Question about approach to male belly dancers

[Marta_Habibi]

Hello I don't know have You ever wondered on what factors depends perceiving male belly dancers? I think that the most tolerant are people whose cultural background is associated with culture of Middle East and Africa? What is Your opinion about it? are there any different factors?:think:

 

[Zorba]

I think most of it is dependent upon the particular male dancer involved. How does he come across on stage? Is he "real", or a caricature of so-called "femininity" or even worse, "masculinity"? Really, its just like any other dancer - except for audience expectations. Tarik likes to say that he has to prove himself EVERY single time he sets foot on stage - he's right. A dancer proves her/himself by being themselves, no fakiness. An audience can pick up a fake a mile away...

 

[lizaj]

Hello I don't know have You ever wondered on what factors depends perceiving male belly dancers? I think that the most tolerant are people whose cultural background is associated with culture of Middle East and Africa? What is Your opinion about it? are there any different factors?:think:

I am not sure about your second statement. Europeans and Americans seem more ready to accept male dancers from what I gather.
I have seen male Turkish oriental dancers in tourist areas and they seem to be accepted there but in Egypt I have never seen oriental dance done by a man although I believe you will see dancers like Khaled and Tito at the festivals. These are attended by many dancers from the West, Oz, Japan etc
The only male dancers I have seen in Egypt and Tunisia and Morocco have been folkloric in style.
Many belly dancers seem ready to accept men as they wish to give equal opportunities to men to enjoy performing this dance, others think as far as men are concerned performing should be left to woemn. Both men and women of course engage in social dancing and folkloric dance in the ME and North Africa. If you look back on this forum you will read a lot of discussion.

 

[ababalond]

i've only been pursing BD since August 09, and was never really self conscious of being masculine or feminine in my attitude dancing, but trying to execute the moves properly, but most teachers i've learnt from, via instructional DVD's are female and dont point out the difference (save for one), so that may influence that factor, and also what style is being taught perhaps?! i'm not learned enough to know. but in my learning now, i'm more aware of watching male dancers for nuances between masc or fem attitudes.

Personally, i try not to affect how i execute BD by my orientational/tendencies, i am always however conscious of this as a gay guy, or rather not a stereotypically straightacting guy. but have been pleasantly suprised by comment/feedback, from male pro dancers in the West on how i move, thus far that is!

but i've noticed prejudice in commentors from the ME would caught my vids, where i'm showing more as well as how what i'm not showing is dressed, and then danced similarly, but in a more traditional costume, and was pleasantly suprised when a few teachers/dancers who are men tending to be from the ME where BD runs in their family, and they commented is a positive or constructive way.

Prior to doing a dance in traditional costume and being more folkloric, the commentors were typically from the West, and mosty women, and it was interesting to observe this shift in viewers, msg's, subscribers, and friend requests, from after one upload to another.

 

[lizaj]

It's perfectly natural for women to be taught belly dance by male teachers and always has been. Indeed some of the most renowned teachers are male. One of the teachers who made the most impact on my own dance has been Khaled Mahmoud. Other teachers here in the UK are Shafeek Ibrahim and Ozgen Ozgec. So the reverse as a male dancer you will no doubt be taught by women. The moves are ..the moves they will just look different on different bodies and that applies I suppose to not just gender.
Apart from the pleasure of watching dancers like Khaled and Tito, my "prejudices" (if you can call them that- I had just never considered the idea of men dancing "orientale") about men dancing vanished listening to Shafeek at a symposium in Liverpool."Men have taught, organised, choreographed, inspired, promoted this dance so....we'd like to do it please"(my translation)

 

[Zorba]

i've only been pursing BD since August 09, and was never really self conscious of being masculine or feminine in my attitude dancing, but trying to execute the moves properly, but most teachers i've learnt from, via instructional DVD's are female and dont point out the difference ...

Two points:

1) There are no differences between male and female Belly Dancing - as 'Aunt Rocky' says, the movement vocabulary is the movement vocabulary. These movements do come out a bit different on different people. In other words, don't worry about it - your dance will come out as YOU, as it should.

2) Many, many well known male "Belly" dancers are actually folkloric dancers. Nothing wrong with that, just sayin'. There's less controversy in the folkloric styles...

 

[khanjar]

Because I dance, it sometimes comes up as topic of conversation in the pub after a fair few jars, when in that state the barriers are down, the men that ridicule and say they don't like to see male dancers of any kind it seems they have a little insecurity about males that move, for it can be viewed as something that evokes things inside of them that they are uncomfortable with, for they are unable to seperate sexuality from art. They cannot view and enjoy the view without it meaning something to them, this I understand is from ages of brain washing, a brain washing used to guard a male from what they feel and cannot cope with because they have received no education in matters of feeling beyond touch. I find this attitude very sad and I believe males that adopt it are denying themselves the right to be a natural human.

I did wonder if this was the same case in the Moslem states, where males dancing is frowned upon.

To understand, my country Britain, we have also endured centuries of religious instruction where dancing was considered pagan and there not encouraged, those that came later, the experimenters of the Victorian period found their new freedom but questioned their feelings and there came the attitude that men dancing beyond the accepted societal ballroom stiff leg was not wanted because it hacked at male insecurity, the need to appear manly.

But from a male that dances point of view, the moves we learn, there is no difference, except sometimes it s suggested males might find a certain move easier if they untuck their spine, I tend to agree, as having in the past had a major back injury, the new move does not aggravate the problem. Also I am finding I am learning and becoming better at isolations that involve the upper body, often muscle driven isolations, so I can conclude though the dance moves are the same, our individual physiologies dictate how that move comes across to a viewer, this is the case across the male female divide and the difference between males and males, females and females. It is what I believe makes one public dancer a favourite to one and another favourite to another, we all dance differently and each appeal to each.

 

[Pirika Repun]

These are Tito's interviws and he talks about himself as male dancer.



This interview is not so clear on sound....

 

[Zorba]

.... except sometimes it s suggested males might find a certain move easier if they untuck their spine....

I have found the exact opposite to be true - on MY body, at least. If your source is that oft-quoted article by "Stephan", its bunk - pure bunk. Tarik agrees.

But with this said, what has YOUR experience been? Mine has been that I can't execute side-to-side hip movements correctly - or safely - with an un-tucked pelvis. The movements twist and my lower back tweaks. When I tuck, these problems go away...

 

[khanjar]

I think I tend to just do the move, not think about where my spine is, as with me, I believe what is comfortable has got to be the right way. I do find though, when I consciously try to think of my spine position, I mess up the move, for I can only think of one thing at a time. I wonders here about what you said about Stephan, who is he ? For I got my information elsewhere.

 

[Zorba]

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the original article:

Masculine Belly Dance

Its quoted as gospel all over the 'net, I even once found it translated into Russian. Its mostly bunk, especially the part about pelvic tuck, but it just won't "go away". Apparently, Tarik has met the author - and he's apparently NOT a dancer...

 

[khanjar]

Well, if that is the case, he is not a dancer, then as far as I am concerned, he does not know what he is talking about, for I believe you have to do it to know how to do it.

I wonders, if this is likened to a Gospel all over the net, perhaps the call should come from all those that read and take his words as such, should ask to see him dance what he prescribes for others, let him demonstrate his instructions, as there is no better instructor than seeing it done.

Otherwise until he proves the worth of his instructions, he is doing no more than spilling mis information which the larger belly dance community should be aware of and seek to stem as it is yet again more of what is ruining this art.

We just need a challenger now.

 

[Zorba]

he is doing no more than spilling mis information which the larger belly dance community should be aware of and seek to stem as it is yet again more of what is ruining this art.

Yep.

That's why I decry the darn thing every time I see someone quoting it...