No hope

[khanjar]

Thankyou Eshta, I will hang in there, make no doubt about that, I got my teeth into this now, I will have to suffer rejection on all quarters for me to give up a class as a bad job, but even then, there are DVD's as a last resort.

You are quite correct in some points of your statement of irony, if I or any other wished to leer, there are so many other opportunities I would think for that, and opportunities where the oft single male presence would not have go through the embarrassment to get his thrills.

I believe I read on Afra Al Kahira's website about male dancers, that a teacher could deal with a suspect by positioning him front and centre, thus giving no opportunity to leer, if that is his game, I will go with that if it makes people happy.

Male Dancers

The plus side of that, is the majority being women can take amusement at my lack of fluidity, co-ordination and mess ups.

I had a pal here tonight who on learning of my interest, tried his best to disuade me, I showed him one of Tarik Sultan's videos on youtube and he eventually left clutching three of my belly dance music disks, for, he says, great for working to hahaha. The drum solos by Solace, he loves, mind, I do too, the one called Circle from Ahsas is excellent.

 

[khanjar]

Just an update, my emailing exercise quoting this forum have so far yielded an invite to attend a class next Tuesday.

 

[Eshta]

Just an update, my emailing exercise quoting this forum have so far yielded an invite to attend a class next Tuesday.

:dance::clap::dance: Yay Khanjar! May this be the first step towards a long-term love affair with oriental dance!!!

Try not to let the narrow-minded *$£@s get to you, not that it makes it ok, but what you have to endure in terms of sexism, at least those same narrow-minded *&%$£s won't be analysing you for your age, weight, looks, etc. Well, not quite so intently as if you had boobs (and yes, they would be scrutinised too)! And if you ever need motivation, just think: when you are a fully fledged male dancer, no matter what your sexual orientation, you will be able to induce shrieks & whoops of delight & fervour at your slightest shimmy while those of us with boobs will get a mediocre "huh, she's not all that" for the same endeavour :lol:! See, not all bad, huh?!

Oh, and may I demand that you report back?!

 

[Suheir]

Just an update, my emailing exercise quoting this forum have so far yielded an invite to attend a class next Tuesday.

Good! I hope you enjoy it!

 

[khanjar]

:dance::clap::dance: Yay Khanjar! May this be the first step towards a long-term love affair with oriental dance!!!

Try not to let the narrow-minded *$£@s get to you, not that it makes it ok, but what you have to endure in terms of sexism, at least those same narrow-minded *&%$£s won't be analysing you for your age, weight, looks, etc. Well, not quite so intently as if you had boobs (and yes, they would be scrutinised too)! And if you ever need motivation, just think: when you are a fully fledged male dancer, no matter what your sexual orientation, you will be able to induce shrieks & whoops of delight & fervour at your slightest shimmy while those of us with boobs will get a mediocre "huh, she's not all that" for the same endeavour :lol:! See, not all bad, huh?!

Oh, and may I demand that you report back?!

Thankyou Eshta and Suheir for your wishes and of course I will report back.

The though has crossed my mind about those who care not to have a male presence, the critics perhaps, they I feel I have an answer. I would tell them that I am here for comical value, so they can concentrate on my lack of co-ordination, rhythm and general clumsiness rather than on how they feel they look themselves. Either that or they can be awed by a male physique wiggling it hahahaha.

Maybe my astrologer was right after all, maybe I am a triple threat to women hahaha. Ah well, my reasons for going to a dance class, is to learn the dance, and I will try not to be swayed by the critics. I am used to female dominated enviroments, my college course consists of twenty six women with ages from I would guess twenties through to fifties. There are males on the course, all two of us.

 

[Eshta]

That's the spirit Khanjar! And for those that refused you before, "They don't know what they're missing!"

 

[khanjar]

Boo, the class I started, has quit for the summer, restarting in September I think, either way, I will be emailed when that is to happen. It has been suggested I get a video to practice by for when the class restarts.

There is another class I have found locally, an ATS class, but am wondering about it, maybe there, but am not that happy about learning something mixed with flamenco at the moment, and from what I have heard, they are a clenched fist, feminist group, so am not sure if I should rattle their cage with an email.

It is not as if they can refuse, because they practice within the art college and their policy is equal opportunities to all and this goes with whoever rents their space, one of the provisos, but I am sensitive and do not wish to feel ill thoughts.

But, I am finding I may well have to enquire, as I have got a friend interested now, a sort of person who will not take no for an answer, kind of militant in her late fifties age and will push me I know, as she did recently when I was going to quit my college course, she wouldn't let me and I just didn't need the earache, so I stayed.

I do like the ATS, particularly the solo drum stuff, but think I need to learn basics before delving into cross cultural stuff, what do others think ?


The class I was at, they are having a festival soon, all the BD in the southwest I believe, I may go and if prudent, in my capacity as a photographer, at least those whom I came to know in the class may see me as interested. Besides a mini festival is a good start for going to a major festival.

You may understand from how I write, I am still wary of this, not me and what I want to do, but wary at stepping on toes and creating ill feeling, I am not of the leering brigade but genuinely interested and I wish to project that.

 

[jenc]

That is a long break from now until Sept. I would not be happy myself.

 

[Kharis]

Boo, the class I started, has quit for the summer,

I always think that's a right royal pain in the arse. Why on earth do people use schools and colleges as dance venues?

 

[Kharis]

Thank you for your reply Yasmine, I was wondering if I would get a reply as negativity is kind of rife at the moment with what I have experienced so far. I do understand Women's point of view about males, but we are not all predatory, and we are not all interested in seeing learning to express oneself artistically as a dating game or a quick thrill. I feel any man who wishes to put himself in a predominantly female enviroment to learn something which is largely seen as a female pursuit has a great deal of courage ,and I do admire those males here who have managed to suceed where many would fail.

I'm prepared to teach males too. But I live in Manchester.

 

[Reen.Blom]

Congratulations! Do come back to tell us how it went!!

 

[karena]

There is another class I have found locally, an ATS class, but am wondering about it, maybe there, but am not that happy about learning something mixed with flamenco at the moment, and from what I have heard, they are a clenched fist, feminist group, so am not sure if I should rattle their cage with an email.

It is not as if they can refuse, because they practice within the art college and their policy is equal opportunities to all and this goes with whoever rents their space, one of the provisos, but I am sensitive and do not wish to feel ill thoughts.

But, I am finding I may well have to enquire, as I have got a friend interested now, a sort of person who will not take no for an answer, kind of militant in her late fifties age and will push me I know, as she did recently when I was going to quit my college course, she wouldn't let me and I just didn't need the earache, so I stayed.

I do like the ATS, particularly the solo drum stuff, but think I need to learn basics before delving into cross cultural stuff, what do others think ?

Depends on the individuals, but being a feminist does not mean you discriminate against men. It means you are aware and want to counter discrimination based on gender, which has historically been against women. Women who know how it feels to be discriminated against are likely to be aware of the impact of discrimination in general and therefore not do it themselves. Of course, it entirely depends on the women, they could want to see the end of men replaced by a sperm bank for all I know, but any such discrimination would not be because they are feminist, as much as some people would like to have you believe it.

And drums solos aren't exclusive to tribal, so you can relax on that bit.

 

[khanjar]

Thank you Karina, I have since found out the drum thing is not specific to tribal from this interesting website ;

Venus - Articles

Yes, you are quite right about possible feminists, I may as well give them a laugh too.I have now to email them, as I am under pressure, my friend being persistent and all that wants to try, but she won't go if I don't go and if I don't act on this, I know I won't hear the last of it

You have an interesting signature BTW

 

[Reen.Blom]

Thank you Karina, I have since found out the drum thing is not specific to tribal from this interesting website ;

Venus - Articles

Yes, you are quite right about possible feminists, I may as well give them a laugh too.I have now to email them, as I am under pressure, my friend being persistent and all that wants to try, but she won't go if I don't go and if I don't act on this, I know I won't hear the last of it

You have an interesting signature BTW

I suppose it will not hurt to write to them! After all if after one class you feel bad vibe you can leave and continue searching, but also will sort of get a taste of Tribal.

Any group that is all female will feel cautious at first if they not used to having a male in class, but Im sure the ice will melt when you charm them with your personality!

 

[Caroline_afifi]

As this thread is aclled 'no hope' I thought this would fit here.

On Friday night at Raqs B, Ozgen who is a really nice guy and great entertainer performed his piece. Ok, he removed his tight shirt to reveal his bare midriff etc. but the women shrieked and wooped so much through his dance he had to signal to them to shush.

If this happend whilst a woman was dancing for an audience of men, everyone would be having a real go at the men and calling them for everything. Some women need to get a serious grip of themselves and stop whining about the behaviour of men whilst imitating them at their worst.

 

[Eshta]

As this thread is aclled 'no hope' I thought this would fit here.

On Friday night at Raqs B, Ozgen who is a really nice guy and great entertainer performed his piece. Ok, he removed his tight shirt to reveal his bare midriff etc. but the women shrieked and wooped so much through his dance he had to signal to them to shush.

If this happend whilst a woman was dancing for an audience of men, everyone would be having a real go at the men and calling them for everything. Some women need to get a serious grip of themselves and stop whining about the behaviour of men whilst imitating them at their worst.

Caroline, quit it with the good points until I can rep you again!! No, don't really though!! This exact point absolutely riles me, & I find it really offputting.

 

[Suheir]

Caroline, quit it with the good points until I can rep you again!! No, don't really though!! This exact point absolutely riles me, & I find it really offputting.

Yep, me too. What are the bets on JimBoz coming out alive from the JWAAD Summer School?

 

[taheya]

Yep, me too. What are the bets on JimBoz coming out alive from the JWAAD Summer School?

:lol: Not betting on that the odds are too low!!
I agree with you Caroline, Suheir and Eshta it is so emabarassing when the women go wild at the male dancers--iti s obvious that it is not only for their dancing skills either :lol:

 

[khanjar]

I suppose at the end of the day, be we male or female, we are all just humans and as natural humans we may act as what we are in various situations.

Perhaps it is the pack mentality, ever notice how a single male or single female is the most upstanding person when they are on their own, but given the security of numbers of their own sex, they can change, sometimes out of character, buoyed up with the security, comfort and familiarity they feel in numbers, add alcohol, then that can be a recipe for out of character behaviour if ever there was.

A lone female in a male enviroment, or a lone male in a female enviroment, it is just the same, women can be as bad as men and men can be as bad as women. A better situation would be equal or roughly equal representation of the sexes, then perhaps the art form being performed would be seen and not the sex.

More male dancers required then, the lack of, I see largely as men's fault and their insecurity about their masculinity. To you ladies when you see a male dancer, do you see femininity or masculinity, if it is the latter, please communicate this to males and there might be a change? As for a lot of males, their worst nightmare is for a woman not to see them as masculine and so masculine they must be, any hint of their action being in the slightest, feminine, they avoid. A vicious circle based largely on misunderstanding and misinformation, a failure of communication between the sexes.

 

[Zorba]

On Friday night at Raqs B, Ozgen who is a really nice guy and great entertainer performed his piece. Ok, he removed his tight shirt to reveal his bare midriff etc. but the women shrieked and wooped so much through his dance he had to signal to them to shush.

I'm assuming he did this during his performance?

If so, I'd call him on it. This is, IMNSHO, a very tacky "stupid male trick" and has no place in our danceform. I see too much of this with male dancers as it is.