"SULTANS OF RAQS"International MALE Oriental Show

Eshta

New member
If it were a case where EVERY show they did was just for men, then I would agree with you because that would be exclusionary. There is a reason why they are doing what they are doing.
And just a little bit weird, too.

We get people phoning us to ask if it's "ok" if they bring their boyfriend/(male) friend/husband/brother etc to our monthly hafla, and I find this absolutely baffling & antisocial to think that there are haflas that close their doors to men, as if to treat them like marauding vikings who are likely to be driven beserk by the sight of any naked female flesh & go on a rampage! Puhlease!

Come on guys, please don't get personal with this! I really respect the opinions of the posters in this thread & have learnt loads from your exchanges but this is getting painful to read. Please kiss & make up :pray:!
 

Suheir

New member
We get people phoning us to ask if it's "ok" if they bring their boyfriend/(male) friend/husband/brother etc to our monthly hafla, and I find this absolutely baffling & antisocial to think that there are haflas that close their doors to men, as if to treat them like marauding vikings who are likely to be driven beserk by the sight of any naked female flesh & go on a rampage! Puhlease!
Yes, I've seen "women only" haflas advertised. Bizarre. Like they're the female equivalent of a male sweat lodge. :lol:
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
And just a little bit weird, too.

We get people phoning us to ask if it's "ok" if they bring their boyfriend/(male) friend/husband/brother etc to our monthly hafla, and I find this absolutely baffling & antisocial to think that there are haflas that close their doors to men, as if to treat them like marauding vikings who are likely to be driven beserk by the sight of any naked female flesh & go on a rampage! Puhlease!

Come on guys, please don't get personal with this! I really respect the opinions of the posters in this thread & have learnt loads from your exchanges but this is getting painful to read. Please kiss & make up :pray:!
Sweetie, if you like, I have no problem discussing the issue with you, even if you don't agree. I can respect that. I can even respect and understand a person who doesn't particularly like watching male dancers, believe me, I do. What I can't abide is a stubborn refusal to see the perspective of another individual and resorting to childish tactics. This thread really was not the place to start a row. I was meant to share information about an event in the community plain and simple. I think we need to support our brothers and sisters when they take the initiative to create events and venues. so in keeping with the spirit the thread was intended.....

Considering the total lack of support and respect that dancers in general have to put up with in many Middle Eastern Establishments, do you think the way to go is for dancers to create our own events and venues?
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Yes, I've seen "women only" haflas advertised. Bizarre. Like they're the female equivalent of a male sweat lodge. :lol:
.......Soooo should salome be called out on hosting a sexist forum because she has a section that deals only with male dancers? Is that excluding female dancers???
 

Suheir

New member
.......Soooo should salome be called out on hosting a sexist forum because she has a section that deals only with male dancers? Is that excluding female dancers???
It would be if female dancers were prohibited from reading the messages or posting! ;)
 

taheya

New member
I actually think this show is a great idea. In my opinion, it's kind of akin to having historically Black colleges and universities and Black sororities and fraternities. When we weren't accepted in other places or were the extremely rare minority, we created our own venues for our own enjoyment and edification. Good for them - I hope the show is a resounding success!:clap:
Here here:clap: Bellydance has evolved from the golden era. I agree with Tarik and thought his example of Tito was an excellent one. He is a fabulous dancer- why is he not dancing in Cairo? Because it is still perceived as a female dominated profession. I was so please to see that clip of him performing at Nile Group which is a start to breaking down the barriers that male performers face. Things are changing and whether you like it or not Aisha sometimes radical measures have to be taken and I think it is a great idea to have an all male event and will probably assit in 'normalising' male performers in the eyes of the general public. Once the general public are more used to seeing male performers and are accepted as artists regardless of their gender then mixed events displaying talented dancers would probably be more appropriate. However, I feel the male dance community do need to do something like this and Kayammer and others organising this event are to be congratulated and I hope it leads to male performers being accepted more in our dance and being judged on their talent and ability rather than their sex.
 

PrinceKayammer

New member
I think that male dancers may be everything but not sexist for sure after what they have been through.I remember myself going to workshops with 100 women with weird looks and this is no good!Does a male belly dance show make any woman feel this way?
 

Moon

New member
Although an event with male as well as female dancers (and audience) will be nicest ofcourse, currently that often means there are only 1 or 2 males and 10 females or so. This often leads to female audience going all "crazy" because oh look, a male dancer!

I think it's a good idea to have this all male event, so the male dancers can show the audience what they really can do without being all great and special just because they're males.

Good luck with the event, Serkan, and please post pictures and/or videos afterwards :D
 
Finally I'm back.I was busy for the show.Now almost everything is ready:)
Thank you Moon,Tarik,Mark,Kayammer,Chrisshanty....and others.:)I'm totaaly agree with you!!!
I don't understand you Aisha what you want????Just I organize one MALE SHOW and you are making big deal of it.Its was my dream this show.But I never,ever think like your way of thinking.When I want to organize this show I never think about sexistim.When I perform in other shows/festivals with 20-50 female dancers I never think why here 99% female ,why only one or twoo male dancers.I don't have this problem.I think you have it!!!I think you (and who thinking like you) must start to think about dance.JUST DANCE.Dosen't mather about MALE OR FEMALE!!!Look only good dancer or not.(even this also can be change for one person to other!!!) but Let stop to talking about MALE DANCERS OR FEMALE DNACERS.I think this is not importand.
Haa ok I'm organizing Male show but not for against to female dancers.Every year I organize big show also with female and male dancers together also.Just the idea like other members write we will dance on this show just for dance.Not be in speacial in between 20 female dancers.Because last time I saw in internet one "male dancer"(I have shame to say he is male dancer!!!!:mad:) and he is dancing in Rakkasah festival.And you can hear woman how they screming for him.And sory to say this he is TERRIBLE DANCER!!!!!:mad: Just because he was male dancer there.But in my show "SULTANS OF RAQS" will be not like that.Beacuse there people will see which is beter which is not!!!!They will look to quality of dance.And they will understand Oriental Dance is not Stiriptes or something else.
Since I start to dance in Belgium I was only one/first male belly dancer.Its was advantage but on same time desadvantage.When I came to stage people was shok first :shok:(like what is this???:D)an than they start to think when I'll start to take of my costume:rolleyes:But all this years they start to learn Bellydance/Oriental dance is not stiriptes and we are (Male Dancers) NOT ALIEN!!!!
I hope with this show more and more people in europe(all round the world) will have beter idea about Oriental dance.They will understand this is art.
Please don't get me wrong I have same thinking about female dancers also.I don't like people think this is just for sexy dance.must be prety girls show they body sexy way (Like BDSS)....NO WAY!!!
I'm also against to some dancers who using that way!!!! I always say to my student you can dance sensuel way,feminen and everything but please not cheap way.Don't let people think this is just sexy dance.Show them this is ART!!!!!
I think since I'm member of orientaldancer.net first time I write that long comment:)Because I never trust my poor English.I hope you don't mind to this ,when you read.
And don't wory about show pictures and videos.I'll do soon as possible after the show :cool:
After this first show I'll start to work about second one.I hope Tarik and Mark and David We can see you here also
Many Oriental Greetings and respect to everybody

Serkan.
Belly Dancer Serkan ::: www.serkan.be
www.dedanstent.com
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Dear Taheya and Moon:

Yes you understand exactly what I and the other guys were trying to say. As Serkan just mentioned, he DOES produce shows that are mostly female. Quite honestly, I don't understand the fear that A'isha talks about. The fact of the matter is that male dancers CAN NOT exist in this field WITHOUT women. This is just a fact. Unless over night men are going to start beating down the doors to learn the dance as if it will guarantee a bigger erection, it ain't gonna happen! Who do we depend on for our students? WOMEN. Who do we depend on for the majority of our audiences when we do productions? WOMEN. Given the fact that like all other dance fields, men are a minority, let me say that louder MEN ARE A MINORITY, who are we going to depend on for performers? WOMEN. If we have a marketable career in the general public, for parties, weddings etc, who are we dependent on? WOMEN!

A'isha and people of her mindset act as if there's going to be massive hoards of knuckle dragging vikings in hip belts invading the stages and nightclubs of the world and force women off the stage. Get real! It ain't never going to happen. Women have not been hurt by the inclusion of men in any other dance field so why would it happen with us?

For example, look at Hula. It had gotten to the point where it was done on stage EXCLUSIVELY by women. When they decided to reclaim their culture men started coming bak to it. A very few at first. They were teased and taunted and called sissies and gay by other NATIVE HAWAIIANS. Why? BEcause they had been use to seeing it performed by women for so many generations, they assumed it was a woman's thing. Now there are almost as many men in Hula as there are women. Interesting thing is that when they perform in competitions they are segregated, men only women only. Usually a school will have a women's division and a men's division, but there are schools that are only male and others that are only female. Has this hurt female Hula dancers? NOOOO! Hula is growing in popularity around the world. So any fears are irrational and unfounded. FEAR=False-Evidence-Appearing-Real!
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Finally I'm back.I was busy for the show.Now almost everything is ready:)
Thank you Moon,Tarik,Mark,Kayammer,Chrisshanty....and others.:)I'm totaaly agree with you!!!
I don't understand you Aisha what you want????Just I organize one MALE SHOW and you are making big deal of it.Its was my dream this show.But I never,ever think like your way of thinking.When I want to organize this show I never think about sexistim.When I perform in other shows/festivals with 20-50 female dancers I never think why here 99% female ,why only one or twoo male dancers.I don't have this problem.I think you have it!!!I think you (and who thinking like you) must start to think about dance.JUST DANCE.Dosen't mather about MALE OR FEMALE!!!Look only good dancer or not.(even this also can be change for one person to other!!!) but Let stop to talking about MALE DANCERS OR FEMALE DNACERS.I think this is not importand.
Haa ok I'm organizing Male show but not for against to female dancers.Every year I organize big show also with female and male dancers together also.Just the idea like other members write we will dance on this show just for dance.Not be in speacial in between 20 female dancers.Because last time I saw in internet one "male dancer"(I have shame to say he is male dancer!!!!:mad:) and he is dancing in Rakkasah festival.And you can hear woman how they screming for him.And sory to say this he is TERRIBLE DANCER!!!!!:mad: Just because he was male dancer there.But in my show "SULTANS OF RAQS" will be not like that.Beacuse there people will see which is beter which is not!!!!They will look to quality of dance.And they will understand Oriental Dance is not Stiriptes or something else.
Since I start to dance in Belgium I was only one/first male belly dancer.Its was advantage but on same time desadvantage.When I came to stage people was shok first :shok:(like what is this???:D)an than they start to think when I'll start to take of my costume:rolleyes:But all this years they start to learn Bellydance/Oriental dance is not stiriptes and we are (Male Dancers) NOT ALIEN!!!!
I hope with this show more and more people in europe(all round the world) will have beter idea about Oriental dance.They will understand this is art.
Please don't get me wrong I have same thinking about female dancers also.I don't like people think this is just for sexy dance.must be prety girls show they body sexy way (Like BDSS)....NO WAY!!!
I'm also against to some dancers who using that way!!!! I always say to my student you can dance sensuel way,feminen and everything but please not cheap way.Don't let people think this is just sexy dance.Show them this is ART!!!!!
I think since I'm member of orientaldancer.net first time I write that long comment:)Because I never trust my poor English.I hope you don't mind to this ,when you read.
And don't wory about show pictures and videos.I'll do soon as possible after the show :cool:
After this first show I'll start to work about second one.I hope Tarik and Mark and David We can see you here also
Many Oriental Greetings and respect to everybody

Serkan.
Belly Dancer Serkan ::: www.serkan.be
www.dedanstent.com
Your English is not perfect, but at least you can express yourself better than most of us can in either German or French or any other language for that matter. Like I said before, the majority of us understand what you are doing and we congratulate you:clap:. The other thing about the show is that you have all types of men, some are feminine some are masculine. As I've said before, I do have a bias when it comes to feminine male dancers. I'm not saying it's right. It's my issue and I have to come to terms with it. Its based on my fear of male dancers being rejected because of homophobia, but that's another issue. However, by presenting all the different types of men in the dance, you also show that not all male dancers are the same, so it is another step towards achieving understanding about who and what we are as performers and individuals. Much success and I would be very honored to participate next year.
 

Stella Zahir

New member
Hello to everyone!I just still have not understand what's the big matter to all this???there is a Male Show organized by an ecxellent teacher and performer and i happened to know 3 of the participants.I dance many years and i do not really care if it is Male show or Female or both.It is just a show...
Why can we just enjoy it??Prince Kayammer i am sure we will give again the best of him.Serkan has a unique style and Malek of coures he will get all of us on fire!!!!!!
So....Good luck to all!:D
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Hello to everyone!I just still have not understand what's the big matter to all this???there is a Male Show organized by an ecxellent teacher and performer and i happened to know 3 of the participants.I dance many years and i do not really care if it is Male show or Female or both.It is just a show...
Why can we just enjoy it??Prince Kayammer i am sure we will give again the best of him.Serkan has a unique style and Malek of coures he will get all of us on fire!!!!!!
So....Good luck to all!:D
:clap:
 

artemisiadances

New member
Hey Serkan

congratulations with getting this on the rails!!!

i'm sorry i'm going to miss it (as an audience member :D), as i've got two gigs that day and am still in the middle of moving house

see you at the Sharon Kihara show

Artemisia


to everyone else, i just struggled through the thread
re: the discussion. this would worry me maybe if serkan ONLY ever organised shows with men... he doesnt, he has plenty of "mixed" ones too ;-)
i just saw it as "ah, clever markering, why not".
though some of the issues raised here about men dancing are interesting to ponder... but in my eyes not really related to this show and serkans project.
 

Jamil

New member
Hi Serkan
i just want to congratulate you on such a fantastic event in which you are organising.

you have my greatest respect and i wish you every success with it that you truely deserve! :)

Just make sure u dont hold back and give it 10000%. hehe

with love
-=Jamil=-
 
Thank you Jamil;)

Don't wory I'm not gonna give up just because of somebody!!!!! This person can think want she want or they can say what they want but they can't change the true!!!Or let say like that THEY CAN'T STOP ME :cool:

Like in your case.I think you are great dancer!!! (Even I didn't understand why was this topic???) Don't listen them continue your way.I know how much motivations you have!!.Please don't give up.If they don't want to see you they don't have to wacht.Right??

And thanks to everybody you was in my side for this show;)

Many Oriental Greetings.

Serkan.
Belly Dancer Serkan ::: www.serkan.be
www.dedanstent.com
 

Nila

New member
I saw the show!!

Thank you Jamil;)

Don't wory I'm not gonna give up just because of somebody!!!!! This person can think want she want or they can say what they want but they can't change the true!!!Or let say like that THEY CAN'T STOP ME :cool:

Like in your case.I think you are great dancer!!! (Even I didn't understand why was this topic???) Don't listen them continue your way.I know how much motivations you have!!.Please don't give up.If they don't want to see you they don't have to wacht.Right??

And thanks to everybody you was in my side for this show;)

Many Oriental Greetings.

Serkan.
Belly Dancer Serkan ::: www.serkan.be
www.dedanstent.com

And it was terrific!!!
Very professionial show with high quality dancers!
Thank you Serkan, Malek, Prince Kayammer, Dansçi Ahmet, Zadiel, Rachid Alexander and Mr. Habieb!!
There were no screeming women for bad dancing performers (there simply were no bad performers there!). But all the dancers could experience good to very good response from the public. They all were very highly appriciated!
I do hope Serkan will organise an all men show again. Congratulations with your perfect organised show:clap:. Cannot wait for the dvd to come out...
Prince Kayammer I enjoyed your workshops very much. Thank you!!
Nila (Mireille)
 

Maria_Aya

New member
Just came back from Athens airport where I met Prince Kayammer since he had a 4 hour break between flights.
Saw the photos and he told me how it went.
Looks that you had a fantastic show !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mabrouk Twingo !!!
Be sure when you come in Greece i'll be first line screaming !!!
kissesssssssssss and congrats

Maria Aya :)
 

chryssanthi sahar

New member
Congratulation Serkan:clap: I was sure, that it was going to be a great show:D I just read in an information mail that I got from Zadiel, that you are planning to do the show also in Greece? When? Are you also planning to do it also in Germany? Please let me know.
 

Nila

New member
Congratulation Serkan:clap: I was sure, that it was going to be a great show:D I just read in an information mail that I got from Zadiel, that you are planning to do the show also in Greece? When? Are you also planning to do it also in Germany? Please let me know.

I was also in Zadiel's workshop and that was a very good one too!!! Had a lot of fun there....
In fact, I did all 4 the workshops (Malek, Dansçi Ahmet, Zadiel and Prince Kayammer) and I was totally broken afterwards, but very, very satisfied.
4 very good and completely different workshops from highly skilled teachers and a great show - what does one want to have more in one weekend? Lucky, lucky, lucky me (and others who took the full program).

If they go on tour and you can go seeing this show, you won't regret it!!!:D
 
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