Tribal & Traditional The similarities & differences

Rania

New member
My question is how many of the same moves are used in Tribal and Traditional? What are the similarities and differences, you can define?

I might not be the best person to explain the difference. However what, I do have knowledge of is the fact that..
Tribal is composed of dark, and Gothic style costumes. They are very elaborate with layers of jewellery, and hair ornaments such as feather, flowers etc. The moves are robotic. I don't believe, they utilize veils in any tribal preformances, correct me if i'm wrong. The music is unlike, traditonal Middle Eastern beats. Its, Experimental, Ambient New Age, I have even seen hip hop variants of tribal fusion.

Traditional appears tobe, more feminine. The moves are gracefull and elegant. Tribal was not developed in the middle eastern region. It derived from the USA.

Both breathtaking styles of dance.
 
Last edited:

Yame

New member
I think tribal style and Oriental and Oriental-based styles all share a lot of the same basic moves, what changes is the posture, the way the moves are executed, the emphasis, the usage of weight shifts, usage of stage space, facial expression, music used, how the moves connect to the music, emotional connection to the music, how often certain moves are done or not done, etc.

Then there are a lot of moves that exist in one style but not in the other, but many of these are more intermediate or advanced. I think most of the very very basics are the same. If you take one beginner tribal dancer and one beginner Oriental dancer and compare what they are doing, it'll probably be very similar. But if you take two advanced/professional dancers of these styles and compare them, they will be extremely different.

It just goes to show that what makes the dance aren't the basic moves. It's the musicality, the emphasis, the subtlety.
 

Rania

New member
I think tribal style and Oriental and Oriental-based styles all share a lot of the same basic moves, what changes is the posture, the way the moves are executed, the emphasis, the usage of weight shifts, usage of stage space, facial expression, music used, how the moves connect to the music, emotional connection to the music, how often certain moves are done or not done, etc.

Yes, that what I was wondering. some moves are portrayed differently. I have only take classes, with Egyption, and lebanese style. However I think I will take a tribal one day. I have watched many tribal preformances however.
 

SeeJaneDance

New member
Alright, first let me say that I don't dance tribal style. But I LOVE it! And every now and then the tribal instructor at our studio will come in and talk or do little mini lessons. So all of this is based on that (limited) background.

A lot of what you described is what I would consider more fusion than tribal. To me, what defines tribal is: group improv, where a leader (who may rotate) uses cues to signal certain pre-rehearsed combos that are then performed by groups of 3 or 4 or sometimes 7 and 8, with anyone not in that formation dancing in a stationary position in the back or to the side. The moves are often bigger and earthier, more often performed flat-footed (though not necessarily) and either more percussive or more serpentine, depending on the move and the context. They also use zills extensively. Their costumes are combos of black, earth tones, and jewel tones, with, like you said, lots of ornament. But not the glittery sequined ornaments of cabaret. I think there's a lot of crossover in the actual movements, but what distinguishes them is the way they're executed and accented. I see a lot less layering in tribal, but that may be my limited experience. At the same time, I've also seen a lot more traveling. And more snake arms. And as for music, I've seen a lot of tribal performed to ME music, just not like Egyptian pop, for instance. More traditional music.

I think where tribal is earthy and percussive, cabaret is lighter and more elegant. You get more elongation in the limbs, more 4/4 shimmies with layering, more expressive arms.

I also think that a lot of dancers call what they do "tribal" because they either don't know or don't like the word "fusion", and it confuses what tribal is.
 

Kashmir

New member
My question is how many of the same moves are used in Tribal and Traditional? What are the similarities and differences, you can define?

Tribal is composed of dark, and Gothic style costumes. They are very elaborate with layers of jewellery, and hair ornaments such as feather, flowers etc.
Part of the problem is which Tribal and which Traditional? If you are talking ATS - then I would not think "goth". Elaborate costumes and jewellery - yes - but turbans rather than flowers. Many ATS people get peeved that "Tribal" often contains no "real" Tribal. (Sound familar?)

Costume for traditional can vary a lot. Bra and belt - with and without fringe (my latest bedleh has no fringe and hardly any sparklies) - or a dress (my favourite). If you expand traditional it can even include a galabaya - although feathers and flowers are unlikely if you go that route I have seen traditional (orientale) dancers in bedleh with big flowers.
The moves are robotic.
I don't think I'd say that. I would say that the movement vocab has to be limited to allow the group following (better description that "improv" I think) to work. As dancers become more experienced they can expand the vocab. Again. because of the need to follow - and the use of cues - some things won't work in tribal.
Traditional appears tobe, more feminine. The moves are gracefull and elegant.
It can be feminine - or masculine - or strong - or flirty - or whatever. It depends on the dancer and the music. And again - which "traditional"? Are you including beledi in here? I assume you are not including folkloric.

So, basic vocab - yes, there is a lot of overlap. Here, students who want to learn tribal first have to do a few months of basic belly dance technique - mixing with the "traditional" students.

Differences? Concentration on getting the basic combinations automatic for group work in tribal. Personally, although I do drill and use combinations I'm always trying to get my students to come up with their own combos. Ditto I might throw in a new move or combination for a couple of weeks then forget it. Just trying to get as many different ways of moving as possible out there.

The posture in tribal is different - very different.

The interaction with the music is different - not just the use of ME music (and I know many traditional ATS dancers do use ME dervied music) but how it is danced. The musicality and purpose is different. Seems tribal often uses the beat; traditional will switch between that, the melody and the lyrics at will.

Goes away and thinks some more ... :think:
 

Ariadne

Well-known member

Yep, that's Tribal Fusion not Tribal (ATS/ITS). If you want to understand the difference between Tribal Fusion and Traditional first you need to understand the difference between Tribal (ATS/ITS) and Traditional.

This is ATS:


This is ITS:


This is Oriental:


This is what happens when you merge ATS/ITS and Oriental while adding an increased influence from world dance (including hip-hop) and music (including Industrial) hence Tribal Fusion:
 

Kjesta

New member
Tribal fusion can also be very feminine and musical, though!



Or fun and a bit goofy.



And recently there's been a lot of Balkan music used in TF, though I'm not sure if The Indigo started it or if their use of it was just my first time noticing it.
 
Last edited:

Taslin

New member
Ariadne THANK YOU! for that breakdown.

for the time being we are learining some ATS basics (as well as tradish BD basics, as always) in my class because my teacher is advancing her certification level with Rachel Brice.

It is soooooo confusing for me. I didnt even know that styles existed outside of orientale when i began my interest in BD. Its been so confusing for me at times.

I also want to admit that i used to not want to ever dance any tribal styles because i had seen so many bad examples, or particular styles that did not move me. With the exploration that ive done recently and my teacher's interest in ATS my respect and interest has been peaked...but i will always have an interest in ME culture that will keep me driven, where as the tribal community has a different sort of appeal for me and i wonder if that appeal would last...

Im finding myself more and more confused about style the longer i dance. I even took workshops w/ Rachel Brice...and was like "eh,not interested" afterward. It was seeing my teacher and some other dancers on youtube do tribal styles and dance in a way i was moved by that opened my mind to the possibility.

there is so much to learn.
 

Rania

New member
Part of the problem is which Tribal and which Traditional? If you are talking ATS - then I would not think "goth".

It can be feminine - or masculine - or strong - or flirty - or whatever. It depends on the dancer and the music. And again - which "traditional"? Are you including beledi in here? I assume you are not including folkloric.

The posture in tribal is different - very different.

ATS, as in the tribal dance wher they wear skirts simaluar to those worn in gypsy dances? Then no. However I have seen many varients of Tribal that have a gothic feel to them.

Your probably right there is no feminine belly dance styles. it is what you make it.
 

Rania

New member
Yep, that's Tribal Fusion not Tribal (ATS/ITS). If you want to understand the difference between Tribal Fusion and Traditional first you need to understand the difference between Tribal (ATS/ITS) and Traditional.

This is ATS:



Yes ATS is not dark and gothic, I did not know ATS/ITS even existed. I have only watched tribal fusion. In canton I believe the only have tribal fusion dancers creating more..tribal fusion dancers :D
 

Kashmir

New member
ATS, as in the tribal dance wher they wear skirts simaluar to those worn in gypsy dances? Then no. However I have seen many varients of Tribal that have a gothic feel to them.
ATS - (American Tribal Style) - is the base of Tribal - without that you cannot have "Tribal Fusion" - because what exactly are you fusing? I suspect much of the goth flavoured dance is neither Tribal nor Tribal fusion - just dance with an exposed belly and some undulations. In which case trying to define it is like herding cats - it can be anything.
 

Ariadne

Well-known member
ATS - (American Tribal Style) - is the base of Tribal - without that you cannot have "Tribal Fusion" - because what exactly are you fusing? I suspect much of the goth flavoured dance is neither Tribal nor Tribal fusion - just dance with an exposed belly and some undulations. In which case trying to define it is like herding cats - it can be anything.
I think that is named con-fusion. ;)

And to add to the confusion true Gothic Bellydance can be Tribal Fusion or Oriental depending on the dancer.

Thanks for posting the videos Ariadne!:clap:
You're welcome. Now that you know it exists get thee to youtube. The more ATS/ITS you watch the easier it will be for you to see the "Tribal" in Tribal fusion; the differences in stance and movement from Oriental originate there. If you cannot see any "Tribal" in a Tribal Fusion performance then it probably qualifies as one of the "anything" Kashmir was talking about.
 
Last edited:
Top