Male BD "Controversy" & meanderings about hell

[showtimememoriesdance]

Although, due to the cultural & religious views of the nations from whence the art of belly dance originated, orthodox-traditionalist views regarding the art reserve it solely for performance by women. Respectably acknowledging this fact, we should still consider 3 major arguments to controversy: A. These views were founded so long ago that many of the reasons for the views have progressed, been tempered or altered or abandoned over time. B. Male belly dancers in the US were not brought up exposed to, or minimally so, the cultures that even maintain current, fading or completely lost ideals as this, thereby having no influence on their views. C. Belly Dancing is an art form, and all art should be allowed to be experienced by whomever (regardless of gender, race or whatever) should desire it.
I happen to be a male belly dancer, and likewise a dance instructor of many forms. Check out my business site:

NOTE* Edited by Mosaic: Spammy links removed - visit Bellydance Biz sub forum if you wish to see links

 

[khanjar]

I don't believe we know enough about the cultural and religious values of people from the past to make any assumptions and what is the word in modern times is that proffered by a vocal few without supporting evidence otherwise known as hear say.

To understand, the countries where this dance originated were not always Islamic, but may have been under Islamic rule, just like some Islamic countries of today, not all of the population follow Islam, so different attitudes exist as does different attitudes and interpretations in Islam itself.

 

[Kashmir]

I'd ignored this guy as I assumed he was a spammer. But, yes, it is very likley that at least proto-belly dance pre-dated the creation of Islam. But more to the point, men in Islamic countries do belly dance - just very few do it professionally. Slightly more women do it professionally - but it is not considered good form for either sex. And, persoanlly, one of the most rabid anti-belly dancers I ever had personal contact with was a Coptic Christian!

 

[Shanazel]

Any thinking person knows that male belly dancers are the result of a union between earth women and aliens from the planet of Jupiter where all dances are done by men.

I agree with Kashmir: OP is a nice little essay written by a spammer to get attention for his website. Had he bothered to look through the forum he'd have seen versions of this discussion in other places and posted there.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

To the OP:

My dear, the only "controversy" here is the way you are trying to plug your web site in the guise of starting an "intellectual" thread. One who claims to teach bellydance should have a better working knowledge of the history of the dance, instead of posting "wishtory" from an unproven source.

 

[Zorba]

...one of the most rabid anti-belly dancers I ever had personal contact with was a Coptic Christian!

All much the same - its difficult for me to notice the minor differences between the various types of monotheists...

 

[khanjar]

I replied to the posting because it was posted on this website and on here anything posted I see as fair game to counter as left alone erroneous information can taint places like this if allowed to be left unchallenged, as unchallenged it could be seen by external viewers as de facto information and I am one for routing out the truth and squashing the fantasy with fact where it exists.

But one observation regarding religion, where religion exists and provides a strong influence on people's morals, such things as dance take a hammering, especially dances that amplify what we are as human beings over some fictional impossible conservative inhibited denial. I have but one answer to those of the religious bent, if man was made in gods image then god belly danced and got drunk and did all the things humans do. To be religious is to deny oneself the pleasure and experience of being human.

Edited to add, if it was the desire of the poster to spam this website, best it be known, I don't follow links from people I don't know, so his attempt was lost on me.

 

[Greek Bonfire]

All much the same - its difficult for me to notice the minor differences between the various types of monotheists...

Me too - and sorry to say, but a lot of people find it so easy to criticize something someone said if they are any kind of Christian but think ten times more when it's Muslim or Jewish. :naghty:

 

[Shanazel]

All much the same - its difficult for me to notice the minor differences between the various types of monotheists...

That's 'cause you never sat in the same room with a Jesus Only and a Unitarian.

 

[Zorba]

That's 'cause you never sat in the same room with a Jesus Only and a Unitarian.

Perhaps. Or the subtle differences they'd argue over would totally escape me. *shrug*

 

[Shanazel]

Subtle? Yep, you've never been there. :lol:

Me too - and sorry to say, but a lot of people find it so easy to criticize something someone said if they are any kind of Christian but think ten times more when it's Muslim or Jewish. :naghty:

I think that is because so many folks who are critical of Christianity came from Christian backgrounds themselves. I don't think much of organized religion of any type, be it Christianity or Wicca, but I can speak more authoritatively on my objections to the former.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

Sorry, I gotta get this off my chest, but I don't dare do it in Facebook because I was stupid enough to friend some of my managers:

My view on my religion is still basically the same, with one alteration: I am now convinced that if a person does not accept Christ as his Savior, he will die and go to WAL-MART!!!! And not as a customer, either!!! @______@;;;

I am now contemplating ordering a second chocolate-dipped ice cream cone for lunch. Carry on with the male controversy...

 

[Shanazel]

*snork* Wal-Mart as hell. And all this time I thought hell was located within a particular law firm. :lol:

 

[Kelmar]

Subtle? Yep, you've never been there. :lol:



I think that is because so many folks who are critical of Christianity came from Christian backgrounds themselves. I don't think much of organized religion of any type, be it Christianity or Wicca, but I can speak more authoritatively on my objections to the former.

Yea, organized religion seems to generally scare me. If you treat your fellows with decency and respect then I feel you're set for the afterlife, no matter what you believe, that's my take at any rate.

And for the record I always thought hell was working in a call center.

 

[Zorba]

If you treat your fellows with decency and respect then I feel you're set for the afterlife, no matter what you believe, that's my take at any rate.

Unacceptable reasoning. It makes entirely too much common sense!

 

[Shanazel]

My uncle belongs to a very conservative Southern Baptist church that believes leading a good (even Christian) life is not enough to keep one out of hell- one has to attend church and listen to sermons as well.

Seriously.

I once told him that Hel is the Norse goddess of the realm of the dead (also called Hel) and that "go to Hel" smply means to die.

We agreed to disagree and find other topics of conversation.

 

[Henna]

I believe everybody gets the kind of hell they believe in. That's why I prefer to imagine hell as a fun place with just a few annoying details. For example I can imagine being a part of a belly dance show with wardrobe malfunctions and stage fright attacks.

 

[Zorba]

My uncle belongs to a very conservative Southern Baptist church that believes leading a good (even Christian) life is not enough to keep one out of hell- one has to attend church and listen to sermons as well.

I grew up next door to a pack of Mormons who thought the same thing - only it wasn't enough to go to church. You had to go to "God's True Church" (tm).

They were really nice people, and I'm still in loose contact with them - but this kind of thinking is illogical, and ultimately dangerous (see our politics).

 

[Greek Bonfire]

*snork* Wal-Mart as hell. And all this time I thought hell was located within a particular law firm. :lol:

It's ANY law firm, trust me, I've been in them for most of my adult life!

 

[Shanazel]

Apparently Yame is also an inmate of a law firm; wonder if she agrees about the nature of hell. Heaven knows some attorneys can be the very devil to work for.

I'm retired, by the way, so there is no truth to the idea that hell is inescapble.