Not Golden Era- but still Vintage as Heck

Tourbeau

Active member
Zorba, you know I'm going to have mixed feelings on "it ALL." I agree that many of those old-school dancers like Cory, Aida, Rocky, Jamila, Amaya, Yasmin and Artemis (not a complete list, obviously) amassed a staggering breadth of knowledge. But there were also dancers who were "jack of all trades and master of none," because the sheer amount of material couldn't all be learned equally well under the constraints of their lives. Even today, most working dancers have some things they do well, a few more they do passably, then the skills start getting shallower as they spread out.

Besides, I don't think I would say AmCab is "it ALL." It's usually the common elements of Turkish, Egyptian, and Lebanese (basic movement vocabulary and finger cymbals), veil, and sometimes floorwork, cane, basic Khaleeji, and maybe your local clientele's folk dances. That still leaves out most west-of-Egypt North African dances (Moroccan, Tunisian, Algerian, Berber, etc.), shamadan and Egyptian folk dances, Ghawazee, Nubian, Iraqi (Kawliya, Chobi, etc.), a million flavors of dabke, other Khaleeji and Bedouin dances, Turkish non-karsilama folk dances, Turkish Roma, and so on.

The information you need to do a simple three- or five-part AmCab set is core knowledge, and I don't think you should be presenting yourself as any kind of professional "traditional" belly dancer if you haven't reached that proficiency, but there's still so much more out there. You could be considered high proficiency at a single ethnic substyle and do a classic nightclub routine, too. Hadia could do a solid Egyptian set and a solid Turkish set and a solid "generic AmCab" set, but a lot of AmCab dancers couldn't/can't "code switch" between variations like she did.

And I don't mean "generic" as an insult. Most dancers start out learning "generic" style, and it still takes a lot of talent and work to be good at it. But if you want to be the cream that rises to the top, even in the AmCab-verse, at some point, you need to develop the awareness that "This is 'just' a hip circle, but if I do it this way, it's more Egyptian and if I do it that way, it's more Turkish."

"Generic" used to be enough, and it's still enough for what most students need, but there are very few dancers who can specialize in it today and still be considered world-class if they hadn't built their reputations before the internet. (I'm sure there are others but Aziza is the only one I can think of at the moment.) Is it a double standard that you can be good at "only Egyptian" or "only Turkish," but not usually "only AmCab"? Yes, but it's also the nature of how the dance and the identity politics of culture have evolved. It's difficult to earn respect when you are carrying baggage labeled "People didn't know better back then. Unless they were exposed to people who were invested in ethnic nuances, they might not have even known it was important to care about the details back then."

There is just more cultural sensitivity now and more awareness that the skills the average nightclub dancer mastered fifty years ago isn't all there is to learn.
 

Tourbeau

Active member
Note that I'm restricting the following discussion to dancers with at least some experience: students who have been taking for two or more years, dancers in troupes who book public gigs, and dancers who've hung out their professional shingle.

Where I am (midwest US), there are basically three types of AmCab dancers.

Most of the first group around my state come through a program developed decades ago by an old-school club dancer and "franchised" to studios in a couple of cities. These dancers are the type you all are thinking of. They have solid knowledge in basic movement, use the main props (veil, cane, sword, etc.), and are required to play finger cymbals well. While they don't do a lot of hardcore folkloric dancing, their studios often sponsor workshops that teach it. Pretty much the only problem I have with them is that the fixed nature of their curriculum means that some of their contemporary pop-fluff choreographies stick around waaaayyy past their shelf lives. I love oldies. "Şımarık" was a great record. But, I'm sorry, teaching the same "Şımarık" choreography for over two decades is kind of shoddy.

Let's call the next and largest group "I Guess You're Trying?" These dancers wear bedlat and use modernized traditional music (usually the sort of "elevator BD music" with lots of synthesizers from collections with "Belly Dance" in the title, no-name studio musicians, and a picture of a dancer on the cover). They love fabric props, and it may be a law that every hafla around here is required to have at least one dancer perform to "Yearning." They very rarely play cymbals, and if they do, it's pretty simple patterns. While these dancers are recognized as doing "belly dance," they are a poor substitute for the AmCab you all are rhapsodizing about. They can get by with an inferior subset of knowledge because when the clubs with live music died, they took the need for long-form performance skills and the competitive environment to use them with them.

(BTW, the long form is not unique to AmCab. The intro+assortment of fast/slow/folkloric bits+drum solo+finale may have varied a little from place to place, but it was basically what native dancers were doing in the venues over there, too, and those scenes have also cratered.)

And let's call the third group "What in the World Are You Doing?" These ones have a lot of their identity tied up in being a belly dancer. They are passionate about belly dance, yet they live for belly dancing to non-belly-dance music and seasonal theme events. (They're busy getting ready for the highlight of their year, the Halloween hafla, right now.) They are basically the mindset of sketchy tribal in a cabaret bedlah--and, no, GB, they do not think of what they do as "fusion." They sincerely believe what they are doing is "expressing themselves through 'real,' 'authentic' belly dance." And I'm just saying to them, "Maybe before you get that tattoo of 'raqs sharqi' in Arabic script, you should question why you spent more hours creating your 'Tribute to "A Charlie Brown Christmas" (music by Vince Guaraldi)' number than any single other belly dance thing you did this year."

I also want to make a distinction between fusing separate elements to create sum-greater-than-the-parts art, fusion that "colors outside of cultural lines," and fusion that is inadvertent or information deficient. An artist who knows two different skill sets and merges them to create a third can make some really creative and thought-provoking art, as can one who filters one thing through a different artistic lens.

But let's talk about some problems I've encountered with dabke. I assume we all agree that old-school AmCab dancers, particularly ones who worked with a Levantine clientele, would have been expected to have some basic dabke knowledge, so this is fair game for this conversation, right?

Example 1: Troupe Director with many years of experience as a teacher/performer of traditional belly dance decided she wanted to update her dabke choreography. She asked me to bring in some new music suggestions. Then we had a discussion about why Assi al Hellani was using Saidi rhythm. Spoiler Alert: The singer whose nickname is ”The Lebanese Knight," who positions himself as the successor to Wadi al Safi as the modern bard of Lebanese folk music, who is singing in a Lebanese-Arabic dialect, is not singing Egyptian Saidi music. That's the nawari dabke rhythm.

Example 2: At the start of the pandemic, somebody here posted a link to some group's Zoom hafla. At one point, the MC of the event said Najwa Karam was her favorite singer...you know, Najwa Karam, the most prominent female singer of Lebanese folk music, which is a style traditionally dominated by male singers, so she kinda stands out. Also, it's a pretty low bar to know what style your favorite singer sings. At the end of the show, this dancer had a multi-window "open dance" for the performers and she chose a Najwa Karam song, and you guessed it... While it is extremely common for Levantines to "social dance" to dabke music when they can't get a line going, picking a song intended for close-contact communal dancing under pandemic distancing restrictions in a teleconferenced event is a deeply weird choice.

Example 3: I was at a hafla some years ago that had a mix of performances and blocks of music with open dancing on the floor. At some point, the DJ put on a dabke song. I don't remember if it was by Assi or Fares (no relation to Najwa) Karam, another singer who specializes in dabke music, but it was both a big hit and not ambiguous as to whether it was dabke or Saidi. Dancers poured onto the floor with their veils to dance to it, and I'm watching this crowd, more than half of whom perform yearly at the local Maronite church's festival, and everybody's doing barrel turns and snake arms. What. Just what. It wasn't even like a couple of stragglers against the wall were grapevining by themselves. Dozens of dancers missed the boat. (If you're wondering, I'd recently come off of five weeks on crutches after major foot surgery, and that's why I wasn't dancing.)

So to cut a long story short, GB, the only way what I'm talking about is "fusion" is if we are going to dignify the fusion of "Middle Eastern Dance" and "Not Knowing What You're Doing" with a label.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
The HUGE problem as I see it, is you just don't see much true/vintage/classic/whatever AmCab anymore. Artemis retired years ago, and is living in Argentina, blah, blah, blah. I am one of about 3 "old skool" AmCab dancers around here (space coast Florida) and I'm *HARDLY* a great example of the genre. Yet I now find myself playing the part of the "dance crone" and teaching this stuff to the younger dancers who - to my gratification - are largely very interested and eat it up. 3-1/2 minute time limits don't help anything either - and the festival circuit here costs you $350 if you're gonna perform. It would be cheaper for me to fly back to California and perform there - and I'd get a 7 or 8 minute slot at that. I probably couldn't do a complete 15-25 minute set anymore, I'm getting old.

True story: I teach a veil workshop, "When good veils go bad, overcoming veil phobia" - teaching mostly the seldom taught anymore stuff that everybody knew back in the day about how to recover from veil disasters because you WILL have a disaster with your veil. Anyway, the most important point to the whole workshop - and I stress this highly - is to get the HELL away from a dropped veil, and explain why, what I've personally seen, audience's reaction, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. One of the gals who took the workshop from me told me just yesterday that she was dancing with her veil in another class, dropped it and stepped on it with the predictable results. Thank Goddess she wasn't hurt. "So *THAT* is what he meant!" You know - that's fine, I'm glad she "got it" albeit the hard way, but why am I having to teach this kind of stuff? This was BASIC when I was a baby belly, EVERY teacher taught this, now nobody seems to. I'll be the community "dance crone" I guess because there isn't anybody else, but I sure don't hold a candle to the many REAL dance crones that I was privileged to learn at the knees of...

I just had a very good dancer ask me for advice on her upcoming competition performance. Well, Hell - I've only ever been in one competition, and that was years back as a baby belly, competing in the baby belly classification. I didn't win or place either! But here's my thoughts, blah, blah, blah. You'd probably be better off asking Judy Jinglehips, Sarah Sparklebutt, or Suzie Shimmytush (all local and accomplished beautiful dancers who have all done many competitions). I'll see this gal tonite, hopefully she did ask at least ONE of those dancers as well - yet she asks me! *boggles*

As an aside, I've seen AmCab dancers incorporate Egyptian, Moroccan, Ouled Nail, Ghwazee, and other ethnic forms as well. We won't discuss the Shikhatt! ;)
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
Zorba and Tourbeau, these are excellent points as far as what you see today (and some garbage that was seen back in the day). I haven't been to a club since Covid, but I do hear from the supposed professionals here who use the wings and the fan veils, not to mention "whipping" around the standard veil, but they can't play zills to save their souls. Luckily, I was taught by some of the professionals back in the day, so for the older set, they appreciate this style more; however, the younger set, as well as those born here, like all the newer,"frantic" fusiony stuff, and dancers accommodate them more in order to keep working. I do see more shamadan dancing and that's good to see because I was never too good with anything on my head.
 

Tourbeau

Active member
Zorba, since you are talking about teaching veil, I am curious what your thoughts are on some of those old moves that perhaps have not aged well. {Anybody else feel free to jump in, too...}

I'm particularly picturing the harem-girl face veiling/peek-a-boo and the wrist binding (where you wind the veil around your wrists over your head like you are doing a performance-art demonstration of using dental floss, then you'd usually do some undulations underneath it). I was taught this in early classes, and then told to be very careful about using these moves, to the point it was recommended to avoid them in front of ME audiences, who might interpret them as negative Orientalist commentary about hijab, women's rights, or slavery.

I don't think draping your veil over your head and doing snake arms, another move that would come up in those classes, is particularly offensive, but I never liked it, especially with an opaque veil. Maybe you can pull it off with a really thin chiffon or lace veil where you can still see the dancer's face...sort of? But otherwise, what kind of dumb ghost costume with no eye holes is that supposed to be?
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
All I can say is that with everything and anything, SOMEONE is going to be offended, but all you can do is use the best wisdom. I've even heard that dancing on a doumbek is an insult to the musicians...
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
All I can say is that with everything and anything, SOMEONE is going to be offended, but all you can do is use the best wisdom. I've even heard that dancing on a doumbek is an insult to the musicians...
Only if you put your foot through it... ;)

I long ago gave up any pretense of caring about other people's "Offense". Now half the world's population is constantly "offended" over one thing or another. If you look for offense, you will find it.

As for veil technique, as long as its pretty and well executed, I'm all for it. Come to think of it, I haven't thought about the "wrist binding" (I usually use Maias) in quite some time. I like slow, light, floaty veilwork myself, although my teacher can do high speed veil and make it look good. She also can *PLAY* her finger cymbals while doing veilwork. Nobody told her that it couldn't be done, so she went ahead an did it anyway!

But my veil workshop is more about safety and veil disaster recovery than style. I only teach the very basics of technique, and only do that if I have veil virgins in the class - which I usually do. There's 50 million accomplished veil dancers out there, 49,999,997 of them are better than I am and the other 3 are in my class - so I'll teach what the others do not, and let the "real" teachers teach how to look pretty as they do it better than I do and teach it better too! I started the workshop years ago because so many wonderful dancers told me they were afraid of their veil - and it turns out because they didn't know how to get out of the inevitable troubles veil dancing encounters because they hadn't been taught how.

My current teacher is one such - she was terrified of veil "What if it {insert veil disaster here}?" I got her over that, and she flew right past me in both ability and beauty! Like all beginners to veil, she was nervous about losing the edge - now she doesn't even care because she KNOWS she can recover from anything her veil throws at her. She'll throw the thing up into the air, grab it as it comes back down, do a "standard veil recovery" and keep on dancing! I could NOT be prouder of her!

Now I'm starting to do finger cymbal coaching. The usual "one size fits all" teaching method doesn't fit all - nobody's method does, including mine. But I have had some successes, once we get past the inevitable "step-clink" phase. One student told me "I am beginning to appreciate just how hard this is!" Yea, it *is* hard, and unfortunately, there are NO shortcuts. If you wanna learn this, you have to go through all this clumsy, boring stuff and do a LOT of practicing!
 

Shanazel

Moderator
The peek-a-boo flirting over a veil can be the belly dance version of flirting over a fan. One can smolder or one can light-heartedly twinkle, depending on the song and the scenario. Any time I attempted to smolder over the edge of my veil, I either got the giggles or slipped on the darn thing and fell on my butt, so I gave up smoldering early on. Bondage veils don't appeal to me. Shakira did a wrist-binding whip snapping pseudo-belly dance thing with a rope that exceeded the ridiculous and entered the sublime, but the crowd went wild. No accounting for the fantasy lives of others.

Back on Noah's yacht, we used veils for the equivalent of an onstage costume change during multi-song sets. I recall spending a good half a class once learning different veil draping techniques and how to untangle oneself from such a drape gracefully. Opening the veil was always done with one's back to the audience; whipping off the veil facing the audience smacked of strip tease. (No, please don't start about the legitimacy of strip tease as an artform. I am not criticizing strippers, just noting that their costume reveals are of a completely different nature and purpose and have no place in belly dance.)
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Opening/removing the veil with back to audience is a "rule" that I've never heard - but it makes sense and I like it. I've always done that anyway, instinct I guess. But as I tell my students, I'm definitely "New Skool" when it comes to veilwork. I do very little "dance it off" as I usually end up with a problem if I drag it on too much. Then I tell them about the Tribal gal who tucked in my veil for me, thinking she was doing me a favor - a veil dancer she was not. It was just the usual backstage primping - or so I thought - and I didn't think anything of it. I learned the hard way: NEVER let ANYBODY touch your veil! Dressing room primping is fine, but hands off that veil! Dunia was present in the audience and was wondering what the **** is wrong with his veil? It would NOT come off - it was one of those situations where I had to face the audience and make a comment about misbehaving veils while doing undulations and fixing the damn thing in front of Gods and everybody! It happens...
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I saw a restaurant dancer get her veil hung on a hook of some kind in the ceiling. She stopped, incorporated a short visual scolding of the naughty veil into her dance, tossed the dangling part onto a nearby fake potted palm tree, and danced away. It was really cute. Someone got it down for her later.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
I saw a restaurant dancer get her veil hung on a hook of some kind in the ceiling. She stopped, incorporated a short visual scolding of the naughty veil into her dance, tossed the dangling part onto a nearby fake potted palm tree, and danced away. It was really cute. Someone got it down for her later.
Yep. That's called "Cutting your losses". The club I danced at for years had a weird, spiky kind of chandelier about 2 feet from the front edge of the tiny stage. More than one dancer's veil got caught on it - just walk away, somebody will get the remains of it down tomorrow...
 

hippyhips

Member
Denigrating AmCab has been a popular past time for years. I learned to let it roll off my shoulders decades ago.


Its actually gone the opposite way now (thank goodness), people are appreciating the older traditional AMCAB stuff. however, optically there's only one place that "officially" teaches "it" (even though that's just one method - to outsiders it seems this is they ONLY method . I like the older AMCAB stuff, but not the newer "official" stuff that. Salimpour method) Its methods are a newer incarnation than what it was originally with more jazz influence rather than the various ME overall influences. i Prefer the latter.

The more i think about it, the more i wonder if the overt jazz influence was what people were annoyed with? the older stuff, although defiantly having a western influence, was more centered around all the ME styles with a heavy Turkish influence, therefore being more grounded in belly dance traditions? im just thinking out loud here
 
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hippyhips

Member
Nott. "Belly dancing" was a big, mushy stew of ethnic entertainment in those days, not the "Post your sources, so I can evaluate your competence" game of internet infighting that it can turn into now.

As Greek Bonfire rightfully points out, many dancers back then were working in multiethnic, melting-pot environments, in an era when people were not as sensitive to cultural appropriation/misappropriation as they are now. I've always supported the idea there isn't anything inherently wrong with mashing up different cultural elements if you do it thoughtfully and make your intention clear to your audience


You put everything down in my thoughts so eloquently. I Might add that i really enjoy the mixture of ME styles, and that alot of ME people seemed to enjoy the dancing in the fez (theres a great documentary on this too by Roxanne herself. )

But it is also likely that some of that foundational dancing of the AmCab style would face blowback today that it didn't decades ago. Not that insiders weren't opinionated back then (people have always had thoughts about why their culture was right and somebody else's was wrong), but I sincerely wonder whether Jamila Salimpour could do today what she did at those faire shows without somebody like Randa Jarrar weighing in on all the egregious hate crimes she was committing with her disrespectfully insufficient rigor.

Very true, i also think that the Balanat styles were created out of love and a lack of information. She did what she could back then with what she had. The salimpour method, as i have said previously, obviously changed alot when suhalia took over and incorporated jazz disciplines (i would say made it the overarching reach of the method). to me, this changed the AMCAB style ALOT and made her method THEE amcab style. This is what MIGHT have caused alot of the blowback of amcab in recent times as it seemed to veer away from the melting pot that it was :( . Please understand im not American, so i can only say what this looks like optically from the time ive started learning.


Many dancers really were sensitive to ethnic differences and wanted to dance conscientiously back then, but they just didn't have access to the higher quality information we have today, and there was no internet of "BD Purist Nazis" hectoring them to care. How much can you be responsible for--in hindsight--being kind of a hot mess, when you learned on your own from passive media like a book or a record album, or from a teacher who wasn't qualified to teach but you didn't know that when you signed up for class? At one point not that long ago, there were dancers learning from Janine Rabbitt's VHS tape. (I won't link it, but it's on YouTube.) They tried. They meant well. And YouTube didn't exist to go, "Oh, I see you're trying to teach yourself belly dancing. Here are some presumably-better-because-they're-more-popular clips of dancers for you to watch next."

We can also see people dancing from that country as well, not just teachers, but people actually from that culture. That's a MAJOR leg up. It also comes with its own downfalls, like people believing that Russian / Ukrainian dancers ARE dancing ME styles when they are not, simply due to the plethora of them online. i find alot of Chinese dancers dance the Russian styles and i rarely see them dancing Egyptian or Turkish. also, we can understand the cultural aspects better, again, meaning we can see that we have lack of dancers from the ME regions to learn from, due to the change in their culture. We have a better understanding of this, but its a double edged sword.


"The lack of standards and practices prevents us from getting the same respect as other dance forms" conversation.

Can i also point out that the flip side to this is that other world folkloric dances have been very "westernized" (ie ballroom) which gives them respect as WE see it, where as there always the bite back to competitions and "standardization" and that style which is what the RU / UKR styles tried to do early on, becoming the competition style they're known for now. Its a double edged sword over here. On the one had we want it recognized as the beautiful dance it is, on the other hand we dont want to "ballroom" it.
 
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Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
It really is about what the audience prefers. I've never been a big fan of floor work (waiting for the blows to start) but many of us don't like everything. Also, as people are more educated about dances from the east, the more they want authenticity. As for veil unwrapping, I was always taught to unwrap with my back to the audience but it was to be done AS your back was to the audience to start the unwrap yet keep going and not stop.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
As for veil unwrapping, I was always taught to unwrap with my back to the audience but it was to be done AS your back was to the audience to start the unwrap yet keep going and not stop.

This is exactly what I meant, but you explained it better. (y)

I never cared for floor work either, rarely, rarely did it, and then only when absolutely expected by an employer. Who wants to drag an expensive costume around on a dirty floor? Who wants to be that vulnerable? I feel safer on my feet. I also think it's cheesy, though I have seen some very good floor work that managed to transcend the cheese.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
I *LOVE* good - with the emphasis on GOOD - floorwork. I can't do it very well myself, but I know good floorwork when I see it. I was taught to never, EVER do floorwork except on a raised stage. Otherwise, the dancer disappears into a "hole" and nobody can see her except whoever is in the front row/nearby tables/whatever's close. I actually felt compelled to "get after" a local dancer for doing just that when a perfectly good stage was "right there". We're close friends, so she's always open to comments. She wasn't on the stage because she was "feeding off the audience energy" by wanting to be close to the audience - something I *COMPLETELY* understand as most dancers new to big stages have that issue, I sure did! The next time I saw her perform, she was on the stage and she agreed that it was "much mo' bettah!"

Being on an elevated stage also helps with the vulnerability feeling - you're not looking at a bunch of feet and knees!
 

Ariadne

Well-known member
Only if you put your foot through it... ;)

I long ago gave up any pretense of caring about other people's "Offense". Now half the world's population is constantly "offended" over one thing or another. If you look for offense, you will find it.

As for veil technique, as long as its pretty and well executed, I'm all for it. Come to think of it, I haven't thought about the "wrist binding" (I usually use Maias) in quite some time. I like slow, light, floaty veilwork myself, although my teacher can do high speed veil and make it look good. She also can *PLAY* her finger cymbals while doing veilwork. Nobody told her that it couldn't be done, so she went ahead an did it anyway!

But my veil workshop is more about safety and veil disaster recovery than style. I only teach the very basics of technique, and only do that if I have veil virgins in the class - which I usually do. There's 50 million accomplished veil dancers out there, 49,999,997 of them are better than I am and the other 3 are in my class - so I'll teach what the others do not, and let the "real" teachers teach how to look pretty as they do it better than I do and teach it better too! I started the workshop years ago because so many wonderful dancers told me they were afraid of their veil - and it turns out because they didn't know how to get out of the inevitable troubles veil dancing encounters because they hadn't been taught how.

My current teacher is one such - she was terrified of veil "What if it {insert veil disaster here}?" I got her over that, and she flew right past me in both ability and beauty! Like all beginners to veil, she was nervous about losing the edge - now she doesn't even care because she KNOWS she can recover from anything her veil throws at her. She'll throw the thing up into the air, grab it as it comes back down, do a "standard veil recovery" and keep on dancing! I could NOT be prouder of her!

Now I'm starting to do finger cymbal coaching. The usual "one size fits all" teaching method doesn't fit all - nobody's method does, including mine. But I have had some successes, once we get past the inevitable "step-clink" phase. One student told me "I am beginning to appreciate just how hard this is!" Yea, it *is* hard, and unfortunately, there are NO shortcuts. If you wanna learn this, you have to go through all this clumsy, boring stuff and do a LOT of practicing!
So when are you going to start teaching online? ;)
I would love to take classes on those.
 

Greek Bonfire

Well-known member
It really is about what the audience prefers. I've never been a big fan of floor work (waiting for the blows to start) but many of us don't like everything. Also, as people are more educated about dances from the east, the more they want authenticity. As for veil unwrapping, I was always taught to unwrap with my back to the audience but it was to be done AS your back was to the audience to start the unwrap yet keep going and not stop.

These are all excellent points. I have turned away from a lot of the "jazzed up" methods and am somewhat dismayed by what a certain person has added to this, especially since she is from a Middle Eastern background, but I guess in order to sell more and attract more in the west, there was some compromising.

What is the most tragic is that much of the Middle Eastern culture doesn't even want their women to participate in the dance at all unless it's hidden so we are deprived for the most part on good classic authentic Middle Eastern dance. What few women do perform, they have either sexed it up or also conformed to more western styles, like Randa Kamal when she is in the west, but many dancers in the west were disappointed because she did this.
 
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