Hey Welcome and thanks for the information. Accurate info is so hard to come by .
Welcome to forum Ahmet! it is good to get a viewpoint from a person who really *is* Turkish and sees things sometimes differentlyAs Roman music you are mentioning rampi rampi but this is a very old example. Nowadays, no one dances with this music. There are alot of contemporary gypsy music.
Those teachers and dancers we have discussed here are definately the ones who "know their stuff" - maybe there can be some confusion about the terminology and maybe some of the style taught in West seems to be old fashioned or has changed during the years but it still mostly is good... and to get even some lessons of any kind of Turkish style is so rare that when some one is passionate about it then one cannot be too selective... hopefully there will come a day when Turkish style is as valued and as common as Egyptian so there would be much more selection to choose from.There people around giving gypsy dance lessons after taking 2-3 lessons themselves. Because of such people turkish gypsy dance is not thought properly. I hope those true lovers of dance are more selective from now on
Oh Super Fun!!! That's the kind of pure joy and abandonment I wish we could always bring to the dance and ummmm, about those two guys in the second, I have never seen such fast crisp shoulder shimmies *WoW*
Thanks Cerise Janan, Thanks for posting the link. I just Artemis' article and she is truly a gifted and intelligent woman. I can't wait foe her book to be published. Even if one isn't interested in Turkish style, it doesn't hurt to learn the dance from such a foremost authority.
This is the style most of the Turks dance in central Turkey (Ankara & Yozgat especially) - I like this music/dance style called Misket as it is so relaxed but at least those ladies on the clips did not show much joy in their dance... obviously those clips were from some Pavyon in Ankara and well to say it nicely those ladies are working there and not as dancers (about role of the köceks I am not so sure)... and Pavyons in Turkey are definately not the places where western visitors should go (at least not without local company) :shok:Oh Super Fun!!! That's the kind of pure joy and abandonment I wish we could always bring to the dance and ummmm, about those two guys in the second, I have never seen such fast crisp shoulder shimmies *WoW*
Tarik, this is a dance I personally do not much know about but as my hubby is from Yozgat this is also a style we are used to dance a lot at different occasions. I am not even sure about if Misket is the correct name as that is what our friends call it but I have also heard this been called Ankara Havasi (simply Ankara dance) or Ankara Oyun Havasi - actually dance of Pavyons is often referred as Oyun Havasi so there can be different nuances as common folks definately do not use zills - and spoons are not very typical either for Central Anatolian dances but I have seen them used even at country side weddings so this would be a subject I also would like to know more about...So the dance style with the spoons or zills where they are doing that basic side step is called misket? I wondered what it was called. Its very simple, but I love it, makes me want to join in the fun:dance:
The Kocheck stuff is interesting. There are tons of clips on youtube. I remember when people were saying no such thing existed any more, now they've resurfaced all over the place. I've noticed there are differences. some of them dance to davul and Zurna music, (some times the fiddle also) only, some use claranet and jumbush, (banjo), some of them dance to saz, and darbuka.
WONDERFUL!!! This was one of the most beutiful veil dances I've ever seen. Nesrin still rules:clap: Thank you so much for posting Hale Teshekür ederim arkadash.From final of the oryantal star contest
YouTube - Oryantal Star FINAL-Nesrin TopkapÄ± Dans Show by Levent Sezen
Artemis Mourat here. I will start with a confession that I hardly ever get a chance to read the forums because I am traveling more than I am home. But I just joined Oriental dancer and I am very much interested in this thread. I promise to peek in here from time to time. This is a wonderful thread and full of intelligent questions and answers. Thank you for your kind words about my workshops and my DVDs and such. If you want to know more about Turkish style and Egyptian style dance than what I can put here, you can go to my website at www.serpentine.org and click into an article that I wrote which includes a lot of information about topic. I have another article there too about skirt dancing (which is NOT Turkish). I will address some of the points that have been made on this thread...
I respectfully disagree with Chyrssanthi Saher. I like many of her posts and she is a truly remarkable authority on many things. In fact, we share some heritage and experience...My father is a Greek born in Turkey and my family was there for over 300 years so we, (in my family) are what people sometimes call "Turkish Greeks." I have been to Turkey 16 times and have done field research there and I too have danced at hundreds and hundreds of Turkish parties and at Turkish, Greek and Arabic clubs. There IS artistry and complexity and sophistication in both Turkish Oriental and Egyptian style dance and music. It is, however different in many ways. They share a great deal of history and they have cross pollinated for centuries but they are born on different continents and the lineage is different for each style of dance. The Turkish Rromany dances are the mother of Turkish Oriental dance. This cannot be denied when you trace the lineage. Unfortunately the Turkish Oriental dancers are not incorporating it into their shows as much as they once did.
As for the karsilama, the confusion may come from the fact that there are many different versions and usages for the 9/8 time signature in both Turkey and in Greece - some folkloric, some Rromany and also some Oriental. The 9/8 time signature that we grew up with in the US cabarets, has the accented beats on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9 and this is rarely heard in Turkey today. Anahid Sofian coined the expression "Cabaret Karsilama" when referring to this. What you typically hear in Turkey now is what many of us are calling the "Romany 9/8." The accented beats are on the 1, 3, 5, 7, 8. The ninth beat is present but silent. The tempo can range from very slow to lightning fast. The 9/8s are not the only rhythms that Oriental dancers have used in Turkey but they get the most attention when people are making differentiations between Turkish and Egyptian Oriental dance. The Turkish bands are not usually the big orchestras you find in Egypt. So this can explain why the music does not seem as highly complex - it is not as heavily orchestrated.
There is an explosion of good Turkish music coming from Turkey now. Tayyar Akdeniz has a new CD coming out now and it is being recorded as I write this. I am hoping he will have them for sale when he returns to the US later this month. This is an instructional music CD about Turkish dance music and also has lots of cuts quite suitable for performances and teaching. He actually teaches the rhythms for each song on the CD.
There is also confusion about the Oriental dancers and the dance style in Turkey as you see it today today. Many of them are using Arabic music and they are imitating Egyptian and even some Oriental American dance styling. There are also many foreign dancers in Turkey too, many of whom are very pretty but not particularly good dancers. Unfortunately these are often the entertainers for the tourist clubs so when Oriental dancers come to these shows in Turkey, they are confused about what good Turkish Oriental dance really is. But there are superb dancers in Turkey too. Sema Yildiz and Birgul Beray are great. Tayyar Akdeniz is a famous Folk dancer but he can teach wonderful Oriental and Rromany dance (in English too). Reyhan is becoming quite popular for teaching Rromany. Tulay Karaca is one of the very best Turkish Oriental dancers ever but she is retired. Nesrin Topkapi, is the other all time great Turkish dancer but she has retired from performing. Nesrin and Birgul are among our many teachers at our AlaTurka Dance and Music Festival in Istanbul this late August and early September (www.folktours.com...we also have Egyptian dance taught there too by Sahra Saeeda and Nourhan Sharif). Didem and Aseena are very good too but they are fusing other elements into their dance. The dance style that Eva Cernik and I perform and teach are closer to what was being performed there before this newest generation began fusing outside forms so heavily. That being said, Turkish Oriental dance has always had other elements fused into it (look at the history of Turkey and the size and scope of the Ottoman Empire to see why). It is, however, my fervent hope that the fusing does not become so extensive that the original style is lost.
I hope you find this helpful!
Artemis Mourat, MA, MSW
Interesting observations but I do not agree on most of themIn the Ottoman term,Turks explored the bellydance from some arab countries such as Egypt,Tunisia,Morocco.Because The Ottoman Empire managed these countries for a long time...
After the foundation of the republic, ''gazino'' culture started to spread in Istanbul (especially in 70's)Gazino is a restaurant and a night club where the popular turkish folk and the turkish art singers performed.Rich people was coming to these clubs.Some belly dancers performed at these clubs.Their style was the amateur imitation of the egyptian style.They attracted attention with their costumes,not with their dance...
Since the end of the 90's, ''turkish bellydance'' style has started to be clear.(sharp and big hip movements and shimmnies, bellyrols, floorworks,sharp breast figures, body vibration etc.)...
These are only my observations.