The Crystal Ball Thread

lizaj

New member
There's been a lot of interesting discussion on th "Gothic BD " thread and other s about the changes there have been in the past couple of decades in style, fashions, fad, attitudes in belly dance
So what point are we at?
And where do you see it going?
What schisms?
What deliniations?
What is hopeful?
What is damaging?
How far are we straying from Cairo and Istanbul?
How are things changing in the place of origin?
How are things changing in the West? In the uSA In Europe? In Austalia? In the Far East?
How far are we straying from California for that matter...or rather how far do you think we will go?
 

Kharis

New member
There's been a lot of interesting discussion on th "Gothic BD " thread and other s about the changes there have been in the past couple of decades in style, fashions, fad, attitudes in belly dance
So what point are we at?
And where do you see it going?
What schisms?
What deliniations?
What is hopeful?
What is damaging?
How far are we straying from Cairo and Istanbul?
How are things changing in the place of origin?
How are things changing in the West? In the uSA In Europe? In Austalia? In the Far East?
How far are we straying from California for that matter...or rather how far do you think we will go?
So many questions..so little time... blleeaeeahhhhaggghhg
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
There's been a lot of interesting discussion on th "Gothic BD " thread and other s about the changes there have been in the past couple of decades in style, fashions, fad, attitudes in belly dance
So what point are we at?
And where do you see it going?
What schisms?
What deliniations?
What is hopeful?
What is damaging?
How far are we straying from Cairo and Istanbul?
How are things changing in the place of origin?
How are things changing in the West? In the uSA In Europe? In Austalia? In the Far East?
How far are we straying from California for that matter...or rather how far do you think we will go?
Wow! I don't know how to answer all this. But what is hopeful is the simple fact that so many people want to learn this dance and it is found in so many countries now, It cannot die out if this continues to happen. I believe there will always be those who will continue to keep the 'traditional' aspects. The following is too great for it to disappear or be eaten up by the various fusions etc.

As far as I can tell in Australia there is a hard core of far reaching set of 'traditionalists' ( as far as it can be when outside of the land of the dance's birth. and yes there is also a strong core of fusionistas and tribalistas ... but the traditionalists just keep on keeping on and growing in number.
~Mosaic
 

lizaj

New member
Wow! I don't know how to answer all this. But what is hopeful is the simple fact that so many people want to learn this dance and it is found in so many countries now, It cannot die out if this continues to happen. I believe there will always be those who will continue to keep the 'traditional' aspects. The following is too great for it to disappear or be eaten up by the various fusions etc.

As far as I can tell in Australia there is a hard core of far reaching set of 'traditionalists' ( as far as it can be when outside of the land of the dance's birth. and yes there is also a strong core of fusionistas and tribalistas ... but the traditionalists just keep on keeping on and growing in number.
~Mosaic
Fusion is certainly growing here but I wonder if there is a growth of "traditionalists" keen to carry on learning along side it.
I think the split between "belly dancers" and fusion dancers is widening and the groups are more clearly defined. So similar?
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Yes fusion is very popular with the younger set, but many of them begin their dance ing by learning the 'traditional' dance and some move onto fusion leaving behind the trad, others learn both. Also I have noticed others move away from fusion styles when they feel they have 'outgrown' it and move back too or into traditional BD.

The history side of Raqs Sharki, is not at the forefront for many, but if they travel to Egypt the historical aspects stir, and with travel so easy these days, I do believe the traditionalists will survive - will it survive in the long run inside the ME I think so as dancing is as much a part of them as breathing is.

The Western world will continue to breakaway with various fusion styles ( that is the nature of the western world) but those dances will become totally unrelated to Raqs Sharki, and those who feel the call of the traditional will continue to learen that.

Trad Raks is just like any other cultural dances and as long as countries maintain their cultures and traditions their dances will remain an integral part of those cultures. I believe Cultural dances are an integral part of societies, and popularity for the masses may wax and wane, but will continue to inspire, so yes the ME dances will survive until the end of time.:D
~Mosaic
 

Aziyade

Well-known member
We're in a huge state of flux right now because of the information explosion and the internet.

Think about it -- 15 years ago, you had to hunt down print magazines just to get an idea of who was having a workshop. And you had the "telephone" game where what WAS taught at workshops was gradually passed around the country, with a gradual degredation of that information.

Video footage of Egyptian and Turkish dancers in 1991, when I got my first video, was next to nonexistent. What we had was grainy and dark, and very hard to watch, let alone learn from. Forget learning any region-specific ethnic dance. Who the heck cared about seeing Baba Karam, even if they knew what it was.

Now I can do a 2-second internet search and find darn near anything. I can see darn near anything on Youtube. Today's dancers have access to amazing amounts of information and music -- but as a result, they feel like they have to do something really DIFFERENT in order to distinguish themselves. Thus the fusion boom.


I predict a resurgence of interest in ethnic dance. If we get one celebrity dancer to start promoting, say, Ouled Nail dance, you'll start seeing workshops, music, articles, theses, costumes pop up practically overnight. Look what Ranya Renee has done for Baladi dance! It's all people are talking about! I counted 4 baladi workshops in my region in 2009-2010 -- and that's 3 more than we've had in the last 10 years!

A lot of what dancers will gravitate towards in the future is going to depend on the music. We had a lot of interest in Bollywood and Bhangra dance once the music started becoming popular. Maybe Karim Nagi will spark a passion in the community for Saidi music, and cane dance workshops will prevail.

The biggest complaint I've heard about the Superstars show is that it doesn't contain baladi and folkloric dance. I think that's what people are really thirsting for now, and not just us old farts. :)
 

Amulya

Moderator
As far as I can tell in Australia there is a hard core of far reaching set of 'traditionalists' ( as far as it can be when outside of the land of the dance's birth. and yes there is also a strong core of fusionistas and tribalistas ... but the traditionalists just keep on keeping on and growing in number.
~Mosaic

I've got the feeling that there are lots of communities in Oz that are not in contact with each other. It's pretty difficult because the country is so vast! Where I live it's pretty much traditional only and a few ATS dancers, I don't fit in either category. I try to keep an eye on events, but they are very rare. It would be great if we could have events in our aria where there would be performances of different styles to bring people more together, but it's already hard enough for dancers to organize an event at all.

I myself split my performances in 2 categories: ones that I call belly dance, because it's still belly dance (or actually quite much so) and stuff I just call fusion, because I think it strays from the orinigal stuff.

I wish there were workshops from oversees dancers closeby, but whenever there are any workshops they are so far away.

Mosaic, do you know what happened to Anabella's site? That was helpful because of all the listings of workshops and events.
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
I've got the feeling that there are lots of communities in Oz that are not in contact with each other. It's pretty difficult because the country is so vast! Where I live it's pretty much traditional only and a few ATS dancers, I don't fit in either category. I try to keep an eye on events, but they are very rare. It would be great if we could have events in our aria where there would be performances of different styles to bring people more together, but it's already hard enough for dancers to organize an event at all.

I myself split my performances in 2 categories: ones that I call belly dance, because it's still belly dance (or actually quite much so) and stuff I just call fusion, because I think it strays from the orinigal stuff.

I wish there were workshops from oversees dancers closeby, but whenever there are any workshops they are so far away.

Mosaic, do you know what happened to Anabella's site? That was helpful because of all the listings of workshops and events.
Yes that is true, WA seems to have a big contingent of tribal dancers, but there is a steady group of Traditionalists, Sydney area seems to have an even mix of tribal, fusion and Trad. melbourne is much the same, but I think the traditional and many Egyptian style is predominant in the melbourne area. Country areas seems to lean towards tribal. I am not sure but I believe Tasmania is more traditional. Queensland/Brisbane from what i know is a mix. But they get quite a few Egyptian dancers there every year for the 'Winter warmup sessions, so there must be a strong core of traditionalists. I haven't travelled to other areas for WS's because as Aulya said the country is vast, and it is not that cheap to fly to other states/cities and you have the cost of hotels/food & workshops. I had hoped to go to the winter warm up this june just gone as Lubna & Mohamed Kazafy were the guests, but it didn't work out for me, but quite few Melbourne ladies did go up.

Rakkasah here in Melbourne every 3 months had Michelle from Cheeky girl productions as the main guest the last time. She held quite a number of different Ws's over 2 days. Club Rakkasah showcases 90% Traditional ( includes folkloric etc) & will have, fusion guest or group and sometimes tribal.

There is a lot of things going on, but it is getting to them that is the problem.

I do think Aussie tends overall to be traditionalists and baladi/folkloric is a strong part of that here in Melbourne.
~Mosaic
 

Amulya

Moderator
Exactly, who can travel that far often. Do you know good sites that list events and workshops?
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Exactly, who can travel that far often. Do you know good sites that list events and workshops?
I don't think there is just one website - there seems to be several. Most of my info comes through either friends or the Bellydance oasis magazine which I subscribe to.
The website below has links that sometimes list events in various places:
Rachel - Belly Dancer in Sydney - Links
That is about the only one I know. Most main city centres well known dancers often list events on their websites.
~Mosaic
 
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