I would like a feedback

SephiraLamour

New member
Hello,
I am working on a dance system with fundamentals strongly in belly dance.
This is an easy prototype, where it can be seen just the "outcome" result of the principles.
Nothing too serious about the internal movements.
Can any of you give me some feedback of the visual result?

thank you very much, I will appreciate all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35khAtoovqE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apY5PUK7kqw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKrXB3436pU

First two are dedicated to Selene , the last one to Hecate.
In all performances I like to have improvisation even a little bit makes the show un re-doable!

:)
 

Darshiva

Moderator
I'm pagan and I still dont get why you're shrouded. It's not a religious thing that I'm aware of in wicca so what gives? I cant see any of your moves due to the shroud and poor lighting so I can't advise you on the physicality of your dance but I will tell you this much: if your students cant see what you're doing you'd better be really gifted at describing every nuance or they aren't going to get it.

Also, what I saw of the arms and posture and music choices it looks like gothic bellydance (specifically raqs gothique by ma'isah) so perhaps reseach that genre and make sure you aren't about to hit into her copyright.
 

Shanazel

Super Moderator
I'm not sure what kind of feedback you're looking for, Sephira, so please excuse me if I give feedback that misses the point.

You are very graceful and I'm always pleased to see people do improv.

I see no connection between these performances and Middle Eastern Dance of any genre. This is liturgical dance, and I don't see any clear vocabulary used in the performances that can be attributed to belly dance as opposed to any other kind of dance. As Darshiva noted, it has elements of Goth dance (which I also don't see as belly dance no matter how many belly buttons are revealed or how many hip circles are produced).

Is this a style you are trying to develop with an eye toward teaching or are you just seeking input for the impact of the performances?
 

SephiraLamour

New member
Hello,
thank you very much for both feedbacks. I am not wicca, but in those videos I did nothing related much on what I am trying to develop, it is more linked to astrology and sacred geometry.Anyway I don't teach this "belly dance" , so I am not concerned about that , I am concerned about the impact of the performances... this what really matters to me. Yes definatly goth dance rules here. Thank you very much again.
 

Darshiva

Moderator
Hello,
thank you very much for both feedbacks. I am not wicca, but in those videos I did nothing related much on what I am trying to develop, it is more linked to astrology and sacred geometry.Anyway I don't teach this "belly dance" , so I am not concerned about that , I am concerned about the impact of the performances... this what really matters to me. Yes definatly goth dance rules here. Thank you very much again.
So why are you appropriating sacred wicca imagery?
 

Shanazel

Super Moderator
Sephira, thank you for sharing these videos. I know that was an act of courage. Speaking as a long time dance teacher, I want to encourage you to continue to dance and just as importantly to study dance as opposed to simply moving in time to music to express yourself.

Your willingness to improvise is laudatory and your efforts toward creating personal expression through dance are commendable, but there is nothing in any of these performances to lift them out of the ordinary. Swirling dances with obscuring veils of mystery are common among dancers who (forgive me) lack any real depth of training in any particular form of dance. Your grace and desire to express yourself in dance are great starting points for a sincere study of dance but they alone don't give you the vocabulary or musicality to create something genuinely moving. Your vocabulary of movements is very small and not well practiced which is why so many of them are lacking polish (catching your foot instead of smoothly sliding it forward, entangling the veil). Just practicing each movement in your existing vocabulary until you can execute it beautifully will improve the performances.

Keep working. Study different dance forms, learn where one ends and another begins. You have made decent beginning and I hope you will enjoy the journey you've started.
 

Shanazel

Super Moderator
So why are you appropriating sacred wicca imagery?
Appropriating "sacred wicca imagery" that is in turn appropriated from something else? I don't bother to get irritated very often but this really is too much, Dar.


Wicca did not create candles, veils, pentacles, sacred geometry, astrology, calling down the moon, songs to the great goddess,
wands, athames, skyclad dancing, horned gods, or any related imagery. Wicca is not synonymous with paganism nor does it have some
moral claim to imagery and symbols used across the pagan spectrum. Sephira has as much right to incorporate these things into her
personal philosophy and art as do wicca, Asatru, kitchen witches, heathens, followers of the Great Cosmic Muffin, or plain old small p pagans like me.


I am BriarRose on http://www.thewhitegoddess.co.uk/resources/forum/default.asp?ForumID=0. If you'd like to continue the discussion, that might be a more appropriate venue and you'd be more than welcome there.
 
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Kashmir

New member
The Selene one - ok. You want feedback as an audience member? I think you need to slow down - less moves and more intent. Also consider you use of directions and space.
What is your dance background? Looks like a little belly dance to me. Not a problem, but for this maybe do a few terms of contemporary improv or similar where you get forced to look at space, direction, levels and intent.
 

Kashmir

New member
Okay - Hecate one. Other than the use of floorwork much as above.
However, if you want to create a feel for the crone I would not perform in a bra & belt! A slim fitting long dress would be much better.
And I would consider very carefully whether you want to use a photo of you on the floor with crutch to the camera!
 

Darshiva

Moderator

Appropriating "sacred wicca imagery" that is in turn appropriated from something else? I don't bother to get irritated very often but this really is too much, Dar.
Okay, so I've been really polite about this but I really hate being called Dar.

The other thing is that I am entitled to my opinion and would appreciate not being told what I can & can't find offensive. I don't go telling you to suck it up and accept raqs gothique as an evolution of bellydance that is accepted in the ME and I'd appreciate the same regarding my personal opinions.

Second, it was an actual, genuine question. The op isn't required to answer me any more than I am required to not express my own personal opinions. But I would love to know the answer or I wouldn't have asked.
 

Shanazel

Super Moderator
I am not telling you what you can and can't find offensive. I am disagreeing with your conclusions about appropriation.

I knew you were going to get pissed about this, Darshiva, and take it as a personal attack which it is not. Had I realized you disliked "Dar", I'd not have used it. All you had to do at any time during the last eight years was say, "Please don't call me that" instead of waiting to blow up at me because you dislike something else I say.
 

Ariadne

Well-known member
So your use of veil to drape it over yourself is completely counter productive. It obscures the movement of the dance and you lack the skill to make it interesting. (In the third dance I started to wonder if it was a fight between you and the veil and whether it was going to win.) Even for a skilled dancer such a move is used very briefly so as to not lose the audiences interest. If you are going to use veils, and I completely understand wishing to (veil work is a favorite of mine I don't see enough of), I recommend you study several instruction videos on the subject and practice a lot. I personally have liked the ones by Shoshanna and Aziza but there are plenty of good videos out there.

Other then that there's just this:
Your grace and desire to express yourself in dance are great starting points for a sincere study of dance but they alone don't give you the vocabulary or musicality to create something genuinely moving. Your vocabulary of movements is very small and not well practiced which is why so many of them are lacking polish (catching your foot instead of smoothly sliding it forward, entangling the veil). Just practicing each movement in your existing vocabulary until you can execute it beautifully will improve the performances.
Good advice.
 

Shanazel

Super Moderator
Veils. They look so simple and yet they can be lengths of silk chiffon Hades. I've been convinced they were out to get me ever since my first slip and fall on one. ;)
 

Zorba

Moderator
Veils. They look so simple and yet they can be lengths of silk chiffon Hades. I've been convinced they were out to get me ever since my first slip and fall on one. ;)
Oh dear...

I'm sure Shanazel already knows this QUITE well, based on her above anecdote - but since the subject arises, can I briefly segue to the very first thing I tell my students when I teach my veil workshop?

If you remember NOTHING else, remember this: When you drop or otherwise dispose of a veil, put it somewhere well away from your dance space, get the Hell away from it, and STAY the Hell away from it! If you dance too close to that veil discarded on the floor, the audience WILL stop watching your dance and watch your veil instead. I've seen it all too many times - they (the audience) instinctively know its dangerous. Unless your name is Adore', of course! ;)

Same goes for shawls, Isis wings, and even swords, canes, candelabras, snakes, old tin cans, and anything else you bring onstage with you! :lol:

This ends this public service safety reminder and brazen thread hijack.
 
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Shanazel

Super Moderator
I hadn't dropped or disposed of the damn thing at the time. It was tucked in my belt and had slithered its way out without my noticing until I stepped on it.
 

Zorba

Moderator
I hadn't dropped or disposed of the damn thing at the time. It was tucked in my belt and had slithered its way out without my noticing until I stepped on it.
That happens too! The joys of prop dancing! Between what I've done myself, seen, heard about in class, or heard about in dressing room scuttlebutt; I could write a book! Like the dancer with veil and the carnivorous ceiling fan!
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
That happens too! The joys of prop dancing! Between what I've done myself, seen, heard about in class, or heard about in dressing room scuttlebutt; I could write a book! Like the dancer with veil and the carnivorous ceiling fan!
You mean the 1001 Ways To Die episode? 8P
 

Annet99

New member
Hello. I dance as a starter in bellydance. But really I dance some years. I would like to listen to ours comments about me. What do uou think?
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
Hello. I dance as a starter in bellydance. But really I dance some years. I would like to listen to ours comments about me. What do uou think?
:shok: HAKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

*regains composure* This is a wonderful performance, I enjoyed it!
 
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