My first sexist comment
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khanjar
New member
When my dance teacher addresses the class, she says ''hey Guys'', which to me includes me, but I know women use the term as general to mean a group of people , not a gender in specific.
Interestingly though the perception that belly dance has to be sexy comes from I believe Hoochie Coochie, which was what bellydance was called when it was first displayed in the US, perhaps then to flesh starved bible bashing Americans, how this dance was performed seemed erotic to them. Now bellydance has moved on, it with many has become more respectable in the west as now it is not the sole preserve of the professional out to make a living, but it is now a hobby for amateurs. Perhaps it is the amateur that is propelling belly dance out of it's western hoochie coochie origins even. Hoochie Coochie dancing is now as ever seen as erotic dancing, but belly dance is finding it hard to shed that skin from the past. Just to think, we owe the image of sleaze to hypocritical Victorian upper class mentality, in fact it was the upper class that were responsible for so many wrongs we feel in the world today, they with time and wealth to ponder and explore.
Interestingly though the perception that belly dance has to be sexy comes from I believe Hoochie Coochie, which was what bellydance was called when it was first displayed in the US, perhaps then to flesh starved bible bashing Americans, how this dance was performed seemed erotic to them. Now bellydance has moved on, it with many has become more respectable in the west as now it is not the sole preserve of the professional out to make a living, but it is now a hobby for amateurs. Perhaps it is the amateur that is propelling belly dance out of it's western hoochie coochie origins even. Hoochie Coochie dancing is now as ever seen as erotic dancing, but belly dance is finding it hard to shed that skin from the past. Just to think, we owe the image of sleaze to hypocritical Victorian upper class mentality, in fact it was the upper class that were responsible for so many wrongs we feel in the world today, they with time and wealth to ponder and explore.
Suzanne Azhaar
Active member
I've seen a few fantastic male belly dancers, enjoyed the strength and confidence they projected. Dance as often as you can and enjoy yourself.
Tarik Sultan
New member
And you are a self-appointed to educate Egyptian, unfortunately!!
A one who try to explain must understand first!! There is a difference between social events dance and professional .. for the bazillion time.
If you don't like what I have to say, too bad. Its all true and all based on fact. I've taken the time and spent the money to go to Egypt and learn FROM THEM. If you don't have any knowledge to bring to the table on the subject, or worse, lack the ethics to be HONEST and TRUTHFUL about the complexity of the situation, don't take it out on me when I poke holes through your deceptions and half truths.
Your comment, as usual, is not made with the intent to add any clatity to the topic, but to create confusion and conflict. You have a PERSONAL ax to grind where I'm concerned, do the forum a favor, grind it elsewhere! As to your comment. We've been all over this a million times. I'm always very specific about the context I'm speaking about and you know it. I was speaking specifically about social dance and YOU KNOW IT, that's why I showed clips of social dancing. Otherwise I would have shown clips of professional male dancers like Tito and Mimo.
At the moment Sharem el Sheikh is the only place where you will find men performing Oriental professionally and I've always been very clear as to why that is, and why the entertainment establishment as well as many people in the society feel resistant to the though of a man performing Oriental on stage. I've done it in great detail adding to the forum's understanding of the culture and the historical currents that have shaped the current climate. I've also shed light on the context in which the men's native dance is making a resurgence in Cairo in wedding parties and popular music concerts. I've done a lot to add to the understanding of the situation, and guess what? Unlike you, I didn't have to lie and twist the truth just to make a point!so do me a favor, run along back to your friend and stop trying to do her bidding by taking my comments out of context. I do not spend anywhere near the amount of time I use to here and I'd appreciate it if the few times I do pop in to offer encouragement and help to fellow male dancers, dance students and my sisters who want to understand the situation, you didn't pop in to create dischord. I for one have nothing more to say to or about you because all you do here is troll around and make silly comments. You are not a dancer, you have no familiarity with this aspect of the culture, and you certainly haven't a clue what is happening in contemporary Egyptian culture where dance or the issue of male dance is concerned, social or professional, despite the fact that your family happened to settle in Egypt after fleeing Albania. Sorry pal, I get my information from hanging with THE REAL EGYPTIANS! And with that I'll say goodbye to you. Permanently I hope.
Love and light as always.... Or should I say regards?
TARIK SULTAN!
masrawy
New member
Dear Tarik
I am not here to educate you my friend ... but when you put statement like the one you made. I would call you on it, it's pretty simple don't make it complicated. If you are going to consider anyone who disagree with you a torll then be it be my guest. In your YouTube videos you have been called for the kind of claims you make by real Egyptians, in which you have the control over deleting comments that doesn't fit your narrow understanding to the culture. You are trying to do the same thing over here too.
As for the little man talk about me you said " you have nothing more to say to or about me" but obviously you couldn't help yourself. Now you are an expert about my background, and my family genealogy too!!
Insulting me will not do it ... I am not trying to sell snake oil over here and when the owner of this site tell me to leave .. I will.
Furthermore, you have serious problem with this imaginary enemies you think is out to get you!! my advice to you seek professional help for this problem.
PS: before you jump to any conclusion that I post any comments in your YouTube channel, I have never done it. That's not how I operate I will tell as it is in your face.
Have a nice day ~Mahmoud
To Zorba, I did not raise it a notch in order to take it down one .. the same level of voice as always, but I reserve the right to respond appropriately.
Tarik Sultan
New member
The truth is plain for all to see
All accusations against my reputation are strictly personal attacks and I think everyone here knows that this is an attempt to hijack this thread and create conflict. Anyone can check my previous posts at anytime, as well as the articles on my website to see that I've always been honest and thorough about this issue. As for claims that I edit comments on my youtube videos, all one has to do is look for yourselves to see that it is not true. I only remove comments that are extreemly vulgar or contain profanity. There are negative coments left by people in Arabic and English, but the Arabic negative comments are usually given negative marks by other Arabic speacking people.
The interview I posted was straight forward in the context that men dance in Egypt, as are the video clips I've posted. Now, I'm going to honor what I've said and not do or say anything further to play into this blatant attack. Moderators, I'd hope that you handle this latest incident. I'm tired of people taking personal potshots at me.
All accusations against my reputation are strictly personal attacks and I think everyone here knows that this is an attempt to hijack this thread and create conflict. Anyone can check my previous posts at anytime, as well as the articles on my website to see that I've always been honest and thorough about this issue. As for claims that I edit comments on my youtube videos, all one has to do is look for yourselves to see that it is not true. I only remove comments that are extreemly vulgar or contain profanity. There are negative coments left by people in Arabic and English, but the Arabic negative comments are usually given negative marks by other Arabic speacking people.
The interview I posted was straight forward in the context that men dance in Egypt, as are the video clips I've posted. Now, I'm going to honor what I've said and not do or say anything further to play into this blatant attack. Moderators, I'd hope that you handle this latest incident. I'm tired of people taking personal potshots at me.
masrawy
New member
Dear Tarik,
I have never accused you of being a liar, I believe that you tell the truth as you see it and that does not make it fact. But if you put it out there expect to be called upon it, you're not special.
Please look back at quotation I put in my first post to you in this thread, if I believe right my first post since three months ago.
So accusation of a troll, hijack in trying to provoke has no place in this
Any Egyptian would be offended by your comment!! If you don't get that I don't know what to say to you, that would make it understand. You claim to have respect for the Egyptian people .. please show that respect.
Salam~Mahmoud
PS: the remark about your YouTube, you yourself have posted something about it sometimes ago.
I have never accused you of being a liar, I believe that you tell the truth as you see it and that does not make it fact. But if you put it out there expect to be called upon it, you're not special.
Please look back at quotation I put in my first post to you in this thread, if I believe right my first post since three months ago.
So accusation of a troll, hijack in trying to provoke has no place in this
Any Egyptian would be offended by your comment!! If you don't get that I don't know what to say to you, that would make it understand. You claim to have respect for the Egyptian people .. please show that respect.
Salam~Mahmoud
PS: the remark about your YouTube, you yourself have posted something about it sometimes ago.
Tarik Sultan
New member
No Egyptian will be offended by what I've said because its the truth. There is nothing in this interview that is not true. If so, point it out.
This is the way men in Egypt dance socially. Where is the untruth? This is footage taken in public of ordinary Egyptians and there are hundreds of other such videos on youtube made by native Egyptians. Where is the insult to Egyptian culture? These are native Egyptians in Egypt expressing their culture. Where is the distortion? This is in public and anyone can see and experience it themselves. Its not my word. I just captured the reality.
In Egypt, it is now the current fashion for the singers to bring groups of young men to dance behind them and in the audience. They don't do it in costume, but in regular street clothes. This is a fact, so where have I stretched the truth or misled anyone? I danced in a wedding in Alexandria this summer and I was followed by a singer with 20 male dancers in the same manner as this clip. Again, where is the insult or lack of respect to Egyptians and their culture? Because I tell the truth?
Again, what am I making up?
I've always been 100% honest that what we see on stage is based on the social dance. That men dance socially, that its only in recent years that in Sharem El Shikh men have begun performing Oriental dance on stage in public. Tito was the first
This is the information provided with my video of Tito. I placed him in the correct social and cultural context. The information is right there in the right hand column under MORE INFO for those who take the time to read it. Again, where have I twisted the truth? Tito does exist, as does Mimo and his brother Miro and Nimo, as well as walid and the other guys who now dance in Sharem. Where have I made the distortion?
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MORE INFO:
What we call belly dance is a theatrical version of the social folk dance done in Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries. Its an expression of celebration and fun done by both sexes.
The perofessional version we are use to seeing was developed in the nightclubs of Cairo in the 1930's. It has been done almost exclucively by women because it is tied into the tourism market where the majority of the customers in the nightclubs are male. In recent years, men have began to join their sisters on stage as well. The first modern male dancers began in the U.S.A. in the late '60's and 1970's, then spreading to Europe in the '80's and '90's. Now the numbers of male dancers is increasing world wide.
Tito Seif known as Egypt's only professional male Oriental/belly dancer. He is the most acclaimed Oriental dancer in Egypt's popular resort town Sharm el Sheikh in the Sianai.
He is being sought out more and more in Cairo and Alexandria to perform in weddings and othere special eventsI. When I spoke to him this summer he was on his way to perform at a saint day celebration in Alexandria. I filmed this performance in Giza, July 2005.
I've been told that there are at least two more guys performing in Egypt's Red Sea resort towns, but I haven't seen them. In any case, Tito is definately the first man in modern times to perform this dance in a professional, rather than social setting for the general public, Egyptian and foreign alike.
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I have always told the entire truth about this issue and there is no one who can show where I've stretched the truth. I've always been 100% honest about the fact that the majority of Egyptians find the idea of a man dancing professionally strange and radical to say the least, as well as explaining why. However, I also have a very long track record of performing for 100% Egyptian audiences, both here and in Egypt and I have always been well received and this you well know because you've been there to see it in person. Am I accepted by everyone? No and I have always been honest about this fact. Every time I perform, I have to win my audience over, and I've always been honest about that, but the fact is, that the times I have performed, I have been well received and I've also been honest as to why that is. So once again, this is nothjing but a personal attack on your part because I have always been honest about the context of male dancing in Egypt both social and professional and I have always been honest about my experiences both positive and negative as well as the challeges I've faced in finding acceptance as a professional dancer, yet despite all that I've written, you pretend not to know it, even though I've discussed it with you in person. If there is dishonest here, stretching the truth, as always, that ball falls not in my court but yours. This thread was not about me and this attack has hijacked the thread and I apologize, but when I am slandered I feel compelled to defend myself.
