SO WANT TO!!!

Oh, lovely. Now that it's off my chest, i can go back to my day job...

Been there done that its a fantastic piece of music :clap:

 

[LunaXJJ]

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you here, but there is PLENTY of music and dance that don't have the 1-2-3-4 beat but instead maybe 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3-4-5, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 etc
Even in 1234 music and dance the accent can be on 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 or just on the "and". I think the finess of acknowledging the music in dance is to not just go over it like a marching band 1234, 1234 but to pick up those small differences in beat and rhythm (and melody etc of course, but this was a beat example)

Well there are tempos and accents, but I'm talking right down to the core. If you listen to any song and say out loud "1, 2, 3, 4" and it'll be consistent. It's hard to describe. It's easier to see it as a "1, 2" count.

Ok, I got it. You know how conductors and stuff wave the little stick thing (lack of better words XD) back and forth to keep the beat. Like that. Sorry I can't describe it better.

On a separate note, anyone here familiar with Cradle of Filth? I practiced to that the other day. =]

 

[Kashmir]

Well there are tempos and accents, but I'm talking right down to the core. If you listen to any song and say out loud "1, 2, 3, 4" and it'll be consistent. It's hard to describe. It's easier to see it as a "1, 2" count.

But the stress will be in a different place, if you are dancing to a 3/4 is may go 123 123 123 123. If you count 1234 over that the stress will change 1234 1234 1234. Most Middle Eastern rhythms are much more complex than this eg (from Jas):

chiftitilli (4/8)
1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-5-+-6-+-7-+-8-+-|
D---__T---__T---D---D---T---____|
D-tkt-T-tkD-T-tkD---D---Tktkt---|

karsilama (9/8)
1-+-2-+-3-+-4-+-5-|
D-__T-__D-__T-T-t-|
D-kkT-kkD-kkT-T-t-|
D-tkT-tkD-tkTkT-t-|

 

[Aniseteph]

I managed to count 1 2 3 4 over the Blue Danube, but that was counting the bars. 1-2-3, 2-2-3, 3-2-3, 4-2-3...

So if the bars are in 4's or 8's it works, kind of... but you might as well dance to a metronome if you go over the top of all the rhythms.

 

[adiemus]

...and to add to the mix, some of the dancers dance to the rhythm some of the time, then move to the melody some of the time, and may even wander between both! To try to count 4/4 timing when the rhythm is clearly not 4/4 is going to confuse the cr*p out of anyone!
Of course you'll be able to count 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 ad infinitum, but that's only marking each beat, not marking a rhythm - and I've noticed loads of songs where the beat changes from 1, 2, 3, 4 to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (or other beats) and back again as the musicians insert another melody into the original.

It is slightly different in many of the arabic pop songs I have to say - these can stick to a simple 4/4 which is the 'standard' rock beat for most popular music anyway. I can't remember when I last listened to a piece of popular music that was in 3/4! Except maybe The Pogues and Kirsty McCall's version of 'Miss Otis Regrets' on Red, Hot & Blue: A tribute to Cole Porter.

 

[Kharmine]

I love this discussion -- it brings in everything about why we love this dance, including what makes it distinct from other dance forms!

When you think about it, folks, Oriental/belly dance is already a cultural fusion. But it blends Eastern and Western culture in a way that still produces a distinctly Eastern effect.

Remember all those early film clips of Nadia Gamal, Tahia Carioca, Samia Gamal and others belly dancing to those popular Latin beats of the 1940s and '50s?

They knew they weren't doing flat-out "Oriental" dance. It was just entertainment, and lotsa fun.

Me, I love belly dancing to that vintage Dean Martin classic "Sway."

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Kharmine,

I just want to say, Egyptians can also do Salsa and other forms of dance.
What they include in their movies, is it always Egyptian? of course not.

We see an Egyptian do something and it is then Egyptian? no.

Is that the same for Americans and English etc? everything we have in our movies becomes 'ours' or a fusion of?

This is why this topic get so confused.

Samia Gamal doing Latin American is not a Fusion, it is Samia Gamal doing Latin American.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Samia Gamal doing Latin American is not a Fusion, it is Samia Gamal doing Latin American.

And really the so called "Latin" rhythms are actually Afro-Cuban, and come originally from Africa to begin with. So if you think about it, Samia's just doing African dance. (North and West).


(But my Egyptian teacher always separates North Africa from West and South Africa, culturally. She says Egypt may be IN Africa, but it's not African. I think I understand what she means. Caroline, do you agree?)

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

But why limit yourself to just "belly dancing" to a song?

Why not just DANCE to it? Why does it have to be ballet or jazz or belly dance or ballroom?

I enjoy doing Goth performances. I dance. I don't belly dance. I just dance. I don't want to be "limited" by the boundaries around the "belly dance" label. Belly dancers don't jump and leap. I might want to jump and leap, or do pirouttes and undulations at the same time.

Calling my Goth performances "belly dances" limit me on what I can do, and I don't like being limited.

But I also don't (usually) perform them at belly dance events.
I have, but I won't anymore.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

But why limit yourself to just "belly dancing" to a song?

Why not just DANCE to it? Why does it have to be ballet or jazz or belly dance or ballroom?

I enjoy doing Goth performances. I dance. I don't belly dance. I just dance. I don't want to be "limited" by the boundaries around the "belly dance" label. Belly dancers don't jump and leap. I might want to jump and leap, or do pirouttes and undulations at the same time.

Calling my Goth performances "belly dances" limit me on what I can do, and I don't like being limited.

But I also don't (usually) perform them at belly dance events.
I have, but I won't anymore.

Oh I want to snog you for writing this!!!! :lol:

and shout yes yes yes...:dance:

PS I am not allowed to rep you and have to snog a few others first.

 

[Kharmine]

Kharmine,

I just want to say, Egyptians can also do Salsa and other forms of dance.
What they include in their movies, is it always Egyptian? of course not....

Samia Gamal doing Latin American is not a Fusion, it is Samia Gamal doing Latin American.

Perhaps it depends on what you are seeing. I grew up with Latin-style dancing (my mother is Spanish and was a ballroom dance teacher), and I don't see Samia, Tahia, etc, performing Latin dances,for the most part. They are blending Oriental dance moves with some Latin moves to Latin-style music that in many cases was written and performed by ME musicians and has at least a bit of ME flavor.

To me, that's fusion.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Hi Kharmine,

I have said before, artsists play around with various flavours in both music and dance. The difference is, they are working with their own cultural references and filters in order to do this.

The Beatles did it with Indian Sitar etc. this is fine, because the Beatles did not say they were 'Indian Musicians' and then try and fuse it with Latin American.

Do you see the difference? those artists fused other cultral elements with their own.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Oh I want to snog you for writing this!!!! :lol:

and shout yes yes yes...:dance:

PS I am not allowed to rep you and have to snog a few others first.

LOL Is there a snog emoticon?

 

[Kharmine]

Hi Kharmine,

I have said before, artsists play around with various flavours in both music and dance. The difference is, they are working with their own cultural references and filters in order to do this.

The Beatles did it with Indian Sitar etc. this is fine, because the Beatles did not say they were 'Indian Musicians' and then try and fuse it with Latin American.

Do you see the difference? those artists fused other cultral elements with their own.

I'm not sure what you're saying. I always thought "fusion" was a blend of cultures or traditions, regardless of who did it. But I can see where it could mean different things to different people.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I'm not sure what you're saying. I always thought "fusion" was a blend of cultures or traditions, regardless of who did it. But I can see where it could mean different things to different people.

Hi Kharmine,

Fusion didnt mean much to me til I joined forums and now I cant escape from it! :lol:

I dont think people in Egypt think they are about to fuse something when they add a dance style from another place. They may even think they are doing that dance style and everyone else thinks it is a fusion.

I am talking about starting out with a dance from your own culture and blending something else in, being different from dancing an art from another culture then taking another dance form from yet another culture (which in many cases has never been tried before by the person) and putting them togther.

It is then totally different again to have something which is an unidentifiable dance which relates to only the person performaing it and calling it belly dance fusion.

 

[Kharmine]

Caroline, before people began calling it "fusion," I think that's what was considered the norm. Entertainers have been borrowing things they like and incorporating it into their presentations for centuries. Sometimes the novelties even become part of what is considered traditional.

However, IMHO, for a dance form to remain distinct -- it has to remain distinct. We don't see tango done today to other than music written for it, or flamenco performed while wearing garter stockings and miniskirts. Even by people of the cultures that originated those dances.

 

[adiemus]

Kharmine and Caroline - I too have to snog around a bit before I can give you both some rep - well put!

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Caroline, before people began calling it "fusion," I think that's what was considered the norm. Entertainers have been borrowing things they like and incorporating it into their presentations for centuries. Sometimes the novelties even become part of what is considered traditional.

However, IMHO, for a dance form to remain distinct -- it has to remain distinct. We don't see tango done today to other than music written for it, or flamenco performed while wearing garter stockings and miniskirts. Even by people of the cultures that originated those dances.

yes!... why dont I have one of those snog thingys?? :lol: