Actually, I forgot I already was ornery at you earlier in this thread.:redface: If I'd remembered, I would have restrained myself. Sorry, didn't mean to jump down your throat.Oh for heaven's sake..what have I done to you! rueful?????
I did say not necess. BDSS and in Cairo which is from where much of our inspiration comes, talk to anyone who visits and knows the dancers...they have taken to inplants with a vengence. And many of the latest bras are designed with that in mind.So it is a source of interest to dancers. And dancers without fulsome chests have choices.
Yes and for your info I pass no judgement . For centuries women have sought to enhance their looks and this is only the latest chance for that.
welcome to the DD club..but I only gained 'em along with hot flushes(flashes) so guess how prickly that makes me!:lol:Actually, I forgot I already was ornery at you earlier in this thread.:redface: If I'd remembered, I would have restrained myself. Sorry, didn't mean to jump down your throat.
I do take it a bit personally as a larger-busted woman. I guess I'm just prickly right now. And bored (current assignment is veeery dull during dead time).
You know, thinking about it... If I wasn't scared of sugery and afraid that my boobs would explode on an areoplane and I couldn't fly out to space if the world was going to get destroyed.... I think I'd get implants. Lol.
Big IF though....
on other hand you could wait for the menopause
of course getting gigs when you're 50 is another matter :lol:
..... I'm 55 and I dance a lot, Morocco is, er, older than me and she dances a lot. Shareen El Safy dances a lot. The dancers in my company are mostly not younger women and we dance pretty often. We just have other venues than the club or restaurant scene
I'm 61 and I dance a lot BUT, as you point out, they are not the paid gigs a young dancer might yearn for and as you get older it is about teaching and leading and creating opportunities.
I remember the threads on older dancers and it's true there will always be the exception: the glamorous well preserved and skilful 50+er still getting paid restaurant/ club gigs.But for most of us,it's other ways to shine.
That is the way it is here in the states, too. I am proud to say that my dance company is breaking away from that and we not only get paid ourselves, but we pay every dancer who graces our stage in the form of guest dancers as well. It may not be much, but at least we do not expect them to dance for free,or worse yet, pay to dance in a professional show. As far as I am concerned, respect for our fellow artists begins in our own back yards and financial compensation is the way to prove that we mean it. ( Now, this is not haflas, but every professional show. However, I do not charge performing dancers at haflas an entry fee as so many others do.)I probably get as many opportunities to dance as any belly dancer of my age in the Uk and I doubt any of us expect to top up our pension to any extent.
I think there are probably far more opportunities to be paid for dancing in the US. I am hoping to put on, with friends a theatre show and any profits ( or losses1:think will be shared. A dance creation.Most dance companies plough back any profits into funds and not pay dancers
Charity events are different. My company does one charity and one community event a year for free. the rest of the time, we are either paid or we don't dance. As long as we continue to devalue each other and ourselves, we have no right to expect the general public to treat us better.Haflas usually mean a dancer pays to dance here but they are often just a matter of paying for food and covering rent. Even performance platforms can mean a dance for free...the one we hope to do in the winter is a charitable enterprise.
Prestige and joy do not pay the bills. Once in awhile is one thing, but many dancers have a steady diet of prestige and joy. It gives a bad message about us to those who can get us for free at the drop of a hat. My company and I rarely are asked to dance at other dancers' events because we expect to be paid, but it DOES happen now and again and that is good enough for us. If any of the people putting on those events grace our stage, they know they will be paid, and we expect the same courtesy.Theatre platforms usually are held to give opportunity and promote not pay as are cultural events that exist on grants and fund raising and apart from headliners, dancers will do it for prestige the joy of it.
How do professionals who get paid feel about dancers who dance for the love of it? I hope that did not sound snide, because I am asking it as a serious and respectful question. Here in the States, dancing for free is one of the issues that keeps the public from taking us seriously as professional entertainers.Commercial and corporate events are one of the few ways to get paid herearties, weddings,promotions of goods and services etc.
few dancers of my age over here get paid. I have been paid for a few corporate events and a pop video and the rest have to be for the love of it.
If not for my husband's good job, I would be living very frugally indeed. The end result would be that I would probably stop doing anything for free at all so that I could make ends meet. As of 17 years ago, I have done nothing to earn money that is not involved with Middle Eastern dance. It is my career and my livelihood. There are some few dancers who have managed to get rich, but I would be living somewhere just above poverty level if I lived by myself.I bet if you got all the full time UK belly dancers togther, it would need a very small conference room. And even they will have a finger in many pies. Even very talented and well known dancers here inevitably have a "day job".
Teaching is probably the only regularly reliable way to earn a crust with belly dancing and you won't get to be a millionaire that way either.
I know a local teacher gave a class for heavy women and those with physical issues. It wasn't one of her usual offerings; I think it was by special request of an already existing group. I heard nothing but rave reviews about her teaching, and the tenor of the class.
And I've signed up for a "Fat Woman" class before, just not in belly dance. Frankly, I appreciated the option.
I doubt calling skinny dancers names will help anything.[/QUOTE]
I don't need special help or special classes because I'm fat. I'd be offended if someone suggested I go. Being a separatist doesn't help people integrate.
I think there are many people who carry on working when they are past 40 but they have usually established themselves as teachers and performers whilst young. Performance does dry up when you get to a certain age for most. That does not mean your career is over of course.
Sooner or later ones performance is not as good as it once was and realising that is not always easy. I hope someone does me a favour and wispers in my ear when the time comes.
As for plastic surgury.. I am one of those who will never get tired of being pissed off at women having to go under the knife to feel better about themselves. Sorry if people dont like it but how many women, including me, would turn down a free nip and tuck? what a disgrace... we are truly moving backwards.
Rat poison injected into our faces to stop wrinkles! I hate myself for allowing any thought of this disgusting medical and financial abuse entering my thoughts and even considering it.. which I do, as i am subject to this disgracefull brainwashing as the next. A week on a refugee camp should sort that out. Rant over.
I suppose you have to be practical in this way idf either you have no brains or you come from a country were there are little opportunities for women. Otherwise what is the exuse? most women I know in my life are self sufficient and always have been.Absolutely not. There is nothing wrong in anyone wishing they had a magic wand to give them a nice body, It is the whole scene of plastic surgury I detest. People making themselves rich out of others insecurities. People spending money for a bigger dick or breasts when people need life saving operations. Carving yourself up unless you really have to is a sign of madness.I feel this way also but if I had a magic wand to lift my boobs and flatten my belly I would take it. Does it make me a hypocrite, yeah probably.
I have those mad thoughts too.
I wonder how much of this is our own making? Women have always been prized for how they look and for being sexually attractive, if we accept this as our only role, what happens to us when our youth and beauty go - which they will, do we become non-persons? Our only value we place on ourselves is how foxy we are?
Yes, seems that way. I am young enough to remember a time when older women were thought of as sexy without having to go for surgury and look like Pamela Andersons Granny.
What was the Marilyn Monroe film where she gets the rich fiancee and her father in law to be questions her motives. She admits his money is attractive but how is that any different than a man taking a pretty wife, she's being practical TBH I'm not sure of the point I'm making, I just wanted to say it
I don't think it's a matter of no brains. I see a practical balance. We (not all) look down at young women who marry older rich/successful guys and call her a gold digger. They are both getting what they want. Her money/status/security, he gets a dolly bird for his, ahem, ego.I suppose you have to be practical in this way idf either you have no brains or you come from a country were there are little opportunities for women. Otherwise what is the exuse? most women I know in my life are self sufficient and always have been.
QUOTE=Eve;80532]I don't think it's a matter of no brains. I see a practical balance. We (not all) look down at young women who marry older rich/successful guys and call her a gold digger. They are both getting what they want. Her money/status/security, he gets a dolly bird for his, ahem, ego.
He might get what he wants but I have known one or two to do this and it has back fired big time on the women. A life time of misery can be in store.Not every woman wants to be a strident Germaine Greer type.
And we go on about genital mutilation... some bloody people pay for it!Did you see that bizarre programme on ch5 about weird plastic surgery? The things you can get bleached and tucked these days is amazing....Now I know some people do have medical issues down below but I've never thought it needed to look prettier, neater or bleach my arse.
[/QUOTE]Sorry for going off topic.ray:
Ha ha.. me too. Lets all love our brown ass holes![/QUOTE][
He might get what he wants but I have known one or two to do this and it has back fired big time on the women. A life time of misery can be in store.
It is deeper than no brains, it is brainwashing and it has nothing to do with MS Greer and her generation. Footballers wives etc. YUK. Money is marvelous but it does not buy you happiness. When you have none it is everything, when you have it you realsie it is nothing.
And we go on about genitle mutilation... some bloody people pay for it!
What is that all about? who wants to make their ass hole look more attrractive? for what? to attract more people there? heavens above.
I am by no means a raving feminist but I do have a thinking a questioning mind.
Cant help that, I wish more young women would question what they want.
All my three daughters moan about wanting a nip and tuck and all 3 are very attractive... it drives me nuts. They have not got any financial security but say they are saving for boob jobs. Then we have A'ishas daughter who cant pay for surgury and health care she needs for real problems. See where I am coming from??